Confirmed with Link: Carpenter to CGY for a 24 5th

[Chuck Testa]

Barclay Goodrow isn't a plug. Bollig was garbage.

HAHA yeah Bollig was effectively useless.

 

[TheFridge]

Barclay Goodrow isn't a plug. Bollig was garbage.

I'm not comparing Goodrow to Bollig. Merely pointing out bad players get spots on great teams. FWIW, Goodrow and Carpenter have very similar underlying numbers, despite Goodrow playing on a significantly stronger team the past 3 years.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I'm not comparing Goodrow to Bollig. Merely pointing out bad players get spots on great teams. FWIW, Goodrow and Carpenter have very similar underlying numbers, despite Goodrow playing on a significantly stronger team the past 3 years.

Goodrow is not a complete black hole offensively, he has more goals than Carpenter has points over the last 2 years. Every team in the league would take Goodrow over Carpenter, it's not even a fair comparison.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I'm not comparing Goodrow to Bollig. Merely pointing out bad players get spots on great teams. FWIW, Goodrow and Carpenter have very similar underlying numbers, despite Goodrow playing on a significantly stronger team the past 3 years.

These the same underlying numbers Musto used to show Strome isn't a dumpster fire defensively?

 

[TheFridge]

Goodrow is not a complete black hole offensively, he has more goals than Carpenter has points over the last 2 years. Every team in the league would take Goodrow over Carpenter, it's not even a fair comparison.

Goodrow was playing on TB and now has an expanded role in NY, based purely on the contract he got coming from Tampa and winning 2 Cups. His most frequent linemates the past two years have been Gourde and Coleman in Tampa and a lot of time in NYRs top-6 this year with Strome, Lafrienere, Zibanejad and Panarin. How would you not expect him to produce more than Carpenter, who's been out here playing with Khaira, Lafferty, Borgstrom, Highmore and Reese Johnson on this dumpster fire of a team? And please don't come back saying that Goodrow is a better player, so of course he would have a larger role. There's really not any evidence of that. Any difference between the two is marginal.

Goodrow in Tampa: 0.11GpG, 0.36PpG
Carpenter in Vegas: 0.13GpG, 0.30PpG

 

[TheFridge]

These the same underlying numbers Musto used to show Strome isn't a dumpster fire defensively?

I have no idea what numbers he's referencing. Everything I've read on Strome indicates really poor underlying numbers. Strome produces, or has produced historically, far above the expectation based on the chances lines he on generates vs gives up.

Although to be fair to Strome, looking at his numbers now based on your response, he is having the best year of his career. His xGF/xGA ratio is in the positive for the first time in his career (it's been steadily improving every year he's been here actually) and relative to the rest of the team, his even-strength corsi numbers are pretty strong. Overall his 5v5 corsi is only 48% but it's 3 points higher than the rest of the team when he's not on the ice.

Generally, I'd agree that Strome isn't a guy a winning team uses in their top-9. But maybe he is starting to turn a corner.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I have no idea what numbers he's referencing. Everything I've read on Strome indicates really poor underlying numbers. Strome produces, or has produced historically, far above the expectation based on the chances lines he on generates vs gives up.

Although to be fair to Strome, looking at his numbers now based on your response, he is having the best year of his career. His xGF/xGA ratio is in the positive for the first time in his career (it's been steadily improving every year he's been here actually) and relative to the rest of the team, his even-strength corsi numbers are pretty strong. Overall his 5v5 corsi is only 48% but it's 3 points higher than the rest of the team when he's not on the ice.

Generally, I'd agree that Strome isn't a guy a winning team uses in their top-9. But maybe he is starting to turn a corner.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Goodrow was playing on TB and now has an expanded role in NY, based purely on the contract he got coming from Tampa and winning 2 Cups. His most frequent linemates the past two years have been Gourde and Coleman in Tampa and a lot of time in NYRs top-6 this year with Strome, Lafrienere, Zibanejad and Panarin. How would you not expect him to produce more than Carpenter, who's been out here playing with Khaira, Lafferty, Borgstrom, Highmore and Reese Johnson on this dumpster fire of a team? And please don't come back saying that Goodrow is a better player, so of course he would have a larger role. There's really not any evidence of that. Any difference between the two is marginal.

