Change is needed.

[PredsHabs]

I am reaching out to Predators fans here trying to get a feel on the situation of our team.
If we were to do an overhaul who would be your untouchables?
Would you fire Trotz?
Would you fire Poile?

Our team is not that good at the forward position, especially our top line. So what would you do with this team to make changes?

My untouchables:
Jones
Forsberg
Mazanec
Ekholm

Semi untouchable(only trade if we are getting better):
Wilson
Hornqvist
Klein
Josi

Click to read more...

 

[Dave is a killer]

I'd blow it up, try to get the best possible package for Weber, fire Poile for continually constructing a team that has a hard time scoring, case in point, Saturday night, Flyers second night of a back to back and we let them hang around & sure enough we lose it in the shootout

 

[codeyh]

Is it Poile for building the team, or Trotz's system that hates offense?

it's all in how you look at it.

 

[Dave is a killer]

Is it Poile for building the team, or Trotz's system that hates offense?

it's all in how you look at it.

Both ... Poile for being sucked into Trotz's defensive mindset & Trotz for not being able to get the job done for years

 

[thecloser]

Poile is smart enough to get offense here.

It's Trotz's system that ruins any ounce of offensive strength a guy has. Hornqvist is our only perennial 25-30 goal scorer because he plays gritty.

sorry that's my take.

 

[token grinder]

Poile is smart enough to get offense here.

It's Trotz's system that ruins any ounce of offensive strength a guy has. Hornqvist is our only perennial 25-30 goal scorer because he plays gritty.

sorry that's my take.

Elaborate on this. What part of Trotz's system "ruins any ounce of offensive strength a guy has?"

I am curious because alot of the group think says this and rarely give a good factual explanation. The most common answer cite forwards that scored in junior hockey and haven't developed. What part of his system doesn't let them develop, or is it a scouting issue, in that we do not judge NA junior forward talent well? Erat, Radulov and Hornquist have been our best drafted forwards and all were from Europe. Trotz's system didn't seem to ruin them.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

My plan doesn't really fit any of the options, so I'll just post it.

1. Trade Weber at the deadline for the max offensive talent we can get, with one cap dump veteran D thrown in (think Brewer out of Tampa).

2. Shop guys like Legwand, Cullen, Gaustad, Nystrom, Stalberg, Hendricks (lol), etc. at the deadline and see if we can bring in projects at F, good draft picks, or stopgap top 4 Dmen, in that order of priority. Keep some vets, so don't "blow it up", but make good value trades if we can (i.e. Erat for Forsberg).

3. Play the young guns more.

4. Draft forward with our pick, or trade it for the best forward we can.

5. Give Trotz/Poile one or two more years. If there are no improvements, time for a change.

 

[Soundgarden]

I don't think we need to be as drastic as some are suggesting. Considering our injuries we are performing relatively well. Trade Josi for one of Edmonton's forwards, roll with Weber, Jones, Klein, Ekholm on D. Build around Eberle/Yakupov, Wilson, Smith and Forsberg on forward. Draft forwards like the Islanders did with defenseman a few years back and we're better off then the past couple years.

You can't really prepare for certain injuries like Rinne's, and Weber's might have been prevented had he worn a visor.

Unless we get something Lindros-esque we should not trade Weber. He's still in his prime and he's the type of defender who's prime can last until his mid 30's or early 40's. He can lead us to the cup if we keep adding the right pieces.

 

[Dave is a killer]

I don't think we need to be as drastic as some are suggesting. Considering our injuries we are performing relatively well. Trade Josi for one of Edmonton's forwards, roll with Weber, Jones, Klein, Ekholm on D. Build around Eberle/Yakupov, Wilson, Smith and Forsberg on forward. Draft forwards like the Islanders did with defenseman a few years back and we're better off then the past couple years.

You can't really prepare for certain injuries like Rinne's, and Weber's might have been prevented had he worn a visor.

Unless we get something Lindros-esque we should not trade Weber. He's still in his prime and he's the type of defender who's prime can last until his mid 30's or early 40's. He can lead us to the cup if we keep adding the right pieces.

We need to keep all the LHD that we have ... I'd much rather move Weber or Jones (which ever one gets us a better return) ... we'd have 2 LHD & 2 RHD in our Top 4

 

[preds1]

I actually like our defensive top 4.
We'll probably be looking to get picks and prospects at the deadiline if we do move one.
I doubt a playoff team will be giving up what we would hope for in return.

