Speculation: Canucks ownership discussion

[MS]

It's odd because I can't imagine a deal actually being straight-up scuttled for that reason. Nobody is going to decide the entire framework of a deal is gone because you had the temerity to ask for an extra pick. Hell, this is exactly what happens TO Benning and he doesn't realize he can do the same in reverse or simply say no.

Once he's committed himself to a deal, he seems worried about losing it.

He just seems like a very unintelligent man who simply doesn't know how to negotiate.

If he wants something, he gets tunnel vision and will pay whatever it takes. Like a 17 y/o kid who sees a crap car with a 'real cool' exhaust and 'real cool' rims.

If something has no value to him, he doesn't seem to perceive how it still might have value to others, and just dumps it for nothing.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Why would they allow Linden to hire a GM who's only hallmark is amateur scouting (and even that is questionable) if they wanted to win immediately? Then stripping away the tools that allow Benning to use the one skill he may be good at, drafting prospects. Pretty puzzling, or stupid IMO.

Because he was part of the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions the Boston Bruins.

The Boston Model, but done Oilers Style, Baybay!

 

[denkiteki]

Basically the aftermath of the lost to Bruins continuing. Ownership probably told MG then to be more like the Bruins (would explain some of the moves and the start of our downward spiral). Then when MG didn't get results being more like the Bruins, we hired their assistant GM to be more like the Bruins.

Problem of course is Benning took care of the draft and now has to try to win now, which means making trades to speed up the process... he clearly is over his head in terms of figuring out valuation in trades or even figure out "fair value" in extending players. Result is a team with very few assets that isn't very good and plays like a Bruins team quite a few years ago... except with a lot less skill.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Basically the aftermath of the lost to Bruins continuing. Ownership probably told MG then to be more like the Bruins (would explain some of the moves and the start of our downward spiral). Then when MG didn't get results being more like the Bruins, we hired their assistant GM to be more like the Bruins.

And it's a crappy business model. It's the difference between asking a team to develop a hoverboard vs. asking a team to re-invent the skateboard.

Can you honestly name a Cup winner since the lockout who won off of someone else's blueprint? The closest you get is Chicago from Detroit.

Good teams with luck win. Bad teams with luck don't.

 

[RandV]

And it's a crappy business model. It's the difference between asking a team to develop a hoverboard vs. asking a team to re-invent the skateboard.

Can you honestly name a Cup winner since the lockout who won off of someone else's blueprint? The closest you get is Chicago from Detroit.

Good teams with luck win. Bad teams with luck don't.

I suspect from owneship there may be a '94 nostalgia, where between the '11 Canucks & Bruins it's the latter who are a lot more like our '94 Canuck team.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I think the Aquilinis meddle enough to be considered a part of the problem. No blame attached, though because the team is his toy and he can do what he likes with it.

Linden's testimony can be discounted, I think. He's proven himself.

MS might be exactly right about Jim Benning and was ahead of the curve on it. The emerging trends from this management group certainly look like they are a band of idiots, fools and Linden(s).

An undercurrent is the fanboy deployment of some guys that are twins. I don't want to name any names and get everybody all peeved off before the weekend but the kindest thing I can say is that I hope they don't fail hard again. At least the other old man has a back up, FFS! No one should be surprised that the billionaire asks too much. Part of this is the players readily excusing themselves, too. It's called "enabling".

This would make sense if there was anything to cling to. But there are no glory days to recall that did not end in failure. Whatever. They are married to their plan and cannot move off it. It's too damn bad, too. The Canucks showed promise when Henrik wasn't playing. They had speed up the middle and two capable balanced scoring lines led by veteran snipers. Nobody noticed. Hank never went to wing, even briefly to support the new lines upon his return. The team slowed to a halt.

Aquilini, try to take pity on your toys and let them attempt to be players again in lesser roles.

 

[Chubros]

Anyone who complains about the current ownership must be too young to remember when the team had US ownership and was at risk of being moved south. Brian Burke wasn't exaggerating that much when he said that all it would take to move the team was a 25 cents and a phone call.

The owners are willing to spend to the cap. They can meddle all they want as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TheWolf*]

Anyone who complains about the current ownership must be too young to remember when the team had US ownership and was at risk of being moved south. Brian Burke wasn't exaggerating that much when he said that all it would take to move the team was a 25 cents and a phone call.

The owners are willing to spend to the cap. They can meddle all they want as far as I'm concerned.

Pretty sure it would take more than that.

As fans, we invest in the team and have a right to complain when the team makes dumb ass stupid mistakes......and if meddling owners are the cause of this, then we have a right to be pissed off.

 

[lawrence]

these picks really havent helped the Canucks much, even if you look back 45 years of drafting, and even if you look at actual percentage of 2nd round picks that pan out.... odds are against us, scoring big with that second rounder.

I'm not too sure why you guys are so upset with us moving the 2nd round pick. Today Tom Rowe literally gave it away, no one cares, we traded in an epic for Gudbranson [mod].

Each trade he made, actually made us better, looking at the roster from the start of the 2014, and even the current roster, i'm not joking, we look much better then back then. YOu guys are still pissed, at least we still end up with a 5th pick, so technically that can be a good rebuild peace.

 

[Phenomenon13]

these picks really havent helped the Canucks much, even if you look back 45 years of drafting, and even if you look at actual percentage of 2nd round picks that pan out.... odds are against us, scoring big with that second rounder.

I'm not too sure why you guys are so upset with us moving the 2nd round pick. Today Tom Rowe literally gave it away, no one cares, we traded in an epic for Gudbranson [mod].

Each trade he made, actually made us better, looking at the roster from the start of the 2014, and even the current roster, i'm not joking, we look much better then back then. YOu guys are still pissed, at least we still end up with a 5th pick, so technically that can be a good rebuild peace.

