Post-Game Talk: CBJ 3 - Jets 1

[Inanna]

Any big man who imposes his will on others will take penalties.

Sounds like you're describing most thesis advisors....

 

[Heldig]

I don’t know but I’m not going to worry about an event that may or may not happen 2.5 months from now.

And if I was, we're 2-0 vs Colorado, and 0-2 vs Columbus, so I'd prefer our chances against Colorado.

It may not be for 2.5 months but there are only a couple weeks before what we have is what we have. Last chance to strengthen the roster.

 

[cbcwpg]

I'm just glad we don't have to play CBJ 10 times a year....

 

[Gm0ney]

In 2:10 of 5v4 ice time, PP2 (Perfetti, Ehlers, Stenlund, Schmidt and Pionk) had:
5 shots, 9 corsis, 1.21 xGF, 3 HDCF

In 4:46 of 5v4 ice time, PP1 (Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Dubois and Morrissey) had:
4 shots, 7 corsis, 0.35 xGF, 0 HDCF

PP 1 also had 2:06 of 5v3 ice time:
4 shots, 8 corsis, 0.81 xGF, 0 HDCF

This was all blindingly obvious if you watched the game: PP2 would come out for the last 25 seconds of a powerplay and do more in that 25 seconds than the top unit had done all night.

What the f***?

 

[surixon]

In 2:10 of 5v4 ice time, PP2 (Perfetti, Ehlers, Stenlund, Schmidt and Pionk) had:
5 shots, 9 corsis, 1.21 xGF, 3 HDCF

In 4:46 of 5v4 ice time, PP1 (Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Dubois and Morrissey) had:
4 shots, 7 corsis, 0.35 xGF, 0 HDCF

PP 1 also had 2:06 of 5v3 ice time:
4 shots, 8 corsis, 0.81 xGF, 0 HDCF

This was all blindingly obvious if you watched the game: PP2 would come out for the last 25 seconds of a powerplay and do more in that 25 seconds than the top unit had done all night.

What the f***?

Yup our top unit has been all kinds of bad for a while now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again Scheifele is a piss poor HB QB. He can't open up the seam to Conner so we are stuck with JoMo teeing him up. We also now have Dubois instead of playing the bumper exclusively is wondering around thinking he's a qb and long range shooter.

We no longer have clear defined roles on PP1 and of those roles we don't have the correct skill sets for them. We juat have a coach who has loaded all the top players onto the pp and not thought at all about fit and roles.

Here is what I'd do:

Swap Cole for Mark on PP1 as he moves and can open up seams.

Park Dubois's ass back in the bumper spot and get him to be another LS option for Perfetti.

Mark moves into the down low spot and he looks for the center pass or cross ice pass to Conner.

Wheeler goes onto PP 2 in the Perfetti bumper role.

 

[Jets 31]

In 2:10 of 5v4 ice time, PP2 (Perfetti, Ehlers, Stenlund, Schmidt and Pionk) had:
5 shots, 9 corsis, 1.21 xGF, 3 HDCF

In 4:46 of 5v4 ice time, PP1 (Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Dubois and Morrissey) had:
4 shots, 7 corsis, 0.35 xGF, 0 HDCF

PP 1 also had 2:06 of 5v3 ice time:
4 shots, 8 corsis, 0.81 xGF, 0 HDCF

This was all blindingly obvious if you watched the game: PP2 would come out for the last 25 seconds of a powerplay and do more in that 25 seconds than the top unit had done all night.

What the f***?

Really think sometimes the 1st unit is looking for the pretty goal too much, Dubois had a wide open net once and passed it to Scheifele who was covered. Just gotta get back to the basics a little, get a screen and shoot the puck.

 

[WolfHouse]

In 2:10 of 5v4 ice time, PP2 (Perfetti, Ehlers, Stenlund, Schmidt and Pionk) had:
5 shots, 9 corsis, 1.21 xGF, 3 HDCF

In 4:46 of 5v4 ice time, PP1 (Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Dubois and Morrissey) had:
4 shots, 7 corsis, 0.35 xGF, 0 HDCF

PP 1 also had 2:06 of 5v3 ice time:
4 shots, 8 corsis, 0.81 xGF, 0 HDCF

This was all blindingly obvious if you watched the game: PP2 would come out for the last 25 seconds of a powerplay and do more in that 25 seconds than the top unit had done all night.

What the f***?

