Center to Wing Conversion

[smithformeragent]

I've played goalie since I was about 9.

Having said that, I haven't skated out since I was a mite.
I'd be totally useless at any position other than goalie.

As we were figuring out lines last night, I started thinking, is it fair to ask natural centers to play the wing and vice versa?

I started thinking about guys like Spooner, Kessel & Seguin.
I also thought about the few players in the league like Byfuglien who have played both forward and defense.

There has been a lot of talk about whether or not Spooner can/would play the wing given this team's glut at the center position.

I get that it's easier to move from one forward position to another, but how difficult is it to change? Some guys can do it and others can't. The B's tried to turn a natural center in Seguin into a wing in order to fill a need. Is it simply easier to bring a younger player in as a wing and let him learn the pro game without all of the responsibility involved with playing center? Does it just matter who the player is on a case by case basis?

Click to read more...

 

[LouisSleigher]

Thought I saw a recent quote from Cassidy saying that Spooner can NOT play wing.

 

[PlayMakers]

IMO, if you can can play center you can play all three forward positions. It's an easier position which is why so many centers 'start out' on the wing while they adjust to the pace of NHL play.

I've only ever seen one center who couldn't make the transition and he was kind of a stubborn SOB. That's not to say a natural C can't be better suited or more effective in the middle, (that's where I think all the Spooner talk gets lost in translation), but I think almost any NHL caliber C can slide over to the W and be competent and contribute.

Converting from W to C is much harder and something not everyone (if not most) wingers cannot do. Just switching to your off wing can be difficult for a lot of wingers.

 

[VanIsle]

Are the Bruins really going to have a choice in this matter.

With Bergeron/Krejci/Soderberg at center for the foreseeable future, or this year anyways, where do Spooner/Koko fit in in the near future and Pastrnak a year or 2 down the road.

 

[Replicator]

Converting from W to C is much harder and something not everyone (if not most) wingers cannot do. Just switching to your off wing can be difficult for a lot of wingers.

I never played at very high level, but I'd say that switching to your off wing would be more difficult than converting from W to C. It's all about using your off hand - scraping a backhand away from the boards is harder to control than a forehand, your checking is less powerful & accurate on your opposite side, and your instincts are generally fighting you at every turn.

Switching to center is learning new responsibilities on the ice (most of which you've got a lifetime of experience of seeing from the other end) and improving one's faceoff skills.

 

[NDiesel]

Take this with a grain of salt since I'm not NHLer, but I played defense when I was really young, then moved up to wing. I think it likely depends on the player. My coach one year noticed I liked to skate more freely rather than sticking to my own wing, ever since then I've been a center. It just feels more natural for me.

Ever since then I can play not only my natural wing but my off wing too. Bill has it perfectly in my opinion. If you can play center, you can really play any forward position since at any point in time you may be receiving a pass on your forehand or backhand.

From what I read about Spooner (admittedly haven't watched much of him) he seems like a player who would be better off at center since he's more of a creative, free wheeling player. I'm sure he could play wing too, but it's more about what's better for him and the team.

 

[PlayMakers]

I never played at very high level, but I'd say that switching to your off wing would be more difficult than converting from W to C. It's all about using your off hand - scraping a backhand away from the boards is harder to control than a forehand, your checking is less powerful & accurate on your opposite side, and your instincts are generally fighting you at every turn.

Switching to center is learning new responsibilities on the ice (most of which you've got a lifetime of experience of seeing from the other end) and improving one's faceoff skills.

I disagree.

The positioning (from LW to RW) is the same, the responsibilities are the same, you're just on the other side of the ice. Yeah, you have to handle the puck on your back hand more and you have to attack differently, but you have to do both of those things if you convert to C too. Plus, a C has a bigger area to defend, the responsibilities are completlely different.

Maybe you have to fight your instincts a bit coming thru the neutral zone, but most teams allow you (and even encourage players) to criss cross lanes. In the offensive zone, positions are irrelevant, coaches teach F1, F2 and F3 instead of LW/C/RW because they don't care what position the forward plays. Defensively is where a winger converted to C really has to fight his instincts, he has to stay low and help the D instead of flying the zone early or running out to shadow a Dman. He has to be far more active and involved supporting puck battles around the zone instead of engaging in battles in your area, then disengaging and playing a zone like a winger...

The hardest thing for a winger to learn (IMO) is when he's on the breakout, setting up with your butt to the wall and taking a pass or taking the puck off the boards under pressure. But I remember Neely (a career RW) saying he preferred breakouts on his off-wing, because when you're on your off side your stick is towards the D and the puck instead of out in the neutral zone. You're actually pulling pucks off the wall on your forehand instead of your backhand.

