GDT: Caps vs Jackets 7pm et Feb 8

4thTierSport

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Feb 15, 2009
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Any blame going beyond the entire coaching staff is wildly misplaced.

There have been way more goals given up like the last one than the random leaker.
 
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IafrateOvie34

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May 14, 2009
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Tell me the decisions you agree with that Lavi has made this past 6 weeks. I’ll wait.

Oh I agree with you, just saying to others it's ok to critique a veteran coach. Personally, I'm very disappointed. He has a talented roster even without those injured and can't seem to motivate them and surely he can see the special teams are awful. His assistant coaches are terrible. I'm not a fan of Murray, Arniel or Forsythe as all. The only thing about Forsythe I like is his mellow interviews, but the team reflects mellow with exception to a few players. The biggest problem for me is not giving our future youth more ice. If we're going to be mediocre, I rather the young guys get the play time to maybe be sleepers in the playoffs with their speed and potential. I feel an NHL coach with his resume should be pushing the GM for needs and I can't prove he isn't, but my fear is we'll get washed up veterans and sacrifice our youth for them. As much as I like Hathaway and Dowd, I feel he relies on them way too much. Hathaway has been one of the best players under Lavi and one of the few that showed up in the playoffs against Boston. At this point he's going to wear down. After watching Lavi get the 2010 Flyers team who made the playoffs via shootout goal against the NYR, I have to cling to hope he'll do that with this Caps team. Earlier in another post I said I supported Lavi in 2008, when I meant to say 2010. Oh, who were some of their heros? Giroux and Leino! They had a veteran team with some youth injections, and mediocre regular season goaltending. So far the 2022 Caps are looking like the 2010 Flyers although I don't think it it will take shootout to qualify. I do hope for similar playoff results :).
 
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IafrateOvie34

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I don’t think GMBM and Lavi are trying to fool themselves into thinking they’re better . I believe they understand exactly what type of chances they have with the current squad.

But you can’t exactly publish that to the fans…..”hey we’re an aging top heavy team with bad goaltending. We’re going to try, but putting together a ‘real’ contender right now isn’t likely, so the goal is to make the playoffs first, then see if we can do some damage”……

I also think minimizing the impact the poor goaltending has had is a giant mistake, not something you brush off.

I understand this and before the season I had the Caps not even making the playoffs based off father time. Then October and November happened. Also, it seems this team gets burnt out after winning division titles President trophies. It seems like historically, the Caps in different eras did better squeaking into the playoffs. After all, the playoffs is where it matters. One thing Locker harps on about is having a veteran team to get success in the playoffs. He was saying this going back to his player interviews. I agree somewhat, but right now certain guys will get worn out by then and it's harder with COVID restrictions and recovery.
 
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Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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Is terribly inconsistent goaltending an excuse?
It's just one among many areas that are below average way too often.
You have often offered this idea that the Caps organization is lacking from the top down in their approach, process, etc…even up to when they won it all, and all that noise was forced silent.
More and more I think that run was a sort of sense of destiny once they got past Pittsburgh. It was a tide-changing, over-the-hump win where the ghosts were vanquished, they could take a breath, relax and get on with fulfilling a life-long goal with extreme confidence. They had all of the guts, all of the depth performances to put it together. It's tough. It's a high bar. It's grueling. Some of that's just narrative but it takes constant dedication to reach higher levels of performance and you wonder about the collective drive. It's been questionable all-around given how much existing skill they've had to work with. More often than not, for whatever reason, levels of improvement have eluded them. Now it's a race against time and the sort of thing if they're not careful can close shut a lot quicker than they realize. It may already have barring something significant.

They're a good organization but they increasingly aren't forward-looking in approach and that lack of vision makes them extremely limited. Part of that is Laviolette and the marriage of convenience in being aggressive today by the most conventional means possible but they still need some vision and plan toward continual improvement. They're not good enough to just show up and grind every day, rinse and repeat. Yet it's not at all evident that perspective exists aside from maybe defense. It's obviously talked about in a way that's very detailed and comes with a high standard and sense of discipline but everything else is like an afterthought. Hard not to question their direction when so many areas seem so dysfunctional. Then from just a core athleticism standpoint I don't know that the window hasn't shut given the general state of Backstrom, Carlson and Oshie. Three key players and ones that increasingly don't have the look of being high mileage in the playoffs barring some sort of magical alignment better insulating them. Best-case all of this adversity eventually leads to a better underlying game but nothing they've said suggests a forthcoming payoff.

