Player Discussion Thomas Chabot (D) Extended 8 years 8M AAV

[Larionov]

Bottom line is playing Chabot 32 minutes and Jaros 7 is not good for the organization in any way in this scenario. If the team is making a playoff push sure. Its non sensical in this scenario. No way Pierre is happy about it.

In the last interview Dorion gave right after the trade deadline, he sounded like he wanted to marry DJ, so if he has any concerns about the job DJ is doing he's doing an awfully good job of hiding it.

 

[swiftwin]

Coach DJ is jeopardizing the future by playing Chabot like this. If Chabot gets a Karlsson like injury this early in his career, that's it for the rebuild. We've already committed mega dollars to the guy. We need him healthy. The games don't mean anything. Please stop the madness. There needs to be a minutes limit on him for the rest of the season. For what other reason do guys like Reilly, Zaitsev and Hainsey exist?

Karlsson like injury? What are you talking about? Karlsson holds the franchise ironman record.

 

[JD1]

Bottom line is playing Chabot 32 minutes and Jaros 7 is not good for the organization in any way in this scenario. If the team is making a playoff push sure. Its non sensical in this scenario. No way Pierre is happy about it.

I'd agree that Pierre is not happy. It's not ideal

A positive that i take from it though is that we had Jaros in the lineup last year for 60 games or whatever it was taking a regular shift. This year he doesn't seem good enough. On the surface it sucks that he's not good enough, but in the grander scheme of things, it seems his ceiling might be beneath DJ's floor and that's a good thing

 

[bert]

In the last interview Dorion gave right after the trade deadline, he sounded like he wanted to marry DJ, so if he has any concerns about the job DJ is doing he's doing an awfully good job of hiding it.

You can still be happy with someone and dissagree with their decisions. If they didnt dissagree on things that would be an issue. They should be challenging each other on players, decisions, etc that means there are open lines of communication.

I'd agree that Pierre is not happy. It's not ideal

A positive that i take from it though is that we had Jaros in the lineup last year for 60 games or whatever it was taking a regular shift. This year he doesn't seem good enough. On the surface it sucks that he's not good enough, but in the grander scheme of things, it seems his ceiling might be beneath DJ's floor and that's a good thing

I think its pretty hard for any player to perform with 7 minutes of icetime, no rythm to the game. Its also pretty hard for me to watch Zaitsev and Hainsey play this much and think the floor is very high. After watching Jaros for 60 games last year I see very little difference in his game between those players, no he hasnt played well but if he makes a mistake he doesnt see the ice again. If Hainsey or Zaitsev make a mistake they get thrown back out there its a bad double standard when you are trying to develop players. The only difference outside of leadership is Jaros still has developing to do and they do not.

Its not just Jaros though its been happening all season the player that comes to mind the most is Chlapik. He seems to play well even in a limited role but has his icetime reduced. He finally played a decent amount last game as there is literally no one else DJ trusts. Which tells me its all about trust and not development which shouldnt be the orgnizational goal right now. If D.J believe he has a long term future with the organization I am a little suprised he is going about it this way. I think he is a pretty smart guy but I guess its hard to go away from your instincts even if they are fundamentally flawed with where the organization currently is.

 

[JD1]

You can still be happy with someone and dissagree with their decisions. If they didnt dissagree on things that would be an issue. They should be challenging each other on players, decisions, etc that means there are open lines of communication.



I think its pretty hard for any player to perform with 7 minutes of icetime, no rythm to the game. Its also pretty hard for me to watch Zaitsev and Hainsey play this much and think the floor is very high. After watching Jaros for 60 games last year I see very little difference in his game between those players, no he hasnt played well but if he makes a mistake he doesnt see the ice again. If Hainsey or Zaitsev make a mistake they get thrown back out there its a bad double standard when you are trying to develop players. The only difference outside of leadership is Jaros still has developing to do and they do not.

Its not just Jaros though its been happening all season the player that comes to mind the most is Chlapik. He seems to play well even in a limited role but has his icetime reduced. He finally played a decent amount last game as there is literally no one else DJ trusts. Which tells me its all about trust and not development which shouldnt be the orgnizational goal right now. If D.J believe he has a long term future with the organization I am a little suprised he is going about it this way. I think he is a pretty smart guy but I guess its hard to go away from your instincts even if they are fundamentally flawed with where the organization currently is.

Chaplik is averaging almost 9 minutes a game which is not completely out of whack for a 4th line C. Ideally he's at 10. I also believe that the org thinks highly of him and their thoughts on him contributed to Pageau being moved. I like Chaplik. I think he can provide 10 minutes a night of pretty physical 4c hard hockey and 20 points a year. I think we can get that out of him for a few years but i also see it as his ceiling

 

[Masked]

Chabot doesn't have to worry about hard playoff minutes this year so I'm not too upset at him getting big minutes.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We are extremely blessed to have this guy. Absolute beast of a player. Deserves the C.

Having him, Brannstrom, JBD and Thomson........ yeeeeeeshhhhhhhh

 

[Ice-Tray]

Ice time perspectives.