We've had a top 3 need for awhile.
So we signed a third redundant center and overpaid for a few grinders that we're stuck with.
That's what bothers me.

 

[triggrman]

I'm only in favor of a trade if we get the better player coming back.

So not many trades for Weber or Jones to me are going to make much sense.

Most teams would die to have a defender like Weber, yet we want to trade him away....

 

[Soundgarden]

Core pieces: Weber

Secondary pieces: Wilson, Smith, Josi, Klein, Hornqvist, Legwand, Fisher

Young guns: Jones, Forsberg, Ekholm, '14 1st.

That is a great core of mostly secondary pieces. It's depth like that that wins cups. If we had just one more 1st tier player we would be a contender, no question.


Rinne is a core piece, but he's the one I'm worried most about. He's in his prime right now, but can't stay healthy. Certainly we keep him for the time being, but in a year or two do we trade him if Mazanec continues to do well?

With Klein and Weber out this is a good time to play Ellis and if he does well we shop him. He won't get the return Weber or even Josi would, but we've had so many defenseman here and haven't gotten jack for them when we lose them. That needs to change.

 

[roseyc]

I think Poile is a good GM but he's tied to the Hip with Trotz so if that's the case then they both need to go. We can't move forward with any trades unless we have a new offensive philosphy. We can't evaluate our forwards because the system doesn't allow them to be offensive. The defensive is fine. The offseason moves at this point have failed. The two signed grinders were a mistake this was a Trotz idea which hasn't proved out. Cullen was a mistake. Stalberg I thought was a good signing but the system doesn't allow him to develop. So whatever moves we suggest won't do any good unless we change who is running the ship. We win two and loose three. When a coach blames the players and says we need them to score then it's the coaches fault he is not putting the players in the best position to succeed.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I think we're...two seasons away from needing to decide whether to blow it all up or not. Always saw this as a transition year, and considering the injuries, the team still isn't playing THAT poorly. Two more seasons gives enough time: to gauge what we really have with Forsberg, Wilson, Smith, Beck, etc..., gives Jones enough developmental time to take the reins over from Weber, and gives more flexibility with some of the poor contracts as well as having already seen decisions made on guys like Legwand.

Blowing it up now has a few disadvantages
-shallow draft, and us not likely bad enough, even without Weber, to end up with one of the franchise guys
-too early to place all the responsibility on Jones' and Josi's shoulders
-lacking the elite offensive player to build around, and not likely to be in a position to draft one
-still too many young players that the jury is out on. If we blow it up assuming that we can slot Wilson and Forsberg in as top line wings, but neither one ever progresses past being a 40-45 point guy, we're likely no better off than we are now. By this, I mean that, lacking significant talent up front (despite what we may get back for Weber), and giving up prime defensive assets, we're likely to be pretty bad for awhile.

 

[101st_fan]

Elaborate on this. What part of Trotz's system "ruins any ounce of offensive strength a guy has?"

I am curious because alot of the group think says this and rarely give a good factual explanation. The most common answer cite forwards that scored in junior hockey and haven't developed. What part of his system doesn't let them develop, or is it a scouting issue, in that we do not judge NA junior forward talent well? Erat, Radulov and Hornquist have been our best drafted forwards and all were from Europe. Trotz's system didn't seem to ruin them.

You have a better chance of winning the Powerball and MegaMillions in the same week than getting a logical elaboration.

 

[Enjoy i24 Traffic]

Newsflash: it's not going to happen this year and it's not going to happen in the middle of the season, especially with these injuries.

The Preds Org can't score, ever? lol, ok. maybe this year but there have been other seasons where they've been up there in NHL scoring.

This group is not that great. Sorry. Enjoy the ride.

 

[cleangene63]

I don't know if it's the Trotz "system" which can't put this team into elite status, but maybe what I would call his lack of development. For someone who preaches about "greasy goals" being the way scoring takes place in the NHL now, he sure doesn't know how to have his team close to the net with their sticks ready to puck in the net. The 1 goal scored tonight was a shining example of that, but how many other times were there more than 1 gold jersey around Loooooser? It's surprising that the side boards in The Bridge don't need replaced every week, because over half of every shift into the zones are spent with the puck there by the Preds. And, how in the world can you go 15 years without having an assistant on staff to work on SHOOTING the puck??? Stals, Smitty, Spals, and (if we ever get to see him again) FF have sniper potential, but why aren't they working to improve their shooting skills??? I don't know about anyone else, but my patience is wearing thin on watching forwards dump the puck from the blue line, shoot from a wide angle missing the net or directly into the chest of every opposing goalie. BORING, BORING, BORING, and I'm sick and tired of watching it.

