Carey Price vs Anze Kopitar

[NHLFutureGuy3]

At the 2005 draft we were relatively ok in the goaltending department. We badly needed a first line centre, a need that, up until maybe Galchenyuk, we still haven't filled. Based on our needs, I was really disappointed that we didn't draft Kopitar.

Now it's 2014 and Carey Price is considered an elite goaltender and Wayne Gretzky just called Kopitar the third best player in the NHL. As well as Price has performed this year, I still maintain that we should have drafted Kopitar for one reason: scarcity. Average goaltenders are a dime a dozen in today's NHL but finding even an average first line centre is extremely rare. I'd rather have an elite first line centre and an ok goaltender than an elite goaltender and an ok first line centre like Desharnais.


Hindsight is 20/20. What are your thoughts now that it's 2014?

Click to read more...

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

We have the best goaltender in the league and habs fan still find a way to complain...

 

[la25ecoupe]

Well, finishing last 5 for one season might solve that Price vs Kopitar debate.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...very happy with Carey...very, very happy...Gainey got it right here...

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

Anyway going for Kopitar will have been such a gamble with our 5th overall pick... Slovenia guy, with 5-0-0-0 in the SHL, almost impossible to compare with the other guys because he only played in the WJCD1 tournament. Nobody could tell with certainty how good Kopitar really was at the draft? He was just a really big guy with a lot of skills, but with a lot of questions mark... Pouliot (if he wasn't pick just before us) or Brule would have been a much plausible option for us. Needless to say it would have been an horrible decision compare to Price.

 

[ottawa]

As great as Anze Kopitar is at his role, Price is just as great. I wouldn't complain if the habs had either one, that being said...I'm happy we have Price.

 

[Agnostic]

At the 2005 draft we were relatively ok in the goaltending department. We badly needed a first line centre, a need that, up until maybe Galchenyuk, we still haven't filled. Based on our needs, I was really disappointed that we didn't draft Kopitar.

Now it's 2014 and Carey Price is considered an elite goaltender and Wayne Gretzky just called Kopitar the third best player in the NHL. As well as Price has performed this year, I still maintain that we should have drafted Kopitar for one reason: scarcity. Average goaltenders are a dime a dozen in today's NHL but finding even an average first line centre is extremely rare. I'd rather have an elite first line centre and an ok goaltender than an elite goaltender and an ok first line centre like Desharnais.


Hindsight is 20/20. What are your thoughts now that it's 2014?

Kopitar + Quick in 2005, any team that added those 2 players to their team would be a contender. Kings are going to get a least 2 Cups from that foundation.

As I watch Kopitar, Mcdonagh , and Quick I think of what could have been if Gainey wasn't so incompetent. It's enough to get angry about.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Columbus :

Gilbert Brule or Anze Kopitar?

Minnesota :

Benoit Pouliot or Carey Price?

 

[Milhouse40]

There's only one player on the ice for 60 minutes.
We got one of the best...and for many years to come.

 

[Agnostic]

Gainey made a mistake.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

We have the best goaltender in the league and habs fan still find a way to complain...

According to who?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

IMO it's not about who is better. It's about who would have made the team better. At the time, Kopitar was the better pick. Habs don't seem to have a tough time finding goalies. But they have fumbled on finding a 1st line centerman for decades. Think about that for a second.

 

[pine*]

There's no guarantee Kopitar develops the same way here either...

 

[Camio]

At the 2005 draft we were relatively ok in the goaltending department. We badly needed a first line centre, a need that, up until maybe Galchenyuk, we still haven't filled. Based on our needs, I was really disappointed that we didn't draft Kopitar.

Now it's 2014 and Carey Price is considered an elite goaltender and Wayne Gretzky just called Kopitar the third best player in the NHL. As well as Price has performed this year, I still maintain that we should have drafted Kopitar for one reason: scarcity. Average goaltenders are a dime a dozen in today's NHL but finding even an average first line centre is extremely rare. I'd rather have an elite first line centre and an ok goaltender than an elite goaltender and an ok first line centre like Desharnais.


Hindsight is 20/20. What are your thoughts now that it's 2014?

Its very simple: Kings MVP is Quick, not Kopitar. Since Quick and Price are as good as each others, this means Price > Kopitar. Kopitar's great. He just isnt as valuable as Lund, Quick or Price.