 

[ODAAT]

Junior B was as far as my illustrious career took me. Prior to Junior I was both a Center-man and Right winger who was playing my off wing as a lefty shot.

Toughest adjustment (as Bill mentioned) I had moving to the wing was simply picking the puck up along the wall in my own end and having the discipline to know that it was my job to patrol the right side, not to race around wherever the puck was as I often did as a center-man.

I took a ton of abuse, smallish at barely 6`, coaches "game plan" was the old dump it in the corner, winger takes the man or makes initial contact, center-man swoops in and takes the puck (usually as I laid on my arse)

 

[Fierce1]

Center to wing has it's challenges but specifically where it applies to Bruins I think of Spooner and Khoko. Kelly is a vet, he can manage just fine but our two young skilled centers are trying to make the league playing out of position and most importantly (IMO) is the fact they are 5'10" and 180ish. Honestly I don't know how Khoko would do down low in the corners against an NHL D'man but I see Spooner as being easily pushed around. Experience would help combat the size disadvantage but these two players have an uphill battle to crack our lineup playing the wing.

 

[Beesfan]

A center should be able to swith to his strong-side wing without much trouble. I think playing an off wing is a hard adjustment, even for a center that needs to play on both sides. An off wing has to create plays through the neutral zone on the backhand almost 100% of the time. It shaves a half-second off your timing if you aren't used to it, and throws your game off a bit.

Players with a great stick do just as well on the off wing, i.e. Patrick Kane and Reilly Smith. Less purely talented players, like Jared Knight, struggle with the timing issue more.

 

[PlayMakers]

Center to wing has it's challenges but specifically where it applies to Bruins I think of Spooner and Khoko. Kelly is a vet, he can manage just fine but our two young skilled centers are trying to make the league playing out of position and most importantly (IMO) is the fact they are 5'10" and 180ish. Honestly I don't know how Khoko would do down low in the corners against an NHL D'man but I see Spooner as being easily pushed around. Experience would help combat the size disadvantage but these two players have an uphill battle to crack our lineup playing the wing.

IMO, wingers don't spend any more time down low in the corners than centers. The game has changed. Forward positions mean nothing in the offensive zone. Everybody ropes and everybody rides in a cycle game. If anything, it's harder (physically) on centers now because they have to do so much down low in the defensive zone, helping the D win puck battles and protecting the dirty areas.

 

[doc5hole]

Spooner and Koko have been centers in Prov., so it's highly unlikely the Bruins will ask either to play wing in Boston. They look at different factors and see if they think a center can function as a winger while learning the NHL ropes.

Seguin they knew could not go back to junior without reinforcing his have-the-puck all-the-time dominance and not develop for the NHL, so they brought him right up and put him on RW.

As for wingers playing off wing, Landon Wilson, Steve Heinze and Mike Knuble were three right shots who played more effectively at LW (stick inside). Heinze could have scored 45 goals in that dreadful 96-97 season had Darius Kasparaitis not caught him in the neutral zone in the Igloo, knocking him out if the lineup.

Knuble had negligible production until Guerin left and Robbie Ftorek put him at LW with Joe Thornton and Glen Murray, creating "the 700 lb. line."

Some guys just don't have either the power stride down the wing on their natural side or a good deke inside. Heinze was horrible, but he was a real threat left of center.

Same for Michael Ryder BTW, and Julien knew exactly how to use him while in Montreal and in Boston.

Even though the traditional European method (wingers' sticks inside rather than out) has proven beneficial to many complementary players, the Bruins only have two right shots, Bergeron and Krejci. Pastrnak and Brian Ferlin will be the only serious winger prospects in camp with right shots. I expect one acquisition, and it most definitely will be a right shot.

 

[GloveSave1]

Thought I saw a recent quote from Cassidy saying that Spooner can NOT play wing.

That would be a big quote.

Might help a lot of people get their head around that there is a real barrier, probably a few, between Spooner and wing. There has been smoke for far too long.

It most likely has real substance.

People blow it off because the kid said he'd do anything, but what is he supposed to say publicly?
Behind closed doors there's issues.

 

[LouisSleigher]

But where would he play?

“I think he likes to have the puck too much between the blue lines in the open ice, personally,” Cassidy said, when asked if Spooner could play the wing. “I just think naturally that’s when he’s at his best, when he’s getting the puck and attacking the D and backing them off.

“Usually through the middle of the ice is the best place to have that unless you’re a shooter down the wing, and he’s not, that’s not his game where he’ll come flying down the wing and back a D off there and beat him one-on-one. He’s more middle of the ice, draw people to him, drive wide, and then find the open man.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/07/12/ryan-spooner-alexander-khokhlachev-among-crowded-group-hopefuls-center/4wCAVH0uDfaQMbMPat2YAJ/story.html

 

[CanadianBruinsFan]

Going from C to W is much easier than the other way around, for sure.