 

[Drake744]

The difference between teams that truly do suck, and teams whose fans only think they truly suck is how they actually look on the ice. Most nights I don't think we look that bad out there. I think we have an all-too-familiar lack of offensive finishers. More games than not, we're generating plenty of scoring opportunities. We're frustrated by lack of GOALS, not lack of chances. It's mind-numbing how many "almosts" we have on a nightly basis, which to me is a product of "not sucking enough" because we're in position to score, we just have a plethora of dudes that don't have that natural scoring touch.

Honestly, I try to keep Jones at all costs. Trading him right now would just be crazy. I'd consider Weber only in the almost impossible scenario where we get a franchise sniper in return. Josi.....maybe......but I;m in no rush to shop him. I say maybe we involve Klein and a couple good supporting pieces in a deal with a team starving for defense.

 

[PFL615]

Agree with above we can compete with anyone on the ice. We just have a bunch od 3rd line players getting put into top line roles. It shows when the "lucky" greasy goals don't go in.

 

[Nothing Is New]

All of this begins with Trotz. No sense in talking about players at all if you are uncertain of Trotz. He can coach defense and two way hockey. He is capable to taking an average team to the playoffs - some times. But over time, you look at your roster with Trotz and -damn- you've got a bunch of third liners and a couple of good d-men. The modern era is trending towards offense. But if we change (gold watch to Trotz), there will be several years of worse hockey before we get better.

I think Poile could put together an offensive team over time - if the owners wanted it.

 

[BigFatCat999]

None of us had this as a go for it year. But, the Preds have those foundational players that teams love to trade for during the playoffs. Legwand should get some quality in a trade. Next year, I LOVE the possible goalie tandem of Peks and Maz. The top 4 is ungodly. You ship out Legwand and with the cap bump the Preds could have 7 million to sign ONE player.

Legwand is the only UFA.

Ekholm as an RFA, Ellis as an RFA, Spaling is an RFA.

If it was me, jettison Legwand and Ellis. Send Legwand to a team who is going for it. Ellis only because there is a wall of Weber-Josi, Jones-Klein. You don't need a PP specialist when you have THAT. Unless RINNE'S hip is bad you have D and G set.

Question becomes, will there be a center on the market worth 7 mil?

 

[Drake744]

None of us had this as a go for it year. But, the Preds have those foundational players that teams love to trade for during the playoffs. Legwand should get some quality in a trade. Next year, I LOVE the possible goalie tandem of Peks and Maz. The top 4 is ungodly. You ship out Legwand and with the cap bump the Preds could have 7 million to sign ONE player.

Legwand is the only UFA.

Ekholm as an RFA, Ellis as an RFA, Spaling is an RFA.

If it was me, jettison Legwand and Ellis. Send Legwand to a team who is going for it. Ellis only because there is a wall of Weber-Josi, Jones-Klein. You don't need a PP specialist when you have THAT. Unless RINNE'S hip is bad you have D and G set.

Question becomes, will there be a center on the market worth 7 mil?

Or better yet, sign Cullen and Stalberg........

 

[glenngineer]

I think it goes to coaching. We play not to lose instead of playing to win. When we are at home we play for the defensive matchup as opposed to playing our better guys in offensive situations. Oh, the Sedins are out there, let's put so and so's line out there. Oh, Kesler is out there, we'll put so and so's line out there.

I get the game is about matchups but at some point, you have to point those matchups in your favor and not worry about what the other team is doing. Unfortunately, we can't line up and say, our guys are going to beat your guys because they're better.

One of the problems I have is not being able to put away teams when we have them down. It happens in a few ways. One way is being in a close game and getting chances and not being able to finish. Shoot for the corners, not the gnat on the goalies chest. The other way is being up 3-0 like we were on the road trip a few times and either losing or having the other team come back to make it a game. We have the inability to go for the jugular when the other team is down and wounded. Yes, the other team can motivate themselves and attempt the comeback but we are in far too many close games without any sort of breather on a night we should be able to take a period off or have our bigger guns resting. The season is long and when you have your top guys constantly having to fight game in and game out, either injuries happen or guys get worn down and they are less effective.

