OT: Chess: Part Two

ORRFForever

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So...

Did he cheat? Any opinions?

****

Magnus tried to surprise Niemann in the opening, yet Niemann played a TOP engine move at move 9 - claiming he'd memorized 20 moves deep.

Hans played a LOT of excellent moves using little to no time - which is suspicious. It was Magnus burning through his clock.

It's not like Niemann has never cheated.
 
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ORRFForever

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Niemann got spanked by So (playing the Black pieces) after Magnus left. LOL!

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks, IF Niemann was cheating, he couldn't (and didn't) show any signs of it against So.

... his understanding of the position in the post-game interview was baffling.
You mean his lack of understanding ?

Niemann played some spectacular moves against Carlson - including f5 which is obvious once you've seen it, but, over the board, on the clock, with so much going on... not so much.
 
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ORRFForever

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^^ This is questionable, too ^^

"Hans : Yesterday was a terrible day for you and today you start out with a masterpiece. How would you summarize it?"

"Chess speaks for itself."


Memes out there : "Engine speaks for itself".

If you win a match like that, your heart is coming out of your chest. You can't walk let alone remain calm. He seems indifferent.

**********************************************************************

OMG. There are a LOT of Magnus haters in the world.
 
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Ben Grimm

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Ben Grimm

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ORRFForever

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Nepo won't even look Hans in the eye...



Hans : Do you want to analyze the position?

Nepo : Ask Lela, she's in your pocket.
 
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ORRFForever

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Garry's still crazy after all these years - Paul Simon.
 

Ben Grimm

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So.... Do you think Hans is cheating in classical matches?

1663204847915.png


In January of last year, he had a 2484 rating. His Carlsen "win" was very suspicious. Levon Aronian gives Hans the benefit of the doubt. I think he did in the past, but since the Carlsen game I don't think so. They play each other in a tourney that starts the 18th. @ORRFForever
 

ORRFForever

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In January of last year, he had a 2484 rating. His Carlsen "win" was very suspicious. Levon Aronian gives Hans the benefit of the doubt. I
That is an INSANE climb in 18 months. I'm not sure it's possible without help.

Re : "Levon Aronian gives Hans the benefit of the doubt"

I saw his comments - Aronian was right about chess players being paranoid.

***

There is smoke, is there fire?...

Hans got caught cheating at 12 and admitted it.
Hans got accused of cheating at 16 and denied it.
Chess.com just banned him, again, at 19.

If he is cheating, I don't know how. The players are scanned and they have implemented a 15 minute delay - so it's impossible for someone outside the room to send him moves.

He is more than a bit of a "nut" and very cocky - the whole thing has a Lance Armstrong feel. Armstrong was tested and tested and tested and his supporters said it proved he was NOT cheating. He was.

A chess friend, who hates Carlson, said, "If he's cheating, he will eventually get caught". True, but how bad will it damage chess?
 
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ORRFForever

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Time waits for no man... Even the King (no pun intended)...



Garry was tested recently and has an IQ of 135 - he's almost 60 so his IQ very was very likely 150+ in his prime.

The GOAT.
 
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Ben Grimm

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... If he is cheating, I don't know how. The players are scanned, and they have implemented a 15-minute delay - so it's impossible for someone outside the room to send him moves. ...
The 15-minute delay was started after the Carlsen game. I know exactly how he's doing it, but some may find it offensive, and it's been in the media, so I won't say. It's unfortunate that that you have chosen to refuse pms from all. You could just put certain people on ignore and they would be unable to pm you instead. @ORRFForever
 

Ben Grimm

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Brief Candle

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I've stayed away from this thread during this time because there's just SO much drama around all of this that at this point, it's more childish and annoying than anything. I'm taking this from the opposite angle: Magnus is the one hurting chess right now, not Hans.

Did Hans cheat? Maybe. If so, show me the proof. If he did, burry his career and be done with it, but until there is legitimate proof, it's all hearsay and hardly better than spreading rumors at recess in grade school. Just to clarify, while not my favorite player (skills notwithstanding), I certainly like Magnus. We stand for a lot of similar things outside of chess. The other side of the coin is the reality that Hans is no slouch of a player and just had things all come together that day. It's not like Magnus is unbeatable.

The reason I am giving Hans the benefit of doubt is that he has freely admitted to his past cheating. I suppose I'd just like to see Magnus handle this with a bit more grace. Walk all over Hans. Make him look stupid. Utterly crush him. Don't resign after one freakin' move.
 

ORRFForever

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I've stayed away from this thread during this time because there's just SO much drama around all of this that at this point, it's more childish and annoying than anything. I'm taking this from the opposite angle: Magnus is the one hurting chess right now, not Hans.

Did Hans cheat? Maybe. If so, show me the proof. If he did, burry his career and be done with it, but until there is legitimate proof, it's all hearsay and hardly better than spreading rumors at recess in grade school. Just to clarify, while not my favorite player (skills notwithstanding), I certainly like Magnus. We stand for a lot of similar things outside of chess. The other side of the coin is the reality that Hans is no slouch of a player and just had things all come together that day. It's not like Magnus is unbeatable.

The reason I am giving Hans the benefit of doubt is that he has freely admitted to his past cheating. I suppose I'd just like to see Magnus handle this with a bit more grace. Walk all over Hans. Make him look stupid. Utterly crush him. Don't resign after one freakin' move.

One correction to what you wrote...

Hans has been accused of cheating twice more (by Chess.com when Hans was 16 and, again, a few weeks ago) and never admitted to it - he only admitted to the first incident.

*******************************************************************

^^ What you wrote is fair and you make a solid argument. ^^

I believe Hans is cheating - although, obviously, I don't know how.

To me, the whole thing has a Lance Armstrong stench to it - we know he's cheating, other players know he's cheating, HE knows he's cheating, but no one can prove it.

The match that convinced me Hans was cheating was this one...



Hans not only beat Magnus, he suffocated him - like AlphaZero did with StockFish years ago. No one, minus an engine, beats Magnus like that. Then, to calmly say, the "Chess speaks for itself", as you exit the match, well, in my heart, I know something is wrong. So does Magnus.
 
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Ben Grimm

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