Severson wanted to stay, Devils just didn’t offer him 8 years.
Not sure that’s “preferred destination” status tbh
The NTC says otherwise.
Severson wanted to stay, Devils just didn’t offer him 8 years.
Not sure that’s “preferred destination” status tbh
That's not the point. Buffalo didn't ignore the defense. Botterill's entire GM tenure was trying to build the defense. He spent a ton of assets acquring Brandon Montour, Colin Miller, Marco Scandella, and Henri Jokiharju. The exact same thing you're saying Columbus is smart for doing. The example didn't make any sense.
Both Davidson and Kekalainen have been consistent in saying the plan is indeed to draft a center.Hope they draft a center with the 3rd pick.
They've been losing for a long time. I think whatever "losing culture" you're trying to avoid may already be established.Provorov is 26y and Severson is turning 29y.
So under 30 goes well here.
Why do these moves suggest it’s playoffs or bust for Columbus next season?
You really can’t see the tire fire they were defensively especially with all the injuries they had?
You don’t want to create a losing culture where it takes 10 years to figure things out.
& as it has been said many times in this thread Columbus is ”finished” with their rebuild via draft phase, they’ve committed to that part already& I’m confused if you have missed that.
They have zero reasons to try be a basement level team next year.
They made the playoffs (as a weak team) for a few years running, then managed to get past the first round and played competitively against the eventual Cup champs in 2019. They lost of a bunch of key players and still got past Toronto the following year in the play-in.They've been losing for a long time. I think whatever "losing culture" you're trying to avoid may already be established.
Also, what's a successful season then? Is 10th in the East considered a success?
NJ just had 4 losing seasons before this year and 1 successful season makes people forget that. This was Columbus' 3rd losing season in a row and added some pieces along the way. I dont see a NJ type jump just yet but I expect it to fairly significant over what we watched last year. Id say we just want a watchable product where people are developing and likely atleast challenge for the playoffsThey've been losing for a long time. I think whatever "losing culture" you're trying to avoid may already be established.
Also, what's a successful season then? Is 10th in the East considered a success?
The young players on the team have only been part of losing seasons. Honestly I don't give much credence to the "culture" factor or whatever. I just don't really see a coherent plan from Jarmo.They made the playoffs (as a weak team) for a few years running, then managed to get past the first round and played competitively against the eventual Cup champs in 2019. They lost of a bunch of key players and still got past Toronto the following year in the play-in.
Since then, they've been rebuilding.
I don't think that timeline constitutes "losing for a long time".
Not the person you're responding to but challenging for a WC spot next year would be certainly considered a success.
The reason that I had hope for NJ taking a big step was that their underlying metrics (e.g. xG%) in 21-22 were actually pretty good. This is not the case with CBJ.NJ just had 4 losing seasons before this year and 1 successful season makes people forget that. This was Columbus' 3rd losing season in a row and added some pieces along the way. I dont see a NJ type jump just yet but I expect it to fairly significant over what we watched last year. Id say we just want a watchable product where people are developing and likely atleast challenge for the playoffs
The reason that I had hope for NJ taking a big step was that their underlying metrics (e.g. xG%) in 21-22 were actually pretty good. This is not the case with CBJ.
Thats fine but how do you judge half a roster using advanced stats like it can give any true representation? Noone knows what this team is even before the Provorov/Severson moves. The team had Gudbranson and Peeke playing 21+ a night and this year its likely 1 of them isnt in the lineup, they are effectively adding 3 guys (Werenski, Provorov and Severson) better than anyone on the roster for 3/4 of the season. Boqvist and Severson are probably fairly comparable though. Then add the fact Larsen to Babcock is a 180 in almost all area's and we are all left guessing at how this is going to work, there is no way we can go off of last season.The young players on the team have only been part of losing seasons. Honestly I don't give much credence to the "culture" factor or whatever. I just don't really see a coherent plan from Jarmo.
The reason that I had hope for NJ taking a big step was that their underlying metrics (e.g. xG%) in 21-22 were actually pretty good. This is not the case with CBJ.
The young players on the team have only been part of losing seasons. Honestly I don't give much credence to the "culture" factor or whatever. I just don't really see a coherent plan from Jarmo.
I think the Habs just overtook us in the last couple weeks; they had a bigger injury wave to close the season out. But yeah.If they aren't number 1 on most injured players or days injured then they are a close 2nd.
