Pre-Game Talk: Canucks vs Flames. HNIC. 7PM. Saturday. It All Begins Again.

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Huggy

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Jul 22, 2014
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Feels bad man

just why can't Willie do the right thing and play the Bae Bo Virtanen line that should have stayed together since scoring 4 points against Edmonton last year in pre season.

It's sad and hopeless when we have so few great young players and when we try to et excited for them this terrible coach just sticks a fork in our side.

Painful, and I am actually going to just enjoy boo'ing the coach, tired of him making this team seem 300% worse than it really is.

#freewillie
 

westvandal

Registered User
Sep 18, 2008
278
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Gaudreau was holdout and just signed a six-year, $40m deal....but he must be rusty....skating and practices aren't like games....The Flames need to be careful with him....guys who miss training camp seem to always be behind and then injury-prone.
For most seasons i'd agree, but he just came off a stellar performance at the World Cup. He's already been playing at a higher level than 90% of his peers. He will be fine.
 

StIllmatic

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Mar 27, 2010
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Absolutely ridiculous. Those quotes from Willie are by far the dumbest thing I have ever seen an NHL coach say. I thought it couldn't get worse than running the lines consecutively 1-2-3-4 pattern in the ****ing playoffs, but Willie finds a way.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
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I don't get it either. Sutter has limited vision in the offensive zone, dump to the point and hope for a tip is about as imaginative as he gets. OTOH his wheels make him deadly breaking out of our end and he generates for more high quality chances in transition than set up in ozone. He scores at the same rate on the PK as he does at ES, good anticipation and great wheels, make him almost a breakaway specialist. He should be playing the Malhotra role, it combines his two best attributes (defensive game and breakaways). He doesn't need great wingers, they are mostly wasted anyway.

Does Willie need a neon sign? Or does he just find it breaks his 1234 plan, I don't know. I hope Rodin gets back soon, he completely changes the look of the lines, gives Sutter or Bo a genuine winger

Granlund Sutter Rodin
Granlund Sutter Hansen
Robo bear
Etc

Even if you decide to keep baertschi-Granlund as an item, there are still got options.

Burrows/Gaunce Bo Hansen
Burrows/Gaunce Bo Rodin

I mean honestly, even Hansen with Sutter still seems like a bit of a waste to me. Hansen is a great complementary winger...but he's more of a forecheck, dig up and turn over pucks for good offensive players to work with type winger. At least, i think that's where you get the most out of him. With Sutter as his Center, i think he's probably more like a maybe ~30pt checking winger again.

Plus...he's one of the best defensive forwards on the team, so if you're serious about having Horvat take on that matchup role vs the Getzlaf/Kopitar/Monahan type lines...he's still an ideal fit on Bo's wing from that perspective as well. Not to mention the great chemistry they've shown together in the past (which is all-around imo, maybe even on par with the way Bae-Bo has worked, or better). :dunno:


Granlund with Sutter actually seemed like it had the potential to maybe work, from the little bit we saw of it. Burrows looked promising with Sutter last season. Gaunce makes sense there. Even Virtanen seems reasonable. But with Hansen, i think you can just get so much more out of him with a Center who is a better puck distributor and can do more with the pucks Hansen digs up.
 

rune74

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Oct 10, 2008
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Yeah, because it is a concrete fact that a player is done developing at age 18, we also said that Kesler would only ever amount to be a 3rd line checking centre with a muffin of a shot. Look at how that turned out.

That assertion was a shortsighted prediction based on deployment and his draft year production (0.91 PPG). His draft+1 year saw him put up 1.37 PPG. Believe what you want, but Bo is already a second line centre today.

That's only true if named virtanen or drafted by Benning:sarcasm:
 

rune74

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
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one of the lowest scoring team in history, start out next season by turning your 2nd best offensive center into a grinder.

I mean, wow.

I'm with people here, you try and turn Gaunce into that 3rd line checking center. That's where he'll exceed and be super effective.

I would be surprised if guance got good enough to be a 3rd line center, I'm thinking more a 4th line center.
 

ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
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It's almost like they're trying to create a boring hockey team with no offensive players or creativity at all.

This thing with Horvat is just moronic. You're just shaking your head trying to find the logic in their plan. We've got coaching and management that's actively hostile to excitement.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
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:laugh:

TBH, this outrage at Horvat on the 4th line thing is kinda hilarious.

We're not sticking Horvat with Dorsett and Prust, we're sticking him with Dorsett and Burr.

Even though Burr's lost a step, he hasn't gotten stupider (that I know of). Plus, if you're evaluating Burr on his performance last year, you really are not doing him any justice. Like Dorsett, Burr plays better when he's with better players.

