Canucks Managerial Thread | 6

[thepuckmonster]

Here we go again.

Absolutely pathetic that Benning literally doesn't have a single defense outside of "b...bu...but Mike Gillis!!!! omething something Ballard!" Give me a ****ing break with this ****. Benning's utterly abysmal performance as a GM the last 18 months speaks for it ****ing self. The only thing he has going for him is that it takes 5 years to evaluate a draft and none of his drafts are that old yet. that's literally the biggest feather in his cap, enough said.

I think aside from 3 years (2009-2012ish) our management has blown chunks for the last 20 years. Sure there's been some bright spots but for the most part this franchise has been a management joke since Quinn.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I'd argue even with Quinn.

How do you screw up signing Gretzky?

 

[Verviticus]

Who are you quoting?

im setting up fake humans and then quoting them because i wouldnt want someone to think i hold those abhorrent opinions

 

[Verviticus]

I think aside from 3 years (2009-2012ish) our management has blown chunks for the last 20 years. Sure there's been some bright spots but for the most part this franchise has been a management joke since Quinn.

quinn was also a joke. the canucks have always been a joke. even when they were the best team in the league, they were a joke

 

[thepuckmonster]

I'd argue even with Quinn.

How do you screw up signing Gretzky?

I could be wrong but IIRC ownership wasn't willing to pony up the cash for the trade.

 

[Verviticus]

he called him at like 2 in the morning demanding that he come and sign the contract RIGHT NOW

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...w-york-rangers-toronto-maple-leafs-pat-quinn/

 

[Horrorshow]

I could be wrong but IIRC ownership wasn't willing to pony up the cash for the trade.

He's referencing that time Quinn called up Gretz in the middle of the night demanding he sign a contract with us, instead of waiting until 9am like a normal human being.

Gretzky to Bure, man. Could've been cool.

 

[thepuckmonster]

quinn was also a joke. the canucks have always been a joke