Basically scheifele has stopped moving... like he moves his legs less than laine on the pp

Pp1
Ehlers-pld-scheif
Morrissey-kfc

Pp2
Perfetti-lowry-wheeler
Samberg-schmidt

 

[DRW204]

Basically scheifele has stopped moving... like he moves his legs less than laine on the pp

Pp1
Ehlers-pld-scheif
Morrissey-kfc

Pp2
Perfetti-lowry-wheeler
Samberg-schmidt

idk about samberg on pp2. i think pionk is still a better option. but other than this might be a good switch up.

wheeler is still the best playmaker and one of the better passers on this team imo, but ehlers' entries are v much needed. it's not like he's a terrible passer either. and i wouldn't swap ehlers in for any of the other Fwds..... go 5 fwds maybe?

 

[KingBogo]

Yup our top unit has been all kinds of bad for a while now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again Scheifele is a piss poor HB QB. He can't open up the seam to Conner so we are stuck with JoMo teeing him up. We also now have Dubois instead of playing the bumper exclusively is wondering around thinking he's a qb and long range shooter.

We no longer have clear defined roles on PP1 and of those roles we don't have the correct skill sets for them. We juat have a coach who has loaded all the top players onto the pp and not thought at all about fit and roles.

Here is what I'd do:

Swap Cole for Mark on PP1 as he moves and can open up seams.

Park Dubois's ass back in the bumper spot and get him to be another LS option for Perfetti.

Mark moves into the down low spot and he looks for the center pass or cross ice pass to Conner.

Wheeler goes onto PP 2 in the Perfetti bumper role.

I don’t think the design is for Scheifele to be the QB. He distributes back to JoMo immediately just as Connor does. Everything now goes through Morrissey without a sideboard QB and Scheifele and Connor are the trigger men. Not sure why you’re blaming Scheifele for this anymore than Connor?

 

[surixon]

I don’t think the design is for Scheifele to be the QB. He distributes back to JoMo immediately just as Connor does. Everything now goes through Morrissey without a sideboard QB and Scheifele and Connor are the trigger men. Not sure why you’re blaming Scheifele for this anymore than Connor?

A quick look at the heat maps clearly show that the plan is to tee up Conner as that is where the vast majority of pp shots come from. So if that is the plan you need a HB QB that opens the cross ice seam. Mark's first role on the pp isn't as a triggerman.

I put Blame on Mark because he is so stationary and doesn't move much. You bring up Conner but he's in motion more and opens up a lane for his shot and as such gets more shots away. Mark doesn't even put himself in good places to shoot hanging out far too wide.

 

[KingBogo]

Well if that is the plan then it is flawed as teeing two players up from the point isn't going to be all that effective. JoMo isn't the right hand to really tee up Mark well anyhow.

I put Blame on Mark because he is so stationary and doesn't move much. You bring up Conner but he's in motion more and opens up a lane for his shot and as such gets more shots away. Mark doesn't even put himself in good places to shoot hanging out far too wide.

I’ll agree it’s flawed but I think you are pointing the finger at the wrong targets. We don’t do anything that creates seams as neither PLD or Wheeler play in a net front bumper position to give a second option instead they are off to the side of the net for rebounds and retrieval. The PP is set up to be static except we don’t pound it continuously on net like it is set up for. IMO bad design for the personnel.

 

[surixon]

I’ll agree it’s flawed but I think you are pointing the finger at the wrong targets. We don’t do anything that creates seams as neither PLD or Wheeler play in a net front bumper position to give a second option instead they are off to the side of the net for rebounds and retrieval. The PP is set up to be static except we don’t pound it continuously on net like it is set up for. IMO bad design for the personnel.

I went and looked at the heat maps and everything is geared towards Conner's shot. But yes our PP doesn't open up the other seams either which is why I get Dubois in the bumper spot and tell him to stay there and work on having a couple shooting options, JoMo, Dubois, Conner for the HB QB and having a threat in the corner that can walk it to the net or who can provide another point of attack for opening up those LS players.

 

[Gm0ney]

Regardless of all the weird lineup choices, if your main PP unit hasn't done anything all night and your 2nd unit is creating big chances, maybe just give the 2nd unit a run...that last powerplay on the delay of game when they trotted out PP1 for 1:40...what are you doing, Bones? Is this holding guys accountable? What happened to that?

 

[KingBogo]

I went and looked at the heat maps and everything is geared towards Conner's shot. But yes our PP doesn't open up the other seams either which is why I get Dubois in the bumper spot and tell him to stay there and work on having a couple shooting options, JoMo, Dubois, Conner for the HB QB and having a threat in the corner that can walk it to the net or who can provide another point of attack for opening up those LS players.

Personally I'd put Scheifele in the bumper position, as he has been the best we have add there. He also has a very quick release which is needed from there. He will also help create seams with his positioning. You keep PLD as net presence going from side to side. Morrissey and Connor stay the same. If you do that then you can put Perfetti on the half wall as he would have 3 options Scheifele, Morrissey or Connor.