Regarding what Gretzky said: Kopitar cant be the 3rd best player in the league since he's the 3rd best player on the Kings behind Quick and Doughty. I'd also have several other players instead of Kopitar.

That doesnt mean Kopitar isnt good, he's dominant. Kopitar was dominant in the Olympics. As good as he is, he isnt even in the top 4 centers in the league.

Also...

At the 2005 draft we were relatively ok in the goaltending department. We badly needed a first line centre, a need that, up until maybe Galchenyuk, we still haven't filled. Based on our needs, I was really disappointed that we didn't draft Kopitar.

How the Habs looked in 05 had to have 0 impact on what Timmins and his crew would do come draft day.

NHL drafts arent like the NBA or NFL where teams mainly draft based on needs, as the draftees pretty much have an impact on your team instantly.

In the NHL, that process is generally longer so most team go for best player available. In the MLB, that saying is even more true as the process between the draft and the big league is even longer.

 

[sharks9]

Carey Price without hesitation.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

At the time I wanted Kopitar or Brule. In hindsight, Brule would have been horrible obviously but I'd still take Kopitar over Price personally. But it's close, if Price can play like he did this season for the rest of his career.

I personally believe that a team should never ever draft a goalie with a top 5 pick unless we're talking about a phenom goalie 6'8, incredible puck handler, lightning quick reflexes with crazy stats who looks like he'll break records (because yes there should be an exception to every rule).

Thing with goalies is that they take too long to develop and it's way harder to project how good they will be in the future. By the time they're ready to be impact players, if you're lucky, they'll be 24 to 26 a full 6 to 8 years after the draft. And in the meantime, they haven't given you the same bang for your buck that a young forward with a low cap hit would have given you. And any goalie taken after your top 5 pick can actually end up being better with a much higher % of chance than forwards taken after the top 5.

I just think it's a lot harder to get a great 2-way center of Kopitar's caliber than a good goalie around Price's level. For example, everyone would say that Price is better than Brobovsky, Crawford, Varlamov, etc. But all of these guys can actually have a better season than Price at any given time. It's extremely doubtful that DD/Plekanec would ever have a better season than Kopitar even on their best day against Kopitar's worst season. I just think goalies are so good in the league now. Even an average one is pretty good. The demarcation between an average goalie and Price is a lot less important than any center that's available compared to Kopitar. For example, in any given year a Bishop, Varlamov, Brobovsky, Bernier, etc is traded for next to nothing. You very very rarely see guys like Kopitar available. Statsny might be this summer... maybe. He'll command huge dollars and is like Kopitar offensively but without the consistency, size + selke two-way play.

Nothing against Price. We did go through the growing pains and we're over all that now and he's hitting his prime and he's reached expectations as much as could have been expected. I just look at it in terms of how hard to acquire a player is.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

At the time I wanted Kopitar or Brule. In hindsight, Brule would have been horrible obviously but I'd still take Kopitar over Price personally. But it's close, if Price can play like he did this season for the rest of his career.

I personally believe that a team should never ever draft a goalie with a top 5 pick unless we're talking about a phenom goalie 6'8, incredible puck handler, lightning quick reflexes with crazy stats who looks like he'll break records (because yes there should be an exception to every rule).

Thing with goalies is that they take too long to develop and it's way harder to project how good they will be in the future. By the time they're ready to be impact players, if you're lucky, they'll be 24 to 26 a full 6 to 8 years after the draft. And in the meantime, they haven't given you the same bang for your buck that a young forward with a low cap hit would have given you. And any goalie taken after your top 5 pick can actually end up being better with a much higher % of chance than forwards taken after the top 5.

I just think it's a lot harder to get a great 2-way center of Kopitar's caliber than a good goalie around Price's level. For example, everyone would say that Price is better than Brobovsky, Crawford, Varlamov, etc. But all of these guys can actually have a better season than Price at any given time. It's extremely doubtful that DD/Plekanec would ever have a better season than Kopitar even on their best day against Kopitar's worst season. I just think goalies are so good in the league now. Even an average one is pretty good. The demarcation between an average goalie and Price is a lot less important than any center that's available compared to Kopitar. For example, in any given year a Bishop, Varlamov, Bernier, etc is traded for next to nothing. You very very rarely see guys like Kopitar available. Statsny might be this summer... maybe. He'll command huge dollars and is like Kopitar offensively but without the consistency, size + selke two-way play.

