Post-Game Talk: Canucks tie it; refs say "You can't do that." Lose 2-1

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carolinacanuck

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Apr 5, 2007
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Torts in his post game presser said something about how all teams go through this and they just gave to stay within themselves and the goals will come.

Ummm...

I agree that all teams go through goal-scoring slumps, but few slumps last a couple years.
 

serge2k

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Sep 16, 2006
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I can't speak to this game because I didn't see it, but in other games I have him actually "losing them" as well. When a game is tight, and he makes a poor read to drop down in the butterfly early, fail to push off in time, get caught reaching etc... he's losing the team games with poor play. The OT goal against SJ, for instance, was bad. I know some disagree, but that was a poor slide and he left too much of the net open. That's on him. I think people are failing to evaluate him properly, so he's not seen as actively "losing" games for the team, but he is in subjective takes and by save percentage.

How many times have you seen Luongo actually outplay the opposition goalie? I recall one 3rd period where it can be said he stole that period and ostensibly, the game.

He's got to find a way to get the team some points in even tight games because VAN is crushing the opposition in possession. Even if they don't convert, the play is primarily directed at the other net. Sometimes that still results in a low scoring game. The team shouldn't have to score at least 2 goals to spot Lu every time out.
No, sorry. Go on about possession all you want but the team is scoring 2.5 goals per game.

Luongo has 4 losses in his last 10GP where he has only allowed 2 goals. He's getting zero support right now. On the other hand the team has 1 SOL when they score 3 or more.

If fans want to whine about a player not living up to their pay then start with Burrows.
 

Bleach Clean

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No, sorry. Go on about possession all you want but the team is scoring 2.5 goals per game.

Luongo has 4 losses in his last 10GP where he has only allowed 2 goals. He's getting zero support right now. On the other hand the team has 1 SOL when they score 3 or more.

If fans want to whine about a player not living up to their pay then start with Burrows.


2.5 goals per game still works if the team gives up 2.22 GA/G, what NYR gave up when they finished 2nd in the PT race, on the other end. Right now the team is giving up 2.54 GA/G. Obviously, this will result in losses.

As pointed out by opendoor, the games where the team only manages 1 goal are not being managed in the same way they were in the past. It's not that he needs 3 or more to win, or 2 to do anything. It's that when he gets 1, he can't carry games into OT, or prevent the other team from scoring. Even when VAN is obliterating the other team in a possession battle. That is unacceptable as well.

The team needs to score more. No question. But Luongo is not doing his part by shutting things down, compared to other starters and compared to past performance. He shouldn't need 2 at least to get a point. Not with this system and shot differential.
 

carolinacanuck

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No, sorry. Go on about possession all you want but the team is scoring 2.5 goals per game.

Luongo has 4 losses in his last 10GP where he has only allowed 2 goals. He's getting zero support right now. On the other hand the team has 1 SOL when they score 3 or more.

If fans want to whine about a player not living up to their pay then start with Burrows.

Yup, the Burrows bashfest isn't far off. Dude can thank the Sedins for his contract.

The Sedins are a strange enigma for this team because if a player is struggling he can be bumped up to their line and almost instantly start producing, but as soon as he's taken off the line he crashes back to earth and reality.

I bet it's a tough juggling act as a coach, can possibly produce a false sense of 'holy hell, i'm a rockstar in this league' if a players racks up the points.
 

ScottishCanuck

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I rage left CDC last night :laugh: Too many people believing conspiracies and bribery relating to the officials. It had been doing my head in for a while anyway. For the most part this place has always seemed to be slightly more sensible.

Burrows can't seem to pot anything at the moment. I know part of that is bad luck with the post, goaltending etc. but he really has to start producing at the salary he is being paid.
 

Tanevian*

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I actually just PVR games now and watch like 50%. Boring. Low scoring. Team has no chemistry outside the twins.

I find less to be interested in about them and more the prospects these days.

Lol.

If the Canucks win these exact same games it's party time. A bounce here or there and this place is ecstatic.

Fair is the weather.
 

Proto

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Jan 30, 2010
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The Canucks right now are the 2012 Kings. It's a really good squad that lacks enough top scoring talent to pull away from teams. After the Sedins, the team is basically a squad of really good possession players who score by volume of chances.

Ideally, there'd be a possession monster/sniper available like Carter was for the Kings. That seems very unlikely, however. I'd probably settle for just a one dimensional sniper at this point, as the sheer number of chances being created by this group would provide ample opportunity for a player of that ilk.

My only real complaint is how the D is playing 2 on 1's. If there's a weakness in Luongo's game it's his lateral movement (bow legs :(), and yet every time there's a 2 on 1, the D is selling out to block the pass in a way that gives up the middle of the ice. The D need to keep their lane in the middle of the ice and just let Luongo take the shooter. This is hockey 101.