In terms of ability of playing it, it's not an impossible transition. It's mentally easier to play the wing, but there are more battles on the boards and a little less leg work north-south.

I think where a lot of centres suffer if they get switched to the wing is the board battles. Even things like a hard rim around that him and the D man are on a collision course for. That's a transition that a centre wouldn't have to do nearly as much. I think this is where Seguin struggled the most. He'd poke his stick in the feet of the guys battling like I used to do in novice and come out with the puck haha.

 

[BNHL]

I like Terry O'Reilly's quote;"Wing is just a place where you line up".

 

[GoBs]

I like Terry O'Reilly's quote;"Wing is just a place where you line up".

The only effect is in the defensive zone. Terry was right on.

 

[Fierce1]

IMO, wingers don't spend any more time down low in the corners than centers. The game has changed. Forward positions mean nothing in the offensive zone. Everybody ropes and everybody rides in a cycle game. If anything, it's harder (physically) on centers now because they have to do so much down low in the defensive zone, helping the D win puck battles and protecting the dirty areas.

I see what you're saying, not to pick on Spooner but I noticed he had his troubles last year down low in the defensive zone helping the D win puck battles and protecting the dirty areas. I'm sure at this point that at least half of it is mental and not physical, he has all the ability to be at the NHL level, just needs opportunity and some seasoning IMO.

 

[ODAAT]

I see what you're saying, not to pick on Spooner but I noticed he had his troubles last year down low in the defensive zone helping the D win puck battles and protecting the dirty areas. I'm sure at this point that at least half of it is mental and not physical, he has all the ability to be at the NHL level, just needs opportunity and some seasoning IMO.

I observed his biggest issue was recognizing or anticipating the play in the D-zone and by the time he got in there to help out, it was too late, or he was easily pushed off the puck

Offensively I have little hesitations about his game, defensively, in this system, not so sure

 

[doc5hole]

Spooner blue line to blue line is funny fast, but he uses that Joey Juneau thing too much where he opens up both skates while maintaining straightaway speed along the center boards facing the middle and trying to lure the backcheck into turning toward him to block a pass that he won't make. Then he's gone and they're still. It's been an effective style, but they're onto him in the AHL so he's had to become more middle-rink and weave and all that. The positive side of the coin is he shoots a lot more confidently and eagerly now, and that dimension bodes well for an NHL career. He knows he needs to go to the net more and battle more rather than trying to out-quick the contact. Push comes to shove for him now, no pun intended, but IMO he's another LH shot the Bruins aren't sure about at a glutted position. He's not gritty enough 1-on-1 to play wing in any zone, though he's better suited than he was than, say, a year ago. Barring injuries, I still fully expect he will leave with Bart and Warsofsky in trades, if not before the season, before the 2015 deadline. The Bruins prefer Koko's grit and two-way style.

 

[DKH]

Spooner blue line to blue line is funny fast, but he uses that Joey Juneau thing too much where he opens up both skates while maintaining straightaway speed along the center boards facing the middle and trying to lure the backcheck into turning toward him to block a pass that he won't make. Then he's gone and they're still. It's been an effective style, but they're onto him in the AHL so he's had to become more middle-rink and weave and all that. The positive side of the coin is he shoots a lot more confidently and eagerly now, and that dimension bodes well for an NHL career. He knows he needs to go to the net more and battle more rather than trying to out-quick the contact. Push comes to shove for him now, no pun intended, but IMO he's another LH shot the Bruins aren't sure about at a glutted position. He's not gritty enough 1-on-1 to play wing in any zone, though he's better suited than he was than, say, a year ago. Barring injuries, I still fully expect he will leave with Bart and Warsofsky in trades, if not before the season, before the 2015 deadline. The Bruins prefer Koko's grit and two-way style.

Sweeney alluded to Ryan needs to be able to get closer to the net because that is where most of the goals are scored. He has a very good shot and needs to take it- Sweeney also brought up his 22 game NHL stint and 0 goals, 11 assists. Krejci had a similar statistical start, but notated tough guy David Krejci wil play in the dirty areas. Ryan doesnt have to be Toews or Krejci even, but he must play closer to the net. He is an electric player with the puck, and I like the 'funny fast' description.

Koko has that dog at the park 'relentlessly chasing after a tennis ball' style of game- with the look of satisifaction/this is fun!!! (atleast my dog does); Koko goes to the net, the corners, all over the ice. Someone should hit big on him eventually. His playoff performance was an eye opener, but actually the last 50 games he elevated his game and I believe led all rookie scorers over that span- certainly adding in the playoffs he did. Thirty goals all told as a young 20 year old is impressive especially when we are talking a guy who will give it up to make a play and is not just thinking shoot.

