GDT: carrag

[LakeLivin]

Here's what I see after replaying the video multiple times in slow motion:

Aho takes a straight angular line at Fox (perhaps to chip him in a way that he thinks won't get called?) Aho is basically straight up and down throughout contact.

Fox has a straight path up the ice but sees Aho and clearly makes a last second dip to the right towards him before correcting back to the left (perhaps to try to draw an interference call?). Fox's right leg is extended at the point of contact as a result of him dipping towards Aho and then attempting to go back left.

Kneeing is a non-issue imo. Aho never extends his knee and Fox's knee is only extended due to his dip to the right and then back left.

If Fox had continued in a straight line up the ice and there was enough contact it would clearly be interference. But does Fox's quick intentional dip to the right towards Aho effect that call?

And how much should calls be influenced by outcomes instead of just actions?

 

[DaveG]

I absolutely think Aho stuck his leg out in an attempt to catch some part of Fox, which is a normal human reaction in quick moments - not a murder attempt. He can both mean to make contact by any means necessary and at the same time not mean to hurt him. Blaming Fox is pretty comical. I get why they’re mad, but I don’t agree Aho meant to hurt him obviously.

We have a rivalry here. I’m sure they both go at each other hard as star players on their teams.

Gonna have to hard disagree with you here Bleed. The only thing I see Aho do in the situation is brace for the hit and that's after watching the replay 20 some times. If there was any leg that was stuck out (inadvertently at that) it was Fox's. And that wasn't so much Fox sticking his leg out as not having the awareness of where Aho was when he made his move, he just flat out didn't give himself enough time to get his leg out of the way of the player he didn't realize was as close to him as Aho was.

 

[Svechhammer]

Be careful out there. I just got a HFB warning for saying that New Yorkers thinks the world revolves around them on the main boards.

 

[Borsig]

Where's the GDT?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Fox is 10 and 2 looking at the puck carrier at the e of the Benjamin Moore logo. When his head swivels towards the net, all of his weight is on his front skate for that split second. Perhaps that momentum causes him to drift? His back skate then comes down and he tries to push off.

Aho commits to facing up right as Fox begins his movement. Stopping, making the push going forward towards the net and trying to break up a pass on the backcheck is a logical sequence of movements. There's no where for him to go as Fox drifts into his line. He braces for contact.

The more I watch it, the more purely accidental it looks on both sides.

 

[Borsig]

Be careful out there. I just got a HFB warning for saying that New Yorkers thinks the world revolves around them on the main boards.

Did you never play skyrim? You're supposed to ignore trash mobs. They just walk around mumbling angrily at their miserable existence.

 

[moses malone 12]

Gonna have to hard disagree with you here Bleed. The only thing I see Aho do in the situation is brace for the hit and that's after watching the replay 20 some times. If there was any leg that was stuck out (inadvertently at that) it was Fox's. And that wasn't so much Fox sticking his leg out as not having the awareness of where Aho was when he made his move, he just flat out didn't give himself enough time to get his leg out of the way of the player he didn't realize was as close to him as Aho was.

I'll admit it's difficult to be 100% objective on this, given its the Rags and Fox specifically. That being said, I don't see intent to injure by Aho at all. He's defending and it looks to me as if he's establishing position (not leaning or bailing as Fox approaches). He has as much right to that space on the ice as Fox does. A collision becomes almost certain once Aho commits to holding this position.

 

[bleedgreen]

Gonna have to hard disagree with you here Bleed. The only thing I see Aho do in the situation is brace for the hit and that's after watching the replay 20 some times. If there was any leg that was stuck out (inadvertently at that) it was Fox's. And that wasn't so much Fox sticking his leg out as not having the awareness of where Aho was when he made his move, he just flat out didn't give himself enough time to get his leg out of the way of the player he didn't realize was as close to him as Aho was.

Well for me it starts before the hit when he takes that wide stance that prepares you to lean in either direction, then to me he’s makes a move to lean on that leg. He is preparing for contact like you said but to me he wanted some contact….just not this much. He could’ve leaned the other way to try to avoid contact, but then he would’ve been at more risk to get hurt himself so he held his ground. The consequences of it were what they were.

 

[LakeLivin]

Well for me it starts before the hit when he takes that wide stance that prepares you to lean in either direction, then to me he’s makes a move to lean on that leg. He is preparing for contact like you said but to me he wanted some contact….just not this much. He could’ve leaned the other way to try to avoid contact, but then he would’ve been at more risk to get hurt himself so he held his ground. The consequences of it were what they were.

Can I have Where Hockey And Politics Intersect for $100 Alex?

Larry Craig scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You and your passive aggressive emojis aren’t having your way with me today.

BTW...I didn't respond to this earlier but hope you didn't take all this the wrong way.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Well for me it starts before the hit when he takes that wide stance that prepares you to lean in either direction, then to me he’s makes a move to lean on that leg. He is preparing for contact like you said but to me he wanted some contact….just not this much. He could’ve leaned the other way to try to avoid contact, but then he would’ve been at more risk to get hurt himself so he held his ground. The consequences of it were what they were.

I think he's preparing for contact because he knows it's inevitable in that split second and trying to minimize risk to himself. I really don't see him "wanting" contact there... otherwise he could have continued his original line to the middle and gotten a much better piece

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Aho is sneaky dirty.

Oh, okay. Enjoy your confirmation bias. Good day.

 

[Negan4Coach]

I think they're closed.

Yeah I usually hang off 38 or 55.

Not many kite or surf in these areas.

