Post-Game Talk: Caps @ Jets - 8pm-ish EST

[CapitalsCupReality]

You really can’t give Vitek a compliment at all can you? What did he do to you to deserve such a personal vendetta?

I’m convinced VV and Murray insulted this dude at a Jr Goalie camp or something…he’s obsessed.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

It’s Sammy under a burner account!

 

[txpd]

I'm not sure it was designed by our coach. It makes alot of sense though.

If Hershey is playing the same system the Capitals are playing, I am thinking the Caps are playing Laviolette's system. But hey.....maybe thats why they keep Forsythe

 

[txpd]

Yeah I don't like him either. Very interesting to hear that he's also coaching faceoffs, considering how bad the team is at those.

Question. Who do they have that is bad at face offs?

 

[crab]

You really can’t give Vitek a compliment at all can you? What did he do to you to deserve such a personal vendetta?

It’s Francoiswhatever in disguise

 

[Drakon]

You really can’t give Vitek a compliment at all can you? What did he do to you to deserve such a personal vendetta?

He's pretty unbearable on the other board I've seen him post on. Brings antivax stuff into unrelated discussions about hockey.

 

[PlushMinus]

Question. Who do they have that is bad at face offs?

QuantHockey site - team position by faceoff percentage win:

This season- Caps 30th of 32 teams
20-21 season - Caps 22nd
19-20 season - Caps 28th
18-19 season - Caps 31st
17-18 season - Caps win the Cup - 13th

 

[txpd]

QuantHockey site - team position by faceoff percentage win:

This season- Caps 30th of 32 teams
20-21 season - Caps 22nd
19-20 season - Caps 28th
18-19 season - Caps 31st
17-18 season - Caps win the Cup - 13th

Thanks for the data. Let me try this again. Who do they have that is/are bad at faceoffs?

 

[PlushMinus]

Thanks for the data. Let me try this again. Who do they have that is/are bad at faceoffs?

I knew you would do that.

The data shows that collectively the team is among the worst in the league at faceoffs, season after season. Since one player can't take every faceoff, every game, for the entire season, focussing on individuals is less useful than the team's FO win %age.

However - Dowd is traditionally good at faceoffs. Kuznetsov is traditionally below average. This season the new kids aren't doing very well but that's no surprise. They are up against experienced NHL players. That's also why I went back a few seasons, to show
that it's not just this years injury woes etc - it's been going on for a long time.

Instead of you and others always being super defensive about the team and the coaching personnel, why can't we have discussions about areas the team could be better at? If Forsyth is in fact responsible for faceoffs (NHL com shows he is the PP and center coach), then the stats show that he isn't
doing a good job. They brought in Mike Peca last season to address this. I presume he's no longer around, but they brought him in because somebody wasn't getting the results.

 

[txpd]

I knew you would do that.

The data shows that collectively the team is among the worst in the league at faceoffs, season after season. Since one player can't take every faceoff, every game, for the entire season, focussing on individuals is less useful than the team's FO win %age.

However - Dowd is traditionally good at faceoffs. Kuznetsov is traditionally below average. This season the new kids aren't doing very well but that's no surprise. They are up against experienced NHL players. That's also why I went back a few seasons, to show
that it's not just this years injury woes etc - it's been going on for a long time.

Instead of you and others always being super defensive about the team and the coaching personnel, why can't we have discussions about areas the team could be better at? If Forsyth is in fact responsible for faceoffs (NHL com shows he is the PP and center coach), then the stats show that he isn't
doing a good job. They brought in Mike Peca last season to address this. I presume he's no longer around, but they brought him in because somebody wasn't getting the results.

You knew I would do that? Good. Why didnt you want to answer that? Its a basic question. Dowd has become one of the best faceoff guys in the league but he is off his numbers because he has been out of the lineup a lot. Eller is a good 50%+ face off guy. Kuzy stinks and always has. He has also taken almost 25% more face offs than anyone else. So he has an oversized effect on the overall average, McMichael is terrible as you would expect a rookie to be and he has taken the 4th most face offs. There you have the problem with the numbers.

I suppose its reasonable to blame Kuznetsov's career face of problems on Forsythe. Is that how you see it?

 

[tycoonheart]

You knew I would do that? Good. Why didnt you want to answer that? Its a basic question. Dowd has become one of the best faceoff guys in the league but he is off his numbers because he has been out of the lineup a lot. Eller is a good 50%+ face off guy. Kuzy stinks and always has. He has also taken almost 25% more face offs than anyone else. So he has an oversized effect on the overall average, McMichael is terrible as you would expect a rookie to be and he has taken the 4th most face offs. There you have the problem with the numbers.