My guess would be electronically but maybe pen and paper are still a thing?Sheesh how is CBJ gonna sign their rfas next year?
I've not seen NJ considered that way. Much less pressure there than for the Isles or RagsGreat spin zone but you’re right, its a great market for losers that cant perform under pressure
Only when they lose to the Rangers or the Flyers. Then the pressure starts to heat up.I've not seen NJ considered that way. Much less pressure there than for the Isles or Rags
They've been losing for a long time. I think whatever "losing culture" you're trying to avoid may already be established.
Also, what's a successful season then? Is 10th in the East considered a success?
If anything, I would think you could point to Jarmo not appearing to have plan going in to last year. CBJ was coming off the worst goals allowed in team history and the mantra was they would fix the defense (this was going in to last year) and he did nothing for the defense beyond bringing in Gudbranson - who was expected to be a 3rd pair, crease clearing, heavy body, keep away from our kids, type player. The defense was expected to improve through internal growth. Blankenburg, Bean, Werenski and Boqvist all got injured, Peeke was terrible and playing too high in the lineup and Gudbranson was not put in a position to do what he was brought in to do. Gavrikov was good, not great but also had no support beyond an AHL rotating door.The young players on the team have only been part of losing seasons. Honestly I don't give much credence to the "culture" factor or whatever. I just don't really see a coherent plan from Jarmo.
The reason that I had hope for NJ taking a big step was that their underlying metrics (e.g. xG%) in 21-22 were actually pretty good. This is not the case with CBJ.
What do you mean losing for a long time?
They drafted 12th overall a year ago and were a consistent playoff team few years ago
That’s not the same as being a basement level team for years.
I mean, the defense is improved. But these moves suggest an organizational ethos of "playoffs" now. Realistically is that going to happen?If anything, I would think you could point to Jarmo not appearing to have plan going in to last year. CBJ was coming off the worst goals allowed in team history and the mantra was they would fix the defense (this was going in to last year) and he did nothing for the defense beyond bringing in Gudbranson - who was expected to be a 3rd pair, crease clearing, heavy body, keep away from our kids, type player. The defense was expected to improve through internal growth. Blankenburg, Bean, Werenski and Boqvist all got injured, Peeke was terrible and playing too high in the lineup and Gudbranson was not put in a position to do what he was brought in to do. Gavrikov was good, not great but also had no support beyond an AHL rotating door.
This year, he finally addresses the defense that will support short and long term with NHL talent that is top 4 talent. This allows the plethora of young prospects to grow and with improved coaching structure should drive improvement. That, to me, is a plan. They haven't sacrificed any of the future for short term gain. They still retain a top 3 prospect pool that can continue to be used for higher end NHL talent and still fill in with the higher end prospects. It's a rebuild and that's not just done with rookies and draft picks. Jarmo has said he doesn't want to be on the outside watching the playoffs anymore but he hasn't sacrificed the long term viability of this team.
Now there are still the "ifs" around development but it appears they are doing that pretty well and the young roster, deep prospect pool and now capable additions to the top end of the lineup should accelerate that, not move to "build be damned" status.
They missed the playoffs three seasons in a row. Not sure what the length of time is required to develop a "losing culture".
I mean, the defense is improved. But these moves suggest a organizational ethos of "playoffs" now. Realistically is that going to happen?
I also don't get the Severson bet for the organization. He's not a big defensive presence - he makes his hay moving the puck and the Jackets ostensibly have a lot of young defenseman in that mold and needing those kinds of minutes. Severson isn't a high-leverage guy. He's taking a slot of a younger player needing softer minutes, and his deal will still be on the books when he gets into his 30s and is declining. If he were a John Marino-type, it could make sense. Severson himself? Not really.
So acquiring prime-age, top-four defenseman are...lose now moves? Is that what you're saying?Losing culture is learnt when you are at the bottom of the standings, a basement level team(tire fire) and you know that.
They were competive last season and drafted outside the top10.
& only clueless people think these are win now moves, pushing all the chips in the middle
It's the distinction between "win now" as in "don't lose as many games so the kids have positive examples to learn from as well as negative ones" versus "win now" as in "we've decided we're going to try to be a Cup contender immediately in defiance of all sense and reason".So acquiring prime-age, top-four defenseman are...lose now moves? Is that what you're saying?