I usually kite from 34 and land at the ramp at 38 when the winds are out of the NE. There ain't a lot of us go in the ocean, they mostly stick to the sound.

There is no way Froggy D's closed yet. Since the Pandemic they've been open year round.

 

[Borsig]

I usually kite from 34 and land at the ramp at 38 when the winds are out of the NE. There ain't a lot of us go in the ocean, they mostly stick to the sound.

There is no way Froggy D's closed yet. Since the Pandemic they've been open year round.

You're right. It was Top Dog cafe that is closed and for sale. We usually eat at oceanas and pops.

 

[Negan4Coach]

You're right. It was Top Dog cafe that is closed and for sale. We usually eat at oceanas and pops.

Yeah Top dog has been closed for years, IDK why. Oceanas has great crabcakes. Try Ketch 55 - the shrimp and grits are amazeballs.

 

[Lempo]

And I’m nothing if not the voice of reason at all times. Everyone knows this.

 

[bleedgreen]

BTW...I didn't respond to this earlier but hope you didn't take all this the wrong way.

No not at all! I was laughing about it.

Oh, okay. Enjoy your confirmation bias. Good day.

I’m not sure where that’s coming from. Whatevs.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No not at all! I was laughing about it.

Oh shit, you did take it the wrong way. There was nothing passive about my aggressive emojis.



I'm clearly kidding

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I’m not sure where that’s coming from. Whatevs.

If your belief is that Aho is "sneaky dirty" then it's much easier to see possible intent in that sort of play. That's fine, I guess. I don't particularly agree; not every guy who plays hard is a rat. But there's clearly no point in discussing it further.

 

[bleedgreen]

If your belief is that Aho is "sneaky dirty" then it's much easier to see possible intent in that sort of play. That's fine, I guess. I don't particularly agree; not every guy who plays hard is a rat. But there's clearly no point in discussing it further.

Well you already said good day and here we are.

I’m as big a fan of Aho as anyone else here. I like that he has that side to him. I just don’t know how you watch the guy for years and always think when he’s got that angry scrunched up face and talking trash that he’s always the victim. He’s competitive as hell, and that’s why he’s the player he is. He’s small, he’s quick but not THAT quick, very good skills but not elite, he’s not one to dangle to get to the net unless it’s Tony. He did he get this far? He’s wants it, he’s got some fire. To be that way you have to be engaged, and hockey is a dirty sport. There’s nothing wrong with some stick work here and there, and getting a piece of guys from time to time. I just think it’s silly to not acknowledge or deny it.

 

[Lempo]

Well you already said good day and here we are.

He's playing for the encore.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Well you already said good day and here we are.

I’m as big a fan of Aho as anyone else here. I like that he has that side to him. I just don’t know how you watch the guy for years and always think when he’s got that angry scrunched up face and talking trash that he’s always the victim. He’s competitive as hell, and that’s why he’s the player he is. He’s small, he’s quick but not THAT quick, very good skills but not elite, he’s not one to dangle to get to the net unless it’s Tony. He did he get this far? He’s wants it, he’s got some fire. To be that way you have to be engaged, and hockey is a dirty sport. There’s nothing wrong with some stick work here and there, and getting a piece of guys from time to time. I just think it’s silly to not acknowledge or deny it.

Was it a dirty play?

 

[bleedgreen]

Was it a dirty play?

I think he meant to catch a piece of him. That doesn’t really factor to how I see the player as a whole because you could take a benign player like TT or Kubalik and they could’ve easily done the same exact play. It’s the kind of play a smaller or less physical guy uses to stay engaged physically. Getting in the way more than bowling you over, but depending on timing has the same possibility of doing damage as this one did.

It didn’t surprise me that he went for some contact, but that’s not the same as calling it a dirty play. He didn’t intend for it to be dirty imo, but the result is what it is and if you intended contact and goes south on you…it’s on you a bit. I don’t really believe in the extremes of dirty and clean so it’s a loaded question for me. I believe in sliding percentages between the two.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I think he meant to catch a piece of him. That doesn’t really factor to how I see the player as a whole because you could take a benign player like TT or Kubalik and they could’ve easily done the same exact play. It’s the kind of play a smaller or less physical guy uses to stay engaged physically. Getting in the way more than bowling you over, but depending on timing has the same possibility of doing damage as this one did.

It didn’t surprise me that he went for some contact, but that’s not the same as calling it a dirty play.

Ok. I have had a lot of trouble parsing what you've been trying to say tbh. It seems like you're implying that basically every competitive NHL player is Low Key Dirty, and if that's your pov I suppose it makes sense.

 

[bleedgreen]

Ok. I have had a lot of trouble parsing what you've been trying to say tbh. It seems like you're implying that basically every competitive NHL player is Low Key Dirty, and if that's your pov I suppose it makes sense.

I guess that wouldn’t be an unfair statement, but it’s not really how I feel. It seems like you want definitive statements that are on the extremes so you can more easily make a “case closed” statement that diminishes or dismisses what I say as folly.

We all have different definitions or markers for “dirty”. Sorry if that’s difficult to parse. Aho takes some shots when he has an advantage or a moment. I’ve seen him drag a leg, or leave a stick in a spot where it’s going to catch someone low but looks accidental. I’ve always drawn a comparison to him and many coaches kids I played with or against. They’re often very smart compared to their peers. I can think of a few of them that were aggravating as hell to play against and they always did little things that could infuriate opponents but rarely got them in the box. He always has came off as a more mild euro version of that.