Regardless of all the weird lineup choices, if your main PP unit hasn't done anything all night and your 2nd unit is creating big chances, maybe just give the 2nd unit a run...that last powerplay on the delay of game when they trotted out PP1 for 1:40...what are you doing, Bones? Is this holding guys accountable? What happened to that?

The 2nd unit is more effective because they play the way the PP is designed. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more and chase pucks. Much better to design an effective PP that takes advantage of your elite skill.

 

[Atoyot]

Regardless of all the weird lineup choices, if your main PP unit hasn't done anything all night and your 2nd unit is creating big chances, maybe just give the 2nd unit a run...that last powerplay on the delay of game when they trotted out PP1 for 1:40...what are you doing, Bones? Is this holding guys accountable? What happened to that?

I liked the Seattle game where Bowness started the powerplays with the second unit. Not by design mind you, but it could be an interesting strategy. Second unit can do well enough on its own, best chances last night came from Ehlers/Perfetti working together (would love to see them on a line together), then first unit comes out against the other team's second penalty kill unit. Perfetti/Ehlers in very limited power play time also showed how to properly enter the zone instead of the same "give it to Scheifele, let him skate over the blue line, then immediately make a lateral pass to nobody, and when it does get through to somebody they have a man on them already and just get stripped of the puck" strategy that PP1 likes to employ.

 

[KingBogo]

I liked the Seattle game where Bowness started the powerplays with the second unit. Not by design mind you, but it could be an interesting strategy. Second unit can do well enough on its own, best chances last night came from Ehlers/Perfetti working together (would love to see them on a line together), then first unit comes out against the other team's second penalty kill unit. Perfetti/Ehlers in very limited power play time also showed how to properly enter the zone instead of the same "give it to Scheifele, let him skate over the blue line, then immediately make a lateral pass to nobody, and when it does get through to somebody they have a man on them already and just get stripped of the puck" strategy that PP1 likes to employ.

The players are following what is designed. Lateral seam passes upon zone entry work amazingly well when you have a unit firing on all gears. It catches the defense out of position and flat footed. A simpler entry is enter with speed and curl back. The trade off is you let the PK set. Worse is a dump and chase. The puck goes deep but you need to win the pursuing puck battle to gain possession. Players will follow what the coach wants them to do.

 

[Atoyot]

The players are following what is designed. Lateral seam passes upon zone entry work amazingly well when you have a unit firing on all gears. It catches the defense out of position and flat footed. A simpler entry is enter with speed and curl back. The trade off is you let the PK set. Worse is a dump and chase. The puck goes deep but you need to win the pursuing puck battle to gain possession. Players will follow what the coach wants them to do.

It's fine if you actually pass to somebody. We've seen Scheifele do this for years now, he doesn't put the puck to anybody that's open, he just does a blind lateral pass and it very rarely works.

 

[KingBogo]

It's fine if you actually pass to somebody. We've seen Scheifele do this for years now, he doesn't put the puck to anybody that's open, he just does a blind lateral pass and it very rarely works.

Its not blind it is intended to catch the defense not set up with a quick strike. Scheifele is the most notable because he is one of the main guys tasked with carrying in it in. Happens to Connor as well with about the same success rate. I'm not a big fan, but earlier this season they had some quick strike success with it. If the coach wanted a dump and chase zone entry that is what they would do. If you watched the WJC Canada terrorized the competition with quick zone entry lateral seam passes. It is just not that easy against NHL competition.

 

[Potential]

Really think sometimes the 1st unit is looking for the pretty goal too much, Dubois had a wide open net once and passed it to Scheifele who was covered. Just gotta get back to the basics a little, get a screen and shoot the puck.

Yep. The pretty plays are beautiful yes, but if they are coming at the expense of winning a game, is it worth it? The answer should be no.

Depending on the type of game that is being played, sometimes you're able to score those types of goals due to us being able to stretch the d with our speed, but other games this doesn't work and you have change your strategy and just pound it at the net.

This is on coaching, and Bones has to be better with this as often we don't make any adjustments during the game.

 

[JetsFan815]

Yup our top unit has been all kinds of bad for a while now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again Scheifele is a piss poor HB QB. He can't open up the seam to Conner so we are stuck with JoMo teeing him up. We also now have Dubois instead of playing the bumper exclusively is wondering around thinking he's a qb and long range shooter.

We no longer have clear defined roles on PP1 and of those roles we don't have the correct skill sets for them. We juat have a coach who has loaded all the top players onto the pp and not thought at all about fit and roles.

Here is what I'd do:

Swap Cole for Mark on PP1 as he moves and can open up seams.