With Ovechkin they've had the opportunity to work toward becoming a model franchise. For a while they drafted well from a skill standpoint and it enabled them to sustain a deep, competitive roster. Now? It's hard to believe there's a sustainable, balanced and savvy direction under such tight and unimaginative coaching. Depth players like Sprong and McMichael must provide cheap depth production and it's hard when they're philosophically devalued. When the standard is so high for defense over everything else and yet, oh yeah, he are our sieves in net. Hard times. With stability in net it's probably a lot different but here we are. As far as model organizations go Tampa Bay is right up there. Pittsburgh maybe not far behind from a next man up mentality. Carolina. Florida. Colorado. It's less about youth per se than culture and cohesion. Edmonton & Toronto have youth but the collective cohesion isn't there. It's a high bar but those final finishing touches haven't been there and they increasingly seem to be weakening across the board.
 
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traparatus

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Oct 19, 2012
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It's just one among many areas that are below average way too often.

More and more I think that run was a sort of sense of destiny once they got past Pittsburgh. It was a tide-changing, over-the-hump win where the ghosts were vanquished, they could take a breath, relax and get on with fulfilling a life-long goal with extreme confidence. They had all of the guts, all of the depth performances to put it together. It's tough. It's a high bar. It's grueling. Some of that's just narrative but it takes constant dedication to reach higher levels of performance and you wonder about the collective drive. It's been questionable all-around given how much existing skill they've had to work with. More often than not, for whatever reason, levels of improvement have eluded them. Now it's a race against time and the sort of thing if they're not careful can close shut a lot quicker than they realize. It may already have barring something significant.

They're a good organization but they increasingly aren't forward-looking in approach and that lack of vision makes them extremely limited. Part of that is Laviolette and the marriage of convenience in being aggressive today by the most conventional means possible but they still need some vision and plan toward continual improvement. They're not good enough to just show up and grind every day, rinse and repeat. Yet it's not at all evident that perspective exists aside from maybe defense. It's obviously talked about in a way that's very detailed and comes with a high standard and sense of discipline but everything else is like an afterthought. Hard not to question their direction when so many areas seem so dysfunctional. Then from just a core athleticism standpoint I don't know that the window hasn't shut given the general state of Backstrom, Carlson and Oshie. Three key players and ones that increasingly don't have the look of being high mileage in the playoffs barring some sort of magical alignment better insulating them. Best-case all of this adversity eventually leads to a better underlying game but nothing they've said suggests a forthcoming payoff. This is just what they are and, again, it's not acceptable, not enough.

With Ovechkin they've had the opportunity to work toward becoming a model franchise. For a while they drafted well from a skill standpoint and it enabled them to sustain a deep, competitive roster. Now? It's hard to believe there's a sustainable, balanced and savvy direction under such tight and unimaginative coaching. Depth players like Sprong and McMichael must provide cheap depth production and it's hard when they're philosophically devalued. When the standard is so high for defense over everything else and yet, oh yeah, he are our sieves in net. Hard times. With stability in net it's probably a lot different but here we are. As far as model organizations go Tampa Bay is right up there. Pittsburgh maybe not far behind from a next man up mentality. Carolina. Florida. Vegas. Colorado. It's less about youth per se than culture and cohesion. Edmonton & Toronto have youth but the collective cohesion isn't there. It's a high bar but those final finishing touches haven't been there and they increasingly seem to be weakening across the board.

The thing that I appreciated the most about BMac when he first became GM was directness of his approach. Identify the biggest problem, fix the problem in the best way possible with the resources available. Center line up is not competitive in the East? Trade for Eller. Team is desperately short on NHL quality defenders? Get Niskanen and Orpik.

Now it's just so very directionless. Not necessarily good or bad, just missing vision. Players come in, players go out but none of it seems to have a clear cut purpose. This coaching staff doesn't seem to be full of bright ideas, either.
 