Rather than limited ice time being a punishment, consider that limited ice time is an amount that the coaching staff feel that the player can most effectively operate under without being overwhelmed or exposed. Jaros isn’t being punished, he’s being sheltered. If he is able to do good things consistently with 7 minutes, then he will be given more responsibility, bit by bit.

7 minutes is plenty to show good things, especially as a defenceman. I personally think the development of the kids has been priority one for our squad this year, and that the ice time has been sheltering rather than punitive. Even when we suck, the kids are getting ice time that befits their personal development and skill/comfort level. We brought in vets to do the heavy lifting, and bear the brunt of defeats.

Jaros for example, is able to work within his minutes to be a solid defender, without being personally responsible for our losses. Just go out and learn and play our team game. Get better, and watch the ice time increase.

 

[OD99]

Bottom line is playing Chabot 32 minutes and Jaros 7 is not good for the organization in any way in this scenario. If the team is making a playoff push sure. Its non sensical in this scenario. No way Pierre is happy about it.

The Jaros thing is strange I admit and I felt he could have played more all season.

As far as Pierre being upset about how much Chabot is playing remember what he said when discussing Boucher?

"I don't want to hear, "Rest is a weapon" again".

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

... sportsnet keeps up the trolling by reposting oldies but goodies

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

... sportsnet keeps up the trolling by reposting oldies but goodies

Trolling how?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Trolling how?

Bit of sarcasm maybe, but by reposting all these old videos. The selection is a bit weird. For sure, I could be overthinking it.

The other day posting EK and Alfredsson, the playing of the leafs and Sens playoff games... I just think this one is a bit of a troll with the EK reference again.

They did post this today: a positive one

Here’s another Easter egg

 

[danielpalfredsson]

An interesting note in that video is, Calgary and Ottawa were the two teams who invited Chabot to their facility ahead of the 2015 draft.

Calgary picked 3 ahead of us at 15, but traded the pick to Boston for Dougie Hamilton.

Obviously, it doesn't mean that Calgary for sure would have selected Chabot, but it's an interesting tidbit.

 

[bert]

Ice time perspectives.

Rather than limited ice time being a punishment, consider that limited ice time is an amount that the coaching staff feel that the player can most effectively operate under without being overwhelmed or exposed. Jaros isn’t being punished, he’s being sheltered. If he is able to do good things consistently with 7 minutes, then he will be given more responsibility, bit by bit.

7 minutes is plenty to show good things, especially as a defenceman. I personally think the development of the kids has been priority one for our squad this year, and that the ice time has been sheltering rather than punitive. Even when we suck, the kids are getting ice time that befits their personal development and skill/comfort level. We brought in vets to do the heavy lifting, and bear the brunt of defeats.

Jaros for example, is able to work within his minutes to be a solid defender, without being personally responsible for our losses. Just go out and learn and play our team game. Get better, and watch the ice time increase.

7 minutes is certainly not enough time to show what you have in a game, absolutely no rhythm. You clearly have not played the sport if you think that. I dont need a 10 paragraph response, its simple ask anyone thats played. You can't play with confidence and you dont feel the pulse of the game.

 

[JD1]

7 minutes is certainly not enough time to show what you have in a game, absolutely no rhythm. You clearly have not played the sport if you think that. I dont need a 10 paragraph response, its simple ask anyone thats played. You can't play with confidence and you dont feel the pulse of the game.

7 minutes is even worse for a young D. Pretty much anyone that gets to this level was a star level player from 15 thru to the end of junior. That means for a D 25 minutes a night as a 19 year old junior. Hard to go from that level of involvement to less than 10 and be involved

 

[Sweatred]

7 minutes is certainly not enough time to show what you have in a game, absolutely no rhythm. You clearly have not played the sport if you think that. I dont need a 10 paragraph response, its simple ask anyone thats played. You can't play with confidence and you dont feel the pulse of the game.

Development isn’t just limited to the playing minutes in a game. The 7-9 minutes Chaplik or Jaros may get a game may not be ideal but are also allowing them to practice daily vs NHL players.

This thread doesn’t address that reality of what happens when DJ drops his floor and gives away ice time. DJ’s floor has forced most of the kids to improve their play. Boucher gifted ice time to Jaros, White, and Lajoie because they picked up a few points. There games have huge holes that were not addressed under Boucher.

 

[Sensung]

Development isn’t just limited to the playing minutes in a game. The 7-9 minutes Chaplik or Jaros may get a game may not be ideal but are also allowing them to practice daily vs NHL players.

This thread doesn’t address that reality of what happens when DJ drops his floor and gives away ice time. DJ’s floor has forced most of the kids to improve their play. Boucher gifted ice time to Jaros, White, and Lajoie because they picked up a few points. There games have huge holes that were not addressed under Boucher.

Well it’s a good thing that DJ has so many perfect players, with no holes in their games, to run out there for the rest of the ice time. Wouldn’t want him to have to “drop his floor” to help develop our young players.

 

[Sweatred]

Well it’s a good thing that DJ has so many perfect players, with no holes in their games, to run out there for the rest of the ice time. Wouldn’t want him to have to “drop his floor” to help develop our young players.