Also, I think we can safely conclude Edler is not going to "take the next step" just because he gets 26 minutes a night. I'd love to see him back on the third pairing at 5v5.
 

Proto

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One other note: on the first goal, I thought it was a dumb play by Edler to chase Seguin behind the net. I can't remember why, but I believe he was annoyed about something that happened about ten seconds earlier. Regardless, he went for the hit after Seguin made the initial pass and then hung out behind the net with him. If you're going to do that, you better pin him to the boards and not let him pass back to the weak side like that. Pin him to the boards.
 

thepuckmonster

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Oct 25, 2011
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This is fairly well known.

Lou had a groin injury a few seasons ago (I think 10-11?) where his lateral movement completely fell off the map. He's been floppy ever since because due to the injury (and I presume age) he's lost a lot of flexibility and power to butterfly and laterally move left to right quickly.

This is why I thought we needed to keep Schneider at all costs, he maybe wasn't as technically sound as Luo but his lateral movement was fantastic.

Schneider is one of the best technical goalies in the game. Luongo is faaaaaar from a technically sound goalie.
 

carolinacanuck

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One other note: on the first goal, I thought it was a dumb play by Edler to chase Seguin behind the net. I can't remember why, but I believe he was annoyed about something that happened about ten seconds earlier. Regardless, he went for the hit after Seguin made the initial pass and then hung out behind the net with him. If you're going to do that, you better pin him to the boards and not let him pass back to the weak side like that. Pin him to the boards.

Haha, i love the look on Seguin's face after Edler him him tho. He was like...'dude, the pucks in the effin net already.'
 

MS

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It's not like it's some impossible task to pick up points with even just 1 GF. 14 of the Canucks' 59 points (nearly 1/4) last year came from games where they scored 1 or 0 goals. So far through 20 games the Canucks have only 1 point from that scenario. Obviously you can't expect that kind of thing to happen all the time, but when the Canucks are basically guaranteed to have to score 2+ goals every single time they want to pick up even a point, it makes things tougher than they ought to be given the investment the team has made in net.

Sure, if you look at any given game it seems kind of silly to blame goaltending when the team only manages 1 goal. But over a larger sample you expect the goalies to shut to door on a handful of occasions and that really hasn't happened this year.

Exactly.

If your team is incapable of winning 1-0 or 2-1 games, you aren't going to make the playoffs. Obviously you're still going to lose most of those games, but you need to be getting results here and there. And we aren't.

Scoring is an issue that can be debated separately. But our goaltending hasn't been good enough, and is trending downward in the past few games.

Luongo was easily our MVP for the first half of last season. He's going through a "meh" stretch but it's way too early to write him off. Do you think Kings fans are talking about buying out Quick and regretting trading Bernier?

Say what? Easily our MVP through the first half of last year?

He started 10 of the first 24 games, with a .912 save %.
 

Proto

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I'm not sure I buy any argument that rests on what sort of games a goalie allows his goals in. That seems like a fairly random distribution of luck to me. Short of maybe extreme blowouts, I don't think a goaltender plays altogether differently in a 2-1 game than a 4-2 game. The fact that the Canucks haven't managed to get many points in 0 or 1 goal game scenarios speaks to that bad luck. The goaltending would have to be worse than last season by a huge magnitude to go from generating 25% of points in low scoring games to generating 4% of points in them.

I definitely think Luongo needs to be better, but a 914 5v5 SV% 15 starts into a season isn't awful by any measure. It's not good enough, but on a team that's dominating possession like the Canucks, it's good enough for better results than the Canucks have had. If he was at his career elite level, we're talking about 15 less goals in every 1000 shots at 5v5 (one in every 66.6 shots). If the team gives up 20-22 5v5 shots a game, that's about one goal every three games.

I see a lot of players fumbling passes and taking too long to get shots off. It looks like a team that's struggling to score and thinking about it too much. If they keep playing this way, they'll get the results. I think they'd get better results with another Top 6 forward though...

Heck, if Luongo stayed at this level all year, I'd be concerned. But when you look at how volatile save percentages are over small samples, it's not something worth getting worked up about. I think he's actually looked better positionally the last 15 games than he did the first 10. The D needs to learn to play 2 on 1s though.

Edit: a power play operating at 20% efficiency instead of 10% with four power play opportunities a game would generate roughly the same re-distribution in goals that Luongo returning to elite form at 5v5 would. It would actually generate a bit more, but I'd allow for a bit of a backslide from the 4v5 unit.

I don't really see a specific issue with this team right now, outside of a potential skillset imbalance. Too many similar players for my tastes. As I said, similar to the 2012 Kings team.
 
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604

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Nov 1, 2011
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We continue to rue the day we didn't trade Schneider + 1st for Jeff Carter.

God we need a guy that can score some goals.
 
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