I agree we should trade the next thirty second rounders for Dustin Brown.
The chances of any of the second rounders having any career let along a Olympian

 

[Ryp37]

these picks really havent helped the Canucks much, even if you look back 45 years of drafting, and even if you look at actual percentage of 2nd round picks that pan out.... odds are against us, scoring big with that second rounder.

I'm not too sure why you guys are so upset with us moving the 2nd round pick. Today Tom Rowe literally gave it away, no one cares, we traded in an epic for Gudbranson [mod].

Each trade he made, actually made us better, looking at the roster from the start of the 2014, and even the current roster, i'm not joking, we look much better then back then. YOu guys are still pissed, at least we still end up with a 5th pick, so technically that can be a good rebuild peace.

"2nd round picks don't work out who needs em" is almost as dumb as saying cap space doesn't matter.

 

[RandV]

Anyone who complains about the current ownership must be too young to remember when the team had US ownership and was at risk of being moved south. Brian Burke wasn't exaggerating that much when he said that all it would take to move the team was a 25 cents and a phone call.

The owners are willing to spend to the cap. They can meddle all they want as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah as if moving a multi-million dollar franchise is as simple as making a simple phone call

There were certainly some big struggles at the time: the team was a mess, the Canadian dollar had bottomed out, and there was no salary cap in place allowing certain teams to spend crazy amounts of money. Often sports teams owners will throw out some relocation talk as hollow threats when they want to get something.

As an owner John McCaw was a rather average absentee owner. Didn't really take much interest in the team outside from the business perspective, but also didn't meddle at all with the day to day operations of the team. And that's the big problem with Francisco Aquilini, he's too much of a fan. And from what little we've seen of him publicly in regards to the Canucks not a very astute one.

Also back to McCaw, you give credit for current ownership being willing to spend to the cap but pre-cap era with Burke the Canucks were operation with a budget of around $45 million. A good ways off from what the top teams like the Rangers & Leafs were spending (around $70-80 million?), but perfectly in line with where the first salary cap ceiling was set. I'd say there's no question that had McCaw remained the owner with the growth in revenues that he'd let the team stay at the cap ceiling.

 

[SgtToody]

Seems like an awful lot of speculation with nothing but conjecture.

Bring back Thomas Scallen!

 

[Cupless44]

Bring back Thomas Scallen!

You are showing your age!

 

[David71]

The draft party is on Friday. Rounds 3-7 are on Saturday. Holding a draft party when your fan base is pissed about half your draft picks getting traded seems pretty pointless.

then the fans should obviously not attend the draft party at all to show their displeasure. a.either benning picks a nice player at 5... or B. trades that pick to move down. or c. makes a big splash at the draft.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'm still not sold that ownership is interfering to the point where they absolve our actual management of blame for the mess that's been made.

Clearly ownership doesn't want a rebuild, that's fine. I doubt they're forcing Benning at gun point to sign bad contracts and make bad trades....

 

[canuckfan75]

The Family is involved. But they are not stupid.

But patience is no one of there strongest attributes

 

[kanucks25]

I'm still not sold that ownership is interfering to the point where they absolve our actual management of blame for the mess that's been made.

Clearly ownership doesn't want a rebuild, that's fine. I doubt they're forcing Benning at gun point to sign bad contracts and make bad trades....

Yeah ownership might be stopping our rebuild but I doubt they demanded that Benning lose value in every trade and give horrible Sbisa/Dorsett type contracts.

Benning might be handcuffed when it comes to the general direction of the team but that shouldn't force him to make moves that are bad in a vacuum.

 

[Domecile]

Team is dummied by San Jose in the playoffs

Ownership scapegoats AV for said dummying

Ownership heavily influences the hiring of Tortortella as new head coach

Tortorella proceeds leading the team to one of franchises worst seasons

Ownership scapegoats Gillis for said horrific season

(Insert media driven meltdown in Vancouver over last 4 seasons)

Ownership hires Linden as a PR piece for said meltdown

Linden hires Jim Benning.

Benning destroys the franchise (TBD)

Ownership is the reason this franchise has spiraled downwards to where it is now.

 

[Pump n Dump]

One is forward thinking, the other is....not.

It's like when Copernicus said the Sun was the center of the universe, and everyone said "Lol, no it's not". And listed their reasons as: because reasons.

Of course, Copernicus was wrong. The Sun is the center of our solar system, not the center of the universe. Toronto is the center of the universe.

 

[Pump n Dump]

Team is dummied by San Jose in the playoffs

Ownership scapegoats AV for said dummying

Ownership heavily influences the hiring of Tortortella as new head coach

Tortorella proceeds leading the team to one of franchises worst seasons

Ownership scapegoats Gillis for said horrific season

(Insert media driven meltdown in Vancouver over last 4 seasons)

Ownership hires Linden as a PR piece for said meltdown

Linden hires Jim Benning.

Benning destroys the franchise (TBD)

Ownership is the reason this franchise has spiraled downwards to where it is now.

It seems that you're missing the part where ownership caused the dummying by San Jose

 

[Cupless44]

Benning is not very good at his job.

But this ownership's mandate is a problem for any GM to do the right thing for state of this team.

 

[M2Beezy]

Of course, Copernicus was wrong. The Sun is the center of our solar system, not the center of the universe. Toronto is the center of the universe.

Toronto?? Wow this could be the worse post ive ever read on hfboards congrats

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Benning doesnt look so bad right now nor does canucks ownership

 

[Hit the post]

Team is dummied by San Jose in the playoffs

Ownership scapegoats AV for said dummying

AV desired at least some of the blame for that curious bench management at the end of the pivotal game where we had the lead going late in the 3rd period. Still think we would've lost the series anyhow in the end - so all the blame on coaching would be clearly wrong.