Langway

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Jul 7, 2006
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I think MacLellan does mostly know what they need--at least in a basic sense--but he's limited since goaltending isn't readily available at convenient costs. It's not like signing a player given cap constraints or shipping off a couple of second rounders gets the job done. Those were relatively easy, convenient fixes to make. Whereas the standard going forward is likely to be much more difficult. A goaltending upgrade requires much more heavy lifting and restructuring. Hard to do when there likely aren't a lot of takers for Hagelin or Schultz. Doubly hard when not many clear upgrades are even available. Still, it's not a new or unforeseen issue. It would be a lot more survivable, at least in the regular season, if they just had functional special teams.

The lack of vision in terms of style and player types is on him. He went all-in on Lavi and this is what you get. Mac needs to find ways to make moves to either smartly contrast those tendencies or aid them. I'm guessing he just aids them further but that seems destined to lead to a meek exit.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Feb 27, 2002
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The thing that I appreciated the most about BMac when he first became GM was directness of his approach. Identify the biggest problem, fix the problem in the best way possible with the resources available. Center line up is not competitive in the East? Trade for Eller. Team is desperately short on NHL quality defenders? Get Niskanen and Orpik.

Now it's just so very directionless. Not necessarily good or bad, just missing vision. Players come in, players go out but none of it seems to have a clear cut purpose. This coaching staff doesn't seem to be full of bright ideas, either.

It’s because their problems are not so easily and directly addressed today. It’s not as simple as “go out and sign 2 UFAs”.

What trade fixes the PP or the PK? Goalie is addressable, at a potentially great cost or by taking a flyer on Holtby or someone similar but not an instant fix likely.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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It's just one among many areas that are below average way too often.

More and more I think that run was a sort of sense of destiny once they got past Pittsburgh. It was a tide-changing, over-the-hump win where the ghosts were vanquished, they could take a breath, relax and get on with fulfilling a life-long goal with extreme confidence. They had all of the guts, all of the depth performances to put it together. It's tough. It's a high bar. It's grueling. Some of that's just narrative but it takes constant dedication to reach higher levels of performance and you wonder about the collective drive. It's been questionable all-around given how much existing skill they've had to work with. More often than not, for whatever reason, levels of improvement have eluded them. Now it's a race against time and the sort of thing if they're not careful can close shut a lot quicker than they realize. It may already have barring something significant.

They're a good organization but they increasingly aren't forward-looking in approach and that lack of vision makes them extremely limited. Part of that is Laviolette and the marriage of convenience in being aggressive today by the most conventional means possible but they still need some vision and plan toward continual improvement. They're not good enough to just show up and grind every day, rinse and repeat. Yet it's not at all evident that perspective exists aside from maybe defense. It's obviously talked about in a way that's very detailed and comes with a high standard and sense of discipline but everything else is like an afterthought. Hard not to question their direction when so many areas seem so dysfunctional. Then from just a core athleticism standpoint I don't know that the window hasn't shut given the general state of Backstrom, Carlson and Oshie. Three key players and ones that increasingly don't have the look of being high mileage in the playoffs barring some sort of magical alignment better insulating them. Best-case all of this adversity eventually leads to a better underlying game but nothing they've said suggests a forthcoming payoff.

With Ovechkin they've had the opportunity to work toward becoming a model franchise. For a while they drafted well from a skill standpoint and it enabled them to sustain a deep, competitive roster. Now? It's hard to believe there's a sustainable, balanced and savvy direction under such tight and unimaginative coaching. Depth players like Sprong and McMichael must provide cheap depth production and it's hard when they're philosophically devalued. When the standard is so high for defense over everything else and yet, oh yeah, he are our sieves in net. Hard times. With stability in net it's probably a lot different but here we are. As far as model organizations go Tampa Bay is right up there. Pittsburgh maybe not far behind from a next man up mentality. Carolina. Florida. Colorado. It's less about youth per se than culture and cohesion. Edmonton & Toronto have youth but the collective cohesion isn't there. It's a high bar but those final finishing touches haven't been there and they increasingly seem to be weakening across the board.

I feel like you did exactly what I expected…..picked your examples as the most deep franchises with loads of rising or established, young talent.

Those same franchises went through massive downturns for a long time, drafted a lot of top talent with largely high draft picks, and now here they are, suddenly the shining examples? I don’t buy it.