Once again, 3 goals in 3 games is not going to get it done, especially against teams that aren't any better or worse than we are. I get tired of the injury excuse. Losing Weber and Klein have hurt but Maz has us in every game lately, the young D is playing better than expected. The deflection off of Ellis's leg sucked but Kesler's second goal with 4 guys standing around him and letting him poke it in is ridiculous. If that were Hornqvist he would've been face down on the ice. We need to be more physical. We need to lay guys out. Oh wait, we can't do that because we don't have a roster with skill guys that have an edge to their game. We need to send guys to the front of the net but they all end up behind the net somehow.

I had a funny dream that I was either coaching a practice or the game and I yelled at the 5 offensive guys on the ice that they all didn't need to go below the redline to chase the puck, that at least one of them should go to the front of the net and they all looked at me like I was crazy. They were like, we're not supposed to go to the front of the net, that's not what coach tells us anyway. It's sad that I have dreams like that.

 

[nomorekids]

Like it or not, marquee free agents don't want to come here. It's not an attractive option to younger players...so the best bet is signing aging stars that are looking for one last kick at the can--see Kariya, Arnott. I don't think it's for lack of trying, it's just that the free agent pool is so small these days, and there are teams that will always have intangible appeal that Nashville doesn't have, so in most cases they're going to strike out there--or resort to having to overpay players like Hendricks or Gaustad.

A lot of people say things like, "The Predators need better scorers," and act like Poile\Trotz don't know it--but it's not like they're easy to come by. The point of frustration for me is that KNOWING that players like Parise are going to pass you up every single time, that you don't utilize the assets you have to bring the talent you need in via other means. Poile, in his time in Nashville, has displayed an unwillingness to part out prospects in trade, preferring to either move actual players or, if looking to improve the team, draft picks. That's fine in some cases, but when the organization primarily thrives on defensemen and goaltenders, I think the hoarding can start to hurt you. There was interest in Blum for a period, but Poile was afraid to let go of a defenseman that he believed could develop into something special. The same thing looks like it's happening now with Ellis. Eventually, these players play their value down so much that trading them wouldn't really return anything of interest, anyway. It's poor asset management.

We can't control free agents choosing other places...that's not Poile or Trotz's fault, but i think at some point, you have to be willing to move pieces BEFORE you get a chance to see how great you think they could become for more immediate help.

 

[triggrman]

I think it goes to coaching. We play not to lose instead of playing to win. When we are at home we play for the defensive matchup as opposed to playing our better guys in offensive situations. Oh, the Sedins are out there, let's put so and so's line out there. Oh, Kesler is out there, we'll put so and so's line out there.

I get the game is about matchups but at some point, you have to point those matchups in your favor and not worry about what the other team is doing. Unfortunately, we can't line up and say, our guys are going to beat your guys because they're better.

One of the problems I have is not being able to put away teams when we have them down. It happens in a few ways. One way is being in a close game and getting chances and not being able to finish. Shoot for the corners, not the gnat on the goalies chest. The other way is being up 3-0 like we were on the road trip a few times and either losing or having the other team come back to make it a game. We have the inability to go for the jugular when the other team is down and wounded. Yes, the other team can motivate themselves and attempt the comeback but we are in far too many close games without any sort of breather on a night we should be able to take a period off or have our bigger guns resting. The season is long and when you have your top guys constantly having to fight game in and game out, either injuries happen or guys get worn down and they are less effective.

Once again, 3 goals in 3 games is not going to get it done, especially against teams that aren't any better or worse than we are. I get tired of the injury excuse. Losing Weber and Klein have hurt but Maz has us in every game lately, the young D is playing better than expected. The deflection off of Ellis's leg sucked but Kesler's second goal with 4 guys standing around him and letting him poke it in is ridiculous. If that were Hornqvist he would've been face down on the ice. We need to be more physical. We need to lay guys out. Oh wait, we can't do that because we don't have a roster with skill guys that have an edge to their game. We need to send guys to the front of the net but they all end up behind the net somehow.

I had a funny dream that I was either coaching a practice or the game and I yelled at the 5 offensive guys on the ice that they all didn't need to go below the redline to chase the puck, that at least one of them should go to the front of the net and they all looked at me like I was crazy. They were like, we're not supposed to go to the front of the net, that's not what coach tells us anyway. It's sad that I have dreams like that.

I agree with most of this.

This coaching staff, system and GM all believe in hard work and safe plays.

The problem is this gets you average prospects and when the other teams with more talent work as hard in the playoffs you come up short.