Nothing against Price. We did go through the growing pains and we're over all that now and he's hitting his prime and he's reached expectations as much as could have been expected. I just look at it in terms of how hard to acquire a player is.

You've said it so much better than I could have. Agreed on all points.

 

[No More Subban]

If we had Kopitar instead of Price, I think he would've had the same fate as Andrei Kostitsyn.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

At the time I wanted Kopitar or Brule. In hindsight, Brule would have been horrible obviously but I'd still take Kopitar over Price personally. But it's close, if Price can play like he did this season for the rest of his career.

I personally believe that a team should never ever draft a goalie with a top 5 pick unless we're talking about a phenom goalie 6'8, incredible puck handler, lightning quick reflexes with crazy stats who looks like he'll break records (because yes there should be an exception to every rule).

Thing with goalies is that they take too long to develop and it's way harder to project how good they will be in the future. By the time they're ready to be impact players, if you're lucky, they'll be 24 to 26 a full 6 to 8 years after the draft. And in the meantime, they haven't given you the same bang for your buck that a young forward with a low cap hit would have given you. And any goalie taken after your top 5 pick can actually end up being better with a much higher % of chance than forwards taken after the top 5.

There isn't much of a dropoff between an average goalie and a top 3 one in the league. But how many Kopitars are there in the league? Not many.

I just think it's a lot harder to get a great 2-way center of Kopitar's caliber than a good goalie around Price's level. For example, everyone would say that Price is better than Brobovsky, Crawford, Varlamov, etc. But all of these guys can actually have a better season than Price at any given time. It's extremely doubtful that DD/Plekanec would ever have a better season than Kopitar even on their best day against Kopitar's worst season. I just think goalies are so good in the league now. Even an average one is pretty good. The demarcation between an average goalie and Price is a lot less important than any center that's available compared to Kopitar. For example, in any given year a Bishop, Varlamov, Bernier, etc is traded for next to nothing. You very very rarely see guys like Kopitar available. Statsny might be this summer... maybe. He'll command huge dollars and is like Kopitar offensively but without the consistency, size + selke two-way play.

Nothing against Price. We did go through the growing pains and we're over all that now and he's hitting his prime and he's reached expectations as much as could have been expected. I just look at it in terms of how hard to acquire a player is.

Exactly. It's so hard to find a top line center like Kopitar. It's not as hard to find a goalei to macth Price's play. Not a knock on Price but you can insulate goalies with good systems and goood dmen all the way to a Stanley Cup.

 

[Camio]

At the time I wanted Kopitar or Brule. In hindsight, Brule would have been horrible obviously but I'd still take Kopitar over Price personally. But it's close, if Price can play like he did this season for the rest of his career.

I personally believe that a team should never ever draft a goalie with a top 5 pick unless we're talking about a phenom goalie 6'8, incredible puck handler, lightning quick reflexes with crazy stats who looks like he'll break records (because yes there should be an exception to every rule).

Thing with goalies is that they take too long to develop and it's way harder to project how good they will be in the future. By the time they're ready to be impact players, if you're lucky, they'll be 24 to 26 a full 6 to 8 years after the draft. And in the meantime, they haven't given you the same bang for your buck that a young forward with a low cap hit would have given you. And any goalie taken after your top 5 pick can actually end up being better with a much higher % of chance than forwards taken after the top 5.

I just think it's a lot harder to get a great 2-way center of Kopitar's caliber than a good goalie around Price's level. For example, everyone would say that Price is better than Brobovsky, Crawford, Varlamov, etc. But all of these guys can actually have a better season than Price at any given time. It's extremely doubtful that DD/Plekanec would ever have a better season than Kopitar even on their best day against Kopitar's worst season. I just think goalies are so good in the league now. Even an average one is pretty good. The demarcation between an average goalie and Price is a lot less important than any center that's available compared to Kopitar. For example, in any given year a Bishop, Varlamov, Brobovsky, Bernier, etc is traded for next to nothing. You very very rarely see guys like Kopitar available. Statsny might be this summer... maybe. He'll command huge dollars and is like Kopitar offensively but without the consistency, size + selke two-way play.

Nothing against Price. We did go through the growing pains and we're over all that now and he's hitting his prime and he's reached expectations as much as could have been expected. I just look at it in terms of how hard to acquire a player is.

You would make for a bad scout, sorry to say. You're too short-sighted. You're after quick rewards, while a draft is the opportunity to get pieces for the long term.