Tampa, is the only one I hold in regard honestly. Pittsburgh just has a fantastic Head Coach. Most of them are just realizing the fruits of sucking and getting great draft picks/players.

Sports are cyclical…..The Caps had their peak and are now on the downslope trying to pedal fast enough to stay near the top.

To stay near that top, they probably need massive roster moves that they’re unlikely to want to make.
 

Langway

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Jul 7, 2006
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I feel like you did exactly what I expected…..picked your examples as the most deep franchises with loads of rising or established, young talent.
Tampa Bay is not so young these days. Sure, youth is part of it but it's not distinguishing given examples that have it but don't surround it well. It's more about self-knowledge and being wise enough to cover every base and put in the work to maximize players. The Caps punted on goaltending, haven't managed to develop their younger guys fully and it's bit them. But goaltending has nothing to do with a historically bad at times PP. If they lack confidence it's still ultimately mental and on them to adapt. They're just not that easily dominant to turn it on at will and so the muddle is likely here to stay.

With Florida it was also hiring a new GM in Zito and building a distinct attacking identity. He's been very shrewd with some of his signings and trades the past few seasons. He's bearing the fruit of some down years but there's a lot more there. Same with Carolina. Their only high pick is Svechnikov, right? Just one component and that's less than a TOR/EDM. Forward-looking and well-run organizations are mostly fundamentally well-coached attacking teams. With Laviolette so much on-puck play seems to get glossed over that it's hard to believe in their decision-making ultimately cutting it. It is cyclical. Time will tell how long some of these elite teams are able to continue to remain near the top. Most every franchise has their down times. Detroit for a while was an exception but the game is constantly changing. They need to do a much better job when it comes to athleticism, speed and hockey IQ IMO from top to bottom. As-is their M.O. is defense and checking but very unlikely to be dynamic enough when it matters. Realistically they probably could stand to gut some of their forwards, add a legit goaltender and play the same basic style minus some choppy flourishes here and there. They're veering toward one- or two-dimensional and age alone doesn't account for it.

Mostly a big part of them having more regular season success was a greater resourcefulness in utilizing depth players and getting production throughout the lineup. That is philosophically apparently not a current objective and so the direction almost in all facets has to be called into question.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Feb 27, 2002
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Well I did say “loads of rising or established young talent. ;)

Tampa isn’t exactly old….not when they keep hitting deep in the draft.

Caps once had a “distinct attacking identity”……they were called the Young Guns. Couldn’t find a way to win with that style unfortunately….
 

Empty Goal Net

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Feb 13, 2010
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Age doesn't explain the relatively high incidence of off-target passes, misguided pinches by dmen (often accompanied by late coverage by the responsible forward), inefficient zone entries, on-ice wimpiness, sagging d, laughably static approach to the PP, and so forth. How many seasons is it that we've hoped they can turn it on for the 'loffs?

It's one thing when a team is playing the right way, but losing due to unlucky bounces or other off-the-wall reasons. Caps got some good bounces on their way to the Cup victory, but happened to have a solid foundation in place to take advantage of those bounces. That ain't the case this season. Does anyone think they're playing the right way? [If any of the coaching staff were to answer affirmatively, that'd be grounds for immediate dismissal.]

To quote GWB, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ... won't get fooled again."
 

PlushMinus

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Nov 18, 2021
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Age doesn't explain the relatively high incidence of off-target passes, misguided pinches by dmen (often accompanied by late coverage by the responsible forward), inefficient zone entries, on-ice wimpiness, sagging d, laughably static approach to the PP, and so forth. How many seasons is it that we've hoped they can turn it on for the 'loffs?

It's one thing when a team is playing the right way, but losing due to unlucky bounces or other off-the-wall reasons. Caps got some good bounces on their way to the Cup victory, but happened to have a solid foundation in place to take advantage of those bounces. That ain't the case this season. Does anyone think they're playing the right way? [If any of the coaching staff were to answer affirmatively, that'd be grounds for immediate dismissal.]

To quote GWB, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ... won't get fooled again."

Every damn season in the last 15 years. And the reward is one Cup.