 

[LouJersey]

Sweeney alluded to Ryan needs to be able to get closer to the net because that is where most of the goals are scored. He has a very good shot and needs to take it- Sweeney also brought up his 22 game NHL stint and 0 goals, 11 assists. Krejci had a similar statistical start, but notated tough guy David Krejci wil play in the dirty areas. Ryan doesnt have to be Toews or Krejci even, but he must play closer to the net. He is an electric player with the puck, and I like the 'funny fast' description.

Koko has that dog at the park 'relentlessly chasing after a tennis ball' style of game- with what looks like a smile/this is fun!!! (atleast my dog does); Koko goes to the net, the corners, all over the ice. Someone should hit big on him eventually. His playoff performance was an eye opener, but actually the last 50 games he elevated his game and I believe led all rookie scorers over that span- certainly adding in the playoffs he did. Thirty goals all told as a young 20 year old is impressive especially when we are talking a guy who will give it up to make a play and is not just thinking shoot.

Get over to the HFL and register! You have a top PRO pick in two weeks!

 

[DKH]

Get over to the HFL and register! You have a top PRO pick in two weeks!

Don't worry already talked to Jessie an hour ago and going to set up this weekend. I told Joe to stop trading everyone now I want him to start back up.

 

[rickizbruin]

Are the Bruins really going to have a choice in this matter.

With Bergeron/Krejci/Soderberg at center for the foreseeable future, or this year anyways, where do Spooner/Koko fit in in the near future and Pastrnak a year or 2 down the road.

thats IF.. they are all around in two yeats... does Soderberg want to remain a 3rd line center ? or would some team give him money to move up to line 2.. or even 1?
how much to sign krejci long term? we may need centres in two years.

Also as someone mentioned .. sytems that the team plays has a huge impact on the types of players needed. so a smaller winger may thrive in a speed team where as the claude system.. wingers need to be bigger.

 

[PlayMakers]

He knows he needs to go to the net more and battle more rather than trying to out-quick the contact. Push comes to shove for him now, no pun intended, but IMO he's another LH shot the Bruins aren't sure about at a glutted position. He's not gritty enough 1-on-1 to play wing in any zone, though he's better suited than he was than, say, a year ago. Barring injuries, I still fully expect he will leave with Bart and Warsofsky in trades, if not before the season, before the 2015 deadline. The Bruins prefer Koko's grit and two-way style.

I feel like there's a lot of inconsistency in the Spooner narrative...

How can a team that employed Tyler Seguin on the wing feel like Spooner "isn't gritty enough?" Seguin was flat-out scared, and it's not like he didn't produce there. I don't see fear in Spooner's game. I do see a guy who tries to use what he has and out quick people but I don't see someone falling down on purpose or taking himself out of puck races because a hit's coming, the way Seguin does. I know (or at least I believe) that's what ultimately led to them falling out of love with Seguin, but I also think that move was very shortsighted. Kessel showed in that same Spring that you can grow out of that timidity and become a player who will fight for pucks. They took a big risk moving Seguin and the main piece of the Seguin-return isn't exactly the picture of drive and tenacity either.

If they (the Bruins) believe that playing wing requires much more grit than playing center then why stick their most timid players there? (81&19) Especially when those players were natural centers and believed during their entire tenure in Boston that they were centers at their core. Personally, I don't see it (that wingers have to be grittier). Centers have to engage in puck battles below the goal line (and all around the Dzone). Wingers have to battle along the wall to get the puck out of the Dzone, but the rest of the time they're playing a zone. I don't remember the Bergeron line (with Seguin) having trouble defensively (or getting the puck out) with an extremely soft winger.

Then there's the whole "get to the net" stuff... Did Marc Savard get to the net? Does Patrick Kane? Or do they draw people to them and make plays... I can remember Savard turning away from a puck in the corner in his Dzone because he knew a hit was coming, and I'm constantly amazed at how many plays Kane makes running away from contact. The B's loved Savard despite it, but nobody else can show those tendencies?

I'm also surprised at how they seemed to have suddenly switched allegiances. Koko was traded three times in 2 years while Spooner was considered "off the table." Now they love Koko and Spooner's too soft and too limited to be of use. Why does it have to be either/or? We're a cash strapped team, you'd think we'd welcome all the cheap, high-end talent we can get.


OT: Sorry for the rant. I guess I just see Spooner as someone who could really help this team and I don't agree with the reasoning behind not giving him an opportunity, and it pains me to think they might have already decided what he can and can't do when the kid has less than 30 games of NHL experience.