Whether Varlamov, Bob, Bishop or whomever else has 1 better season than Price is irrelevant. Whats relevant is how much the 2 fares compared to each others over a long span.

While you took that example to support your argument that a goalie should never be selected in the top 5 (which makes no sense) as a goalie selected later can perform just as well, well, I got news for you, the same is true of all positions.

Lidstrom wasnt selected in the 1st round. Since he's the best Dman the league has seen in the last few decades, this means no Ds should ever be picked in the top 5? How many players selected in the later rounds out-performed guys selected earlier. At this rate, we might as well get rid of the top 5, or the 1st round altogether

As I said previously, that argument you brought up (never selecting a goalie in the top 5) just makes 0 sense.

 

[Agnostic]

At the time I wanted Kopitar or Brule. In hindsight, Brule would have been horrible obviously but I'd still take Kopitar over Price personally. But it's close, if Price can play like he did this season for the rest of his career.

I personally believe that a team should never ever draft a goalie with a top 5 pick unless we're talking about a phenom goalie 6'8, incredible puck handler, lightning quick reflexes with crazy stats who looks like he'll break records (because yes there should be an exception to every rule).

Thing with goalies is that they take too long to develop and it's way harder to project how good they will be in the future. By the time they're ready to be impact players, if you're lucky, they'll be 24 to 26 a full 6 to 8 years after the draft. And in the meantime, they haven't given you the same bang for your buck that a young forward with a low cap hit would have given you. And any goalie taken after your top 5 pick can actually end up being better with a much higher % of chance than forwards taken after the top 5.

I just think it's a lot harder to get a great 2-way center of Kopitar's caliber than a good goalie around Price's level. For example, everyone would say that Price is better than Brobovsky, Crawford, Varlamov, etc. But all of these guys can actually have a better season than Price at any given time. It's extremely doubtful that DD/Plekanec would ever have a better season than Kopitar even on their best day against Kopitar's worst season. I just think goalies are so good in the league now. Even an average one is pretty good. The demarcation between an average goalie and Price is a lot less important than any center that's available compared to Kopitar. For example, in any given year a Bishop, Varlamov, Brobovsky, Bernier, etc is traded for next to nothing. You very very rarely see guys like Kopitar available. Statsny might be this summer... maybe. He'll command huge dollars and is like Kopitar offensively but without the consistency, size + selke two-way play.

Nothing against Price. We did go through the growing pains and we're over all that now and he's hitting his prime and he's reached expectations as much as could have been expected. I just look at it in terms of how hard to acquire a player is.

If you pick Kopitar at 5, it's not a foregone conclusion that Price is not still available later. But we all know Quick was available. As I look at this SC final I can't help but wonder what could have been if Montreal had Quick, Kopitar and McDonagh in their lineup.

Hindsight is 20/20 but that outcome was totally possible. Bad luck, bad scouting, or maybe just part of the Gainey legacy of incompetence.

 

[Camio]

Exactly. It's so hard to find a top line center like Kopitar. It's not as hard to find a goalei to macth Price's play. Not a knock on Price but you can insulate goalies with good systems and goood dmen all the way to a Stanley Cup.

How many teams have won a Cup in last decade with a so-so goalie? Besides the Hawks and Wings, nobody. Both the Wings and Hawks won the Cup because they had a superb team and were able to win despite being overmatched in net. This isnt the norm. Dont say it like its the norm.

It happens but doesnt happen often

 

[Camio]

If you pick Kopitar at 5, it's not a foregone conclusion that Price is not still available later. But we all know Quick was available. As I look at this SC final I can't help but wonder what could have been if Montreal had Quick, Kopitar and McDonagh in their lineup.

Hindsight is 20/20 but that outcome was totally possible. Bad luck, bad scouting, or maybe just part of the Gainey legacy of incompetence.

Nobody in sports is competent at drafting then. Thats why drafts arent a sure-thing. Thats what you get when you draft 18 years old.

The NFL draft guys that are a few years older and still, a big % of the players selected dont pan out.

The NHL drafting younger guys just means the risk for guys not panning out is bigger.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Price is awesome, I'm still a firm believer that drafting a goalie in the top 5, top 10, or even first round is a poor approach. I think a lesser goalie with a top center would make us a better team, nothing against Carey, he's been great.

 

[Agnostic]

I think the bottom line in this argument is this. If the scouts knew in 2005 what they know now Kopitar would have been drafted #2 overall.