THAT is why I get so frustrated by the Caps (coaching / mgmt / ownership) and at times by the comments on here suggesting that there is too much "doom and gloom" and negativity.
 

Empty Goal Net

I don't smell disgusting, musky, and rancid
Feb 13, 2010
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One Championship is more than most get in a lifetime.
By my quick count, 17 different teams won the Cup over the past 33 years. That's >half the league in less than half an average lifetime. And the league had as few as 21 teams during that period, others being added thru the years.

In which universe is your "One Championship" statement accurate?
 

PlushMinus

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Nov 18, 2021
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One Championship is more than most get in a lifetime.

And I know a lot of long suffering Caps fans would have been super relieved when they won a Cup - but that's still a low bar to set. A core as talented as this one should have had more success, even if it was multiple deep playoff runs, a couple of Finals appearances etc.
I always felt like they needed to win 3 Cups to properly cement their place in history, but that's just my opinion. At the very least it would have been nice just so we never have to be told how the organisation has wasted Ovie's talent - which is the go to rebuttal on the mains, especially
after another season ends with a first round exit.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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By my quick count, 17 different teams won the Cup over the past 33 years. That's >half the league in less than half an average lifetime. And the league had as few as 21 teams during that period, others being added thru the years.

In which universe is your "One Championship" statement accurate?

the one that matters?
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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And I know a lot of long suffering Caps fans would have been super relieved when they won a Cup - but that's still a low bar to set. A core as talented as this one should have had more success, even if it was multiple deep playoff runs, a couple of Finals appearances etc.
I always felt like they needed to win 3 Cups to properly cement their place in history, but that's just my opinion. At the very least it would have been nice just so we never have to be told how the organisation has wasted Ovie's talent - which is the go to rebuttal on the mains, especially
after another season ends with a first round exit.

They’ve already cemented their place in history. “Needing 2 or 3”…..I guarantee you Ovechkin doesn’t think he needs to win more to cement his legacy.

I guess I don’t care if anyone thinks we “wasted” his talent. I know better.
 

PlushMinus

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Nov 18, 2021
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They’ve already cemented their place in history. “Needing 2 or 3”…..I guarantee you Ovechkin doesn’t think he needs to win more to cement his legacy.

I guess I don’t care if anyone thinks we “wasted” his talent. I know better.

lol you have no idea what Ovechkin thinks. Don't flatter yourself. And you don't "know better". It's just your opinion - they're like assholes. We've all got one
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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lol you have no idea what Ovechkin thinks. Don't flatter yourself. And you don't "know better". It's just your opinion - they're like assholes. We've all got one

why are you here then? And you have no idea what my personal connections are, but thanks for your useless perspective.

Get back to spending your valuable time thinking Ovy wasted his career here, and what the all important main boards at HF think….lol.
 

Roshi

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Feb 7, 2013
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Finland
Well I did say “loads of rising or established young talent. ;)

Tampa isn’t exactly old….not when they keep hitting deep in the draft.

Caps once had a “distinct attacking identity”……they were called the Young Guns. Couldn’t find a way to win with that style unfortunately….

it didnt certainly help the process to panic and fire everyone when they lost a series to a insane goalie performance.

i still feel like if we just followed that path we would have succeeded.

thats why im also concerned about panicking and firing everyone again, because history shows that most of the times it doesnt bring the results. It just takes you back to the starting point and kind of throws away couple of years. Building your system with patience, and then getting the hot run and bounces going your way is the path.

Though if its a case like Reirden where you can just see that its not going to work then you need to be able to pull the trigger. But we are not there with Laviolette, atleast not yet.
 

PlushMinus

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Nov 18, 2021
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why are you here then? And you have no idea what my personal connections are, but thanks for your useless perspective.

Get back to spending your valuable time thinking Ovy wasted his career here, and what the all important main boards at HF think….lol.

Haha wow way to over-react, dude.

You're clearly not a marketing guy. Ovechkin has had a PR person since he was - what, 8 years old?? Off the ice he doesn't say a f*cking thing without it being reviewed and approved by your beloved owner / mgmt. Wake up.
Do you really think he's ever going to say "We had way too many 1st round exits - we under-achieved and should have won more Cups". Maybe way in the future when he's retired and not being paid by the owner.
 

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