No ... not all all. That leads to under developed prospects and last place finishes. Until our prospects can outplay C.Brown, Ennis, and Hainsey types we aren’t going anywhere anyway.

Colin White was handed a spot beside Duschene with out accomplishing half of what Batherson or Norris have let alone Formenton. It hasn’t helped him or the org. Same for Lajoie ... gifted vs earned and two steps backwards.

 

[Sensung]

No ... not all all. That leads to under developed prospects and last place finishes. Until our prospects can outplay C.Brown, Ennis, and Hainsey types we aren’t going anywhere anyway.

Colin White was handed a spot beside Duschene with out accomplishing half of what Batherson or Norris have let alone Formenton. It hasn’t helped him or the org. Same for Lajoie ... gifted vs earned and two steps backwards.

The Sens were going to finish at the bottom of the standings no matter how DJ deployed the available personnel.

He wasted an opportunity to provide meaningful icetime to many young players in a throw away season.

Inexcusable.

 

[Sweatred]

The Sens were going to finish at the bottom of the standings no matter how DJ deployed the available personnel.

He wasted an opportunity to provide meaningful icetime to many young players in a throw away season.

Inexcusable.

I would rather finish last with prospects developing than finish last and have prospects failing.

I don’t pretend to think either option doesn’t have its own merit or flaws ... but the byproduct of Boucher’s gifted ice time (White, Lajoie, Jaros) one year later should at least be considered.

It isn’t play or don’t play... it’s play in the NHL vs AHL. Batherson, Formenton, Norris, Brann, Brown, Lajoie, could all argue they could have played in the NHL this year. I’d say none of them were hurt by playing “down”.

 

[Sensung]

I would rather finish last with prospects developing than finish last and have prospects failing.

Athletes learn best playing at the highest level at which they are capable of competing.

Winning is immaterial.

Mistakes are learning. Players learn more from mistakes than success.

DJ was focused in his W/L record. He wasted developmental opportunities for many of our prospects.

 

[Sweatred]

Athletes learn best playing at the highest level at which they are capable of competing.

Winning is immaterial.

Mistakes are learning. Players learn more from mistakes than success.

DJ was focused in his W/L record. He wasted developmental opportunities for many of our prospects.

I respectfully disagree. My 12 year old wouldn’t learn more by playing CHL hockey, he would learn less. That premise isn’t true. There are many times that a player can learn with exposure to a higher level but it isn’t constant across all players.

For example - Over 200 players are drafted each year yet maybe 1-5 will play in the NHL that season. Less than 5-15 players drafted a year sooner will play. Clearly teams want their prospects to develop to their full potential but less than 1% of players drafted are picked to develop at “the highest level”.

 

[Sensung]

I respectfully disagree. My 12 year old wouldn’t learn more by playing CHL hockey, he would learn less. That premise isn’t true. There are many times that a player can learn with exposure to a higher level but it isn’t constant across all players.

For example - Over 200 players are drafted each year yet maybe 1-5 will play in the NHL that season. Less than 5-15 players drafted a year sooner will play. Clearly teams want their prospects to develop to their full potential but less than 1% of players drafted are picked to develop at “the highest level”.

Misrepresenting my point doesn't refute it. Your son would not be capable of competing at the CHL level.

Many of the Sens prospects can compete at the NHL level, but were not given the opportunity because DJ was focused on his W/L record. The Sens had no business trying to win in a throw away season.

The organization should have reigned DJ in, but they wanted to sell tickets and the rebuild.

 

[Sweatred]

Misrepresenting my point doesn't refute it. Your son would not be capable of competing at the CHL level.

Many of the Sens prospects can compete at the NHL level, but were not given the opportunity because DJ was focused on his W/L record. The Sens had no business trying to win in a throw away season.

The organization should have reigned DJ in, but they wanted to sell tickets and the rebuild.

I think we disagree on what the value of simply “competing” at the NHL level is. I have no interest in gifting ice time to players that can’t or won’t out work or out play replacement level players like Ennis, Hainsey, etc. I have no problem with our coaches bar being higher.

I’m not trying to start an argument, perhaps consider it just a different perspective. There was lots of times during the year I was annoyed at Brown or Brann’s limited ice time or demotion.

When I look back at the overall player/prospect development this year under DJ’s BAR/EFFORT system I am much happier than what I saw from Boucher’s GIFT system.

It felt like every time Batherson was sent down he came back a little stronger. I’m sure he was annoyed but the player we saw on the last callup was much different his 1-2 callups before.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Misrepresenting my point doesn't refute it. Your son would not be capable of competing at the CHL level.

Many of the Sens prospects can compete at the NHL level, but were not given the opportunity because DJ was focused on his W/L record. The Sens had no business trying to win in a throw away season.

The organization should have reigned DJ in, but they wanted to sell tickets and the rebuild.

They had one of the best ahl teams led by young prospects. Pretty sure development was fantastic this season. Look at batherson who was awful at the start then came back up and looked great and was given more and more minutes.

Suggesting that playing guys like hainsey and Ennis etc was to sell tickets is silly. They were there as a stop gap, exactly what the leafs did five years ago.