I suppose its reasonable to blame Kuznetsov's career face of problems on Forsythe. Is that how you see it?

He also posted data for prior 2 seasons.

 

[PlushMinus]

You knew I would do that? Good. Why didnt you want to answer that? Its a basic question. Dowd has become one of the best faceoff guys in the league but he is off his numbers because he has been out of the lineup a lot. Eller is a good 50%+ face off guy. Kuzy stinks and always has. He has also taken almost 25% more face offs than anyone else. So he has an oversized effect on the overall average, McMichael is terrible as you would expect a rookie to be and he has taken the 4th most face offs. There you have the problem with the numbers.

I suppose its reasonable to blame Kuznetsov's career face of problems on Forsythe. Is that how you see it?

That certainly accounts for the bad numbers this season. The improvement to 22nd last season would appear to be a direct result of Peca's involvement. Seasons before that 28th and 31st. Ouch.

I'm not going to pin all of the blame on Forsyth when Kuznetsov himself blew off faceoffs as if they were a win some, lose some kind of thing. But if a coach is responsible for a specialized aspect of the game and the results aren't there, it seems like maybe that coach isn't as effective as:

a) he used to be
b) he could be
c) other coaches who coach the same specialized aspect

My entire statement comes down to the same thing: I believe the team could - and should - be better at faceoffs, and I believe the team's PP is boring, predictable, and easily defended. I'm not the only one who feels that way (about the PP). Even Alan May spoke about it
after the game against Chicago.

I'm genuinely surprised they haven't tried more passing, speed, player movement to generate better scoring chances. It's not like it comes at the detriment of other aspects. Better PP isn't going to mean worse PK, etc.
As I said a few days ago - if they are simply waiting for their regular guys to return and expecting things will automatically improve, then so be it. Hopefully that works. If it doesn't, or if one of these key players is out for a long period of time,
they will be in trouble, and could be left scrambling to change things up - something they could have been doing while those key players were out, since their PP has become among the worst in the league. The current PP has been the same for so long
that they can revert to it with their eyes closed anyway (if trying something different yields the same poor results).

As things stand, the PP isn't costing them games so far in the regular season, so it may not be considered an issue and maybe they genuinely feel it will all just start clicking when they get the regular guys back.
But if they enter the playoffs (yes, a LONG way away, but eventually we'll reach that time of the year) and it's still ineffective and easily defended, it will almost certainly cost them big time. And it will be too late to try and fix it.
Penalties will come at a premium and special teams need to capitalize on the opportunities. Tampa are known for their exceptional PP and PK and it's played a big part in them winning back to back Cups.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Tampa is a lot more talented than us….just sayin.

I’d love some PP tweaks though for sure…

 

[txpd]

He also posted data for prior 2 seasons.

Excellent

 

[PlushMinus]

Excellent

Yes I noticed you ignored the faceoff data for the prior 2 seasons, which (I thought) was a fairly important bit of info when taken in context with the discussion. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

 

[HTFN]

Excellent

Lol so you make them address all your points and then just don’t want to talk about any of theirs

 

[txpd]

Yes I noticed you ignored the faceoff data for the prior 2 seasons, which (I thought) was a fairly important bit of info when taken in context with the discussion. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.

Ok....I just said I am not going to engage on this anymore. Hey, maybe you are right and its Forsythe. Maybe he is the reason the pp sucks.. Assistant coaches get fired everyday and maybe even off of 1st place teams. Its also weird that something like 5 head coaches have wanted the guy on their staff thru 2 different GMs. I see what your theory is. Maybe you are right. Send Ted and email

 

[txpd]

Lol so you make them address all your points and then just don’t want to talk about any of theirs

At some point you realize that its a never ending battle. Nothing I say willl matter. They are right. I dont have an argument. I give up.

I am tired. Honestly. This is not fun. Ive had enough

 

[maacoshark]

CMM doesn't need to be sent down to Hershey. He needs to be given real minutes with real linemates, rather than 10 minutes/night with a revolving door and new partners every two games. We've seen him look dangerous plenty of times, he just needs to be able to build some chemistry and consistency to start converting.

I don't think McMichael is the player that people here think he is. All of the players that have been called up from Hershey are more ready for the NHL than McMichael is.
McMichael definitely needs more time in Hershey.
Of the young players Protas and Leason are the closest to being regular NHLers

 

[maacoshark]

At some point you realize that its a never ending battle. Nothing I say willl matter. They are right. I dont have an argument. I give up.

I am tired. Honestly. This is not fun. Ive had enough

Tired of what?

 

[txpd]

Tired of what?

Tired of the Hagelin conversation and tired of the Forsythe thing. I wont get the final word and so, the only way to stop is for me to stop.

You have to be tired of reading it