4SNXZ6V.png


14-15
RlKLX4Z.png


15-16
jO4c018.png


G3MMNi2.png

14-15
qGJHmGr.png


15-16
dg1dFqf.png


Honestly, I really don't see any logical reason (at this point of time) to get wound up about this.
 
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CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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:laugh:

TBH, this outrage at Horvat on the 4th line thing is kinda hilarious.

We're not sticking Horvat with Dorsett and Prust, we're sticking him with Dorsett and Burr.

Even though Burr's lost a step, he hasn't gotten stupider (that I know of). Plus, if you're evaluating Burr on his performance last year, you really are not doing him any justice. Like Dorsett, Burr plays better when he's with better players.

4SNXZ6V.png


14-15
RlKLX4Z.png


15-16
jO4c018.png


G3MMNi2.png

14-15
qGJHmGr.png


15-16
dg1dFqf.png


Honestly, I really don't see any logical reason (at this point of time) to get wound up about this.

So Burrows shouldn't be evaluated on his most recent season because .... ?

Burrows and Dorsett are boat anchors compared to playing with Baertschi and Hansen/Eriksson. God bless Burr for all he's done over the years but c'mon, he's not even close to that player anymore.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
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So Burrows shouldn't be evaluated on his most recent season because .... ?

Burrows and Dorsett are boat anchors compared to playing with Baertschi and Hansen/Eriksson. God bless Burr for all he's done over the years but c'mon, he's not even close to that player anymore.

So....

You're not acknowledging my point of both players play better when playing with better players.

And... you are putting Burr and Dorsett in the same bucket.

And... you are slagging Burr by saying he's not comparable to the 14-15 Burr... without acknowledging how much of a cluster last season was.

So many holes... maybe try again? :)
 

CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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So....

You're not acknowledging my point of both players play better when playing with better players.

And... you are putting Burr and Dorsett in the same bucket.

And... you are slagging Burr by saying he's not comparable to the 14-15 Burr... without acknowledging how much of a cluster last season was.

So many holes... maybe try again? :)

Players play better with better players? I agree. That's why I want Horvat to play with better players, not worse ones.

Putting Burrows in the same bucket? No, separate buckets. Dorsett is in the worst forward bucket. Skille is in the second worst bucket. Burrows is in the third worst bucket. See? Not the same bucket.

Slagging Burr because I don't think he's as good as he was 2 years ago? You ... got me? I also don't think Higgins is as good as he was two years ago. Players age and get worse. Reality is a ***** sometimes.
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
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Did anyone ever verify that report of WD being asked to attend some coaching camps this summer in order to learn more about matchups and neutral zone strategy?

And if verified, why does that not absolutely terrify more people?

Not sure if it happened, but coaches are always trying to learn, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. Depends on the quality of the classes though...
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,139
10,094
Players play better with better players? I agree. That's why I want Horvat to play with better players, not worse ones.

Putting Burrows in the same bucket? No, separate buckets. Dorsett is in the worst forward bucket. Skille is in the second worst bucket. Burrows is in the third worst bucket. See? Not the same bucket.

Slagging Burr because I don't think he's as good as he was 2 years ago? You ... got me? I also don't think Higgins is as good as he was two years ago. Players age and get worse. Reality is a ***** sometimes.

You made a left turn again and I'm not quite keeping up with your argument.

But I get that you disagree so let's agree to disagree. :nod:
 

CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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You made a left turn again and I'm not quite keeping up with your argument.

But I get that you disagree so let's agree to disagree. :nod:

Sure. I don't think Burr is very good anymore. Is that slagging him? I don't mean to. It's just sorta ... true. Sorry we disagree I guess.
 

NucksRuleYep

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Feb 19, 2013
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I don't see how we lose tomorrow. Calgary is about to lose another game to Edmonton, they will be 0-2-0. They look terrible. On top of that, there is a HUGE storm in Vancouver tonight and tomorrow. All flights into YVR are delayed. They probably won't get much sleep because as soon as they get here they have to get up and play another game. They will be exhausted. If we lose this game then I don't know what games we plan to win. This is the NHL giving us a free win on a silver platter. EDIT: Calgary just scored... only down by 1 goal now. Best case scenario, this game goes to overtime and shootout! The longer the better. Wear them out
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,139
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Sure. I don't think Burr is very good anymore. Is that slagging him? I don't mean to. It's just sorta ... true. Sorry we disagree I guess.

I'm just saying maybe it's not as bad as it seems?

And you want to argue that it IS bad as it seems.

You are entitled to feel however you wanna feel.