Goodrow in Tampa: 0.11GpG, 0.36PpG
Carpenter in Vegas: 0.13GpG, 0.30PpG

Goodrow is clearly better offensively than Carpenter, all you have to do is watch both players and it will be clear as day.

Goodrow has spent the majority of his shifts with Rooney, and Reaves this year. He has only played with each Zbad, Panarin, Strome, and Kreider for 20mins or less total.

 

[TheFridge]

Goodrow is clearly better offensively than Carpenter, all you have to do is watch both players and it will be clear as day.

Goodrow has spent the majority of his shifts with Rooney, and Reaves this year. He has only played with each Zbad, Panarin, Strome, and Kreider for 20mins or less total.

Un no. Why even make such a ridiculous claim that's so easy to verify?

Barclay Goodrow - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Find out Barclay Goodrow's latest linemates, game logs, advanced stats, player cards, news and analysis from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

He's spent 13.8% of his *even strength* shifts with Strome/Panarin. 12% with Zibanejad/Kreider. His most frequent line has been with Reaves/Rooney but it's comparable to the amount of time spent with Strome/Panarin and Zibanejad/Kreider at 15.6%. And what a surprise, of his 22 ES points, 12 of them have come playing with a combination of Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Strome and Laf. What a shocker.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Un no. Why even make such a ridiculous claim that's so easy to verify?

Barclay Goodrow - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Find out Barclay Goodrow's latest linemates, game logs, advanced stats, player cards, news and analysis from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

He's spent 13.8% of his *even strength* shifts with Strome/Panarin. 12% with Zibanejad/Kreider. His most frequent line has been with Reaves/Rooney but it's comparable to the amount of time spent with Strome/Panarin and Zibanejad/Kreider at 15.6%. And what a surprise, of his 22 ES points, 12 of them have come playing with a combination of Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Strome and Laf. What a shocker.

You can look up his 5 on 5 play on Natural Stat Trick, he has only played with those guys I mentioned for 22mins max, each. And his most common linemates are Rooney and Reaves.

And you are telling me of you take away all his points at ES where he played with good players, that he still has more ES points than Carpenter has points lol. You arent making the case you think you are. The fact that he can so easily play with those players also makes him more versatile than Carpenter, who hasnt been able to gel with skilled players in his career.

 

[ClydeLee]

Too much 4th liner debate but we're all forgetting why Carpenter was really traded

 

[Kevin Musto]

Too much 4th liner debate but we're all forgetting why Carpenter was really traded

22 gonna go in the rafters the day Strome gets signed to an 8 year extension

 

[ClydeLee]

Repeated, but oh well.

 

[TheFridge]

You can look up his 5 on 5 play on Natural Stat Trick, he has only played with those guys I mentioned for 22mins max, each. And his most common linemates are Rooney and Reaves.

And you are telling me of you take away all his points at ES where he played with good players, that he still has more ES points than Carpenter has points lol. You arent making the case you think you are. The fact that he can so easily play with those players also makes him more versatile than Carpenter, who hasnt been able to gel with skilled players in his career.

If you're going to claim the reference, post the link friend.

Dude what? If you take away those 12 points, that leaves Goodrow with 10 ES points. The exact same amount of ES points Carpenter has. I may not be making the case I think I am according to you but I don't think you even know what the plot is anymore.

I would easily concede that Goodrow is a better player than Carpenter but the differences between the two are marginal. There isn't a number you can cite that demonstrates Goodrow is a significantly better player. Like cool man, he has more goals this year. He's also gotten way more opportunity with some really good players. Opportunity that's also very clearly tied to that ridiculously bad contract he got in the off-season. He should be buying Gourde and Coleman dinners for life.

 

[Space umpire]

22 gonna go in the rafters the day Strome gets signed to an 8 year extension

1.75m per year?