Park Dubois's ass back in the bumper spot and get him to be another LS option for Perfetti.

Mark moves into the down low spot and he looks for the center pass or cross ice pass to Conner.

Wheeler goes onto PP 2 in the Perfetti bumper role.

Take Wheeler one of the few guys who has actually been producing on the PP off of PP1? That's not a recipe for success. PLD right now is clearly the weak link on that unit and needs to be off of it in favor of Ehlers (Wheeler can be the net front guy). Bowness also commented on making PP changes and specifically said that he didn't like the untimely penalties, if you are making decisions based on those two facts it should be PLD off the unit.

 

[JetsFan815]

he's +4 in penalties taken vs drawn. so idk how you're quantifying "far far into the positive" but +4 is ranked in the 130s for Forwards

the highest in the league is Jack Hughes at +17, Scheifele is the highest Jet at +15.
the lowest in the league is -18, with the lowest Fwd (including D might be an unfair comparison since inherently Dmen take more minors) is -10.

you're right, why are we inventing shit now

And so many of his penalties are just ticky-tacky holding type of calls. It is one thing if you are put in the box for laying a thunderous hit (like the type Buff used to get) or if you're taking a penalty to thwart an obvious scoring chance. But so many of his penalties happen in the neutral or offensive zone. Taking a neutral zone penalty like that in a game where you are only up by 1 where the refs had been calling liberally all night and you should not better is not justifiable.

 

[kanadalainen]

Sounds like you're describing most thesis advisors....

Good advisors make an enormous difference.

 

[DRW204]

And so many of his penalties are just ticky-tacky holding type of calls. It is one thing if you are put in the box for laying a thunderous hit (like the type Buff used to get) or if you're taking a penalty to thwart an obvious scoring chance. But so many of his penalties happen in the neutral or offensive zone. Taking a neutral zone penalty like that in a game where you are only up by 1 where the refs had been calling liberally all night and you should not better is not justifiable.

agreed. which is why i believe he can still maintain a hard/grit game while lessening the minors committed.

Take Wheeler one of the few guys who has actually been producing on the PP off of PP1? That's not a recipe for success. PLD right now is clearly the weak link on that unit and needs to be off of it in favor of Ehlers (Wheeler can be the net front guy). Bowness also commented on making PP changes and specifically said that he didn't like the untimely penalties, if you are making decisions based on those two facts it should be PLD off the unit.

i agree with ehlers being on. just not sure about PLD being removed. PLD is another FO option and better scoring option than wheeler, & still would be great net front and his typical garbage-goal offense.

 

[LowLefty]

Yup our top unit has been all kinds of bad for a while now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again Scheifele is a piss poor HB QB. He can't open up the seam to Conner so we are stuck with JoMo teeing him up. We also now have Dubois instead of playing the bumper exclusively is wondering around thinking he's a qb and long range shooter.

We no longer have clear defined roles on PP1 and of those roles we don't have the correct skill sets for them. We juat have a coach who has loaded all the top players onto the pp and not thought at all about fit and roles.

Here is what I'd do:

Swap Cole for Mark on PP1 as he moves and can open up seams.

Park Dubois's ass back in the bumper spot and get him to be another LS option for Perfetti.

Mark moves into the down low spot and he looks for the center pass or cross ice pass to Conner.

Wheeler goes onto PP 2 in the Perfetti bumper role.

I'd give this a look -
I agree that Mark on the left side is slowing things down if anything - he spends too much time evaluating the options.
Cole would be interesting just to see how quickly he can make decisions and move the puck -
Wheeler is also the guy I would move to PP2 - some nights he looks ok out there - but most he appears to be nothing more than a bumper back to 55 - I'd move him net front (PP2) where he has shown decent hands and a good stick.

Whatever we do, we need to get away from stationary bodies out there - the only statue we need is PLD in front.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Not to beat a dead horse here but for me one of the main differentiators between this team and the 17-18 pack of wolves team is physicality. We have a lot of size and I think capability to be more physical, but we're just not doing it.

That's reflected in PIM's per game - the 17-18 Jets were 16th, and this year we are 23rd.

I'm not advocating taking more penalties, but it is a direct correlation. We have the 4th best PK in the league this year which I don't believe is smoke and mirrors, or only goaltender driven. We seem to have really solved our seam issues and do a great job of not only keeping PP's to the perimeter, but limiting the effectiveness of point shots.

I'd love to see us be more forceful physically when it makes sense. I think that would wear teams down and provide more turnover opportunities. We will likely take more penalties as a result but I believe the ROI is there as our PK can mitigate that somewhat.

Thank you! I’ve been banging that drum for a couple of months. We play far better when we’re actually engaged. Physicality seems to get the blood flowing!