Burr breaking his ankle in 13-14 contributed a great deal to his slowing down.

But Burr didn't suffer any significant injuries between 14-15 and today so considering Burr's work ethic as well as well as the fact that he's a very intelligent player, chances are good that the Burr we saw in 14-15 that scored 33 points is the more-or-less the same Burr today in the 16-17 season.

Horvat is a good player and Dorsett is playing with two players that he respects. An important part of the Canucks future core and one of the 2011 vets and dragonslayer.

Not as bad as it seems IMO.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
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So Burrows shouldn't be evaluated on his most recent season because .... ?

Burrows and Dorsett are boat anchors compared to playing with Baertschi and Hansen/Eriksson. God bless Burr for all he's done over the years but c'mon, he's not even close to that player anymore.

I'd tend to agree with mathonwy here...Burrows really isn't that terrible a linemate to have, in isolation at least. He's not a line-driver anymore, and he's not going to create much offensively himself...but he is still a smart, responsible two-way player who works hard and does a decent job of getting the puck to his better linemates.

To me, that screams Sutter linemate, but it's hardly a disaster to have him paired up with Horvat on one wing.

It's the Dorsett thing that really makes this whole thing insane. If Dorsett were actually a quality middle-6 winger with a strong defensive game, good hustle, and the kind of serviceable offensive instincts that might warrant the sort of promotions Dorsett often gets (ie. if Dorsett were actually the player WillieD seems to think he is)...i don't really see it being that much of an issue to have Horvat playing with these guys.


The thing about being "anchors" offensively relative to Baertschi/Eriksson, is that is true of every other winger on our team who isn't a Sedin. Bae is our 2nd best offensive LWer...for better or worse. Which means, whatever line he is one will be counted on to produce offensively. Which, if you are serious about easing that responsibility to produce away from Bo for a bit, until he can get his defensive game back to where it should be (for his, and the Canucks long-term benefit)...you kind of have to break up that dynamic Bae-Bo duo right now.


I think some people here have worked themselves into a Bo worship frenzy, to where he ought to be given the keys to the kingdom, a letter on his chest, and the cushiest offensive minutes to light up the scoreboard as best he can to hit his 50pts, score his big contract extension, and reinforce that's it's totally okay to put defensive reliability on the backburner as long as you're putting up those points.

I don't agree with that, and i think there is something to the idea of trying to alleviate some of that offensive pressure on Horvat...for now. The player we really want him to be for this franchise's future is always going to have a better/more pure offensive center ahead of him. That Kesler role behind the Sedins, or at absolute best...the Bergeron to someone else's Krejci. There's merit in trying to ease the pressure to be all things to all men right now, and letting him just get back to playing a stout defensive game and letting the offense flow and grow from there. That's kind of thing Bo himself has talked about as his comfort zone since we drafted him. I think that's all a reasonable, long-term beneficial agenda.


It's really just the Dorsett problem that makes no sense to me. Especially when Hansen really is exactly the sort of linemate who fits that agenda to a T. While also, unsurprisingly...having some already demonstrated great chemistry with Bo. :dunno:
 

Josepho

i want the bartkowski thread back
Jan 1, 2015
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I don't see how we lose tomorrow. Calgary is about to lose another game to Edmonton, they will be 0-2-0. They look terrible. On top of that, there is a HUGE storm in Vancouver tonight and tomorrow. All flights into YVR are delayed. They probably won't get much sleep because as soon as they get here they have to get up and play another game. They will be exhausted. If we lose this game then I don't know what games we plan to win. This is the NHL giving us a free win on a silver platter. EDIT: Calgary just scored... only down by 1 goal now. Best case scenario, this game goes to overtime and shootout! The longer the better. Wear them out

You can twist literally any situation to make it look like a team will win/lose a game.

For example: Calgary is going to come motivated after losing 2 tough matches to start. Gaudreau will no longer be rusty and he will be motivated. Vancouver has had a while off and they've adjusted their lineup since the last time they played. It's unlikely that they'll automatically flourish together.

Normally, it just amounts to who the better team is, which, in this case, is Calgary.
 

CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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I'd tend to agree with mathonwy here...Burrows really isn't that terrible a linemate to have, in isolation at least. He's not a line-driver anymore, and he's not going to create much offensively himself...but he is still a smart, responsible two-way player who works hard and does a decent job of getting the puck to his better linemates.

To me, that screams Sutter linemate, but it's hardly a disaster to have him paired up with Horvat on one wing.

It's the Dorsett thing that really makes this whole thing insane. If Dorsett were actually a quality middle-6 winger with a strong defensive game, good hustle, and the kind of serviceable offensive instincts that might warrant the sort of promotions Dorsett often gets (ie. if Dorsett were actually the player WillieD seems to think he is)...i don't really see it being that much of an issue to have Horvat playing with these guys.


The thing about being "anchors" offensively relative to Baertschi/Eriksson, is that is true of every other winger on our team who isn't a Sedin. Bae is our 2nd best offensive LWer...for better or worse. Which means, whatever line he is one will be counted on to produce offensively. Which, if you are serious about easing that responsibility to produce away from Bo for a bit, until he can get his defensive game back to where it should be (for his, and the Canucks long-term benefit)...you kind of have to break up that dynamic Bae-Bo duo right now.


I think some people here have worked themselves into a Bo worship frenzy, to where he ought to be given the keys to the kingdom, a letter on his chest, and the cushiest offensive minutes to light up the scoreboard as best he can to hit his 50pts, score his big contract extension, and reinforce that's it's totally okay to put defensive reliability on the backburner as long as you're putting up those points.

I don't agree with that, and i think there is something to the idea of trying to alleviate some of that offensive pressure on Horvat...for now. The player we really want him to be for this franchise's future is always going to have a better/more pure offensive center ahead of him. That Kesler role behind the Sedins, or at absolute best...the Bergeron to someone else's Krejci. There's merit in trying to ease the pressure to be all things to all men right now, and letting him just get back to playing a stout defensive game and letting the offense flow and grow from there. That's kind of thing Bo himself has talked about as his comfort zone since we drafted him. I think that's all a reasonable, long-term beneficial agenda.


It's really just the Dorsett problem that makes no sense to me. Especially when Hansen really is exactly the sort of linemate who fits that agenda to a T. While also, unsurprisingly...having some already demonstrated great chemistry with Bo. :dunno:

Maybe without Dorsett you can make an argument for having Burrows and his lunch bucket, handle the defenseman style. Put Baertschi back on that line and ya, I can see it working. But when one wing is essentially "dead" (Dorsett) and the other is half-dead (Burrows) it doesn't give Bo much to work with. And I don't think "Bo worship" is a very fair or accurate term to describe what people are saying here. He's not Crosby by any stretch but he's the best offensive option we've got after Henrik and by quite a margin too. I don't think it is asking too much to want him put in a role that reflects that, no? Like why is that such a "crazy" thing to expect? Are we really that used to Willie's stupidity that expecting normal things now seems unreasonable?
 

ProstheticConscience

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Apr 30, 2010
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TBH, this outrage at Horvat on the 4th line thing is kinda hilarious.

We're not sticking Horvat with Dorsett and Prust, we're sticking him with Dorsett and Burr.

The problem is that we're coming off the lowest scoring season in Canucks history, and our coach starts this one by saying: "Hey, stop trying to score!" to one of the very, very few sources of offence around here.

You don't see the problem with that?

It reminds me of last preseason, where Bo, Baertschi and Virtanen scored 10 points in one game, and Willie said: "Okay, let's not do that again. Let's shelve that combo, and maybe come back to it later." Another example is Stecher this year. Outplays every dman we have except Edler, makes things happen on a moribund PP, plays with style, flash, generates offence from the back end, which we're desperate for...and the team says: "Not interested yet. Head to Utica." From further back, remember how seeing Kassian score for us produced nothing but glowering scowls from the GM's box?

This team is run by people who can't even seem to understand what the object of the game is.

If you gave WD the keys to a brand-new Lamborghini, he'd probably get a tow hitch put on it and complain when it doesn't haul bales of hay around a farmyard very well.
 

NucksRuleYep

Registered User
Feb 19, 2013
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This team is run by people who can't even seem to understand what the object of the game is.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. I think Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Willie Desjardins all understand the object of the game perfectly fine. You just happen not to agree with them. People need to chill out. A single game hasn't even been played yet. I'll be laughing if Granlund lights up the scoreboard and Horvat is like +2 and everything runs perfect just as Willie planned. This is a TEAM game. If Horvat is as good as everyone says then he will prove it on the 4th line and he won't be there for long.
 

ProstheticConscience

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That's a pretty ridiculous statement. I think Trevor Linden, Jim Benning and Willie Desjardins all understand the object of the game perfectly fine. You just happen not to agree with them. People need to chill out. A single game hasn't even been played yet. I'll be laughing if Granlund lights up the scoreboard and Horvat is like +2 and everything runs perfect just as Willie planned. This is a TEAM game. If Horvat is as good as everyone says then he will prove it on the 4th line and he won't be there for long.

Is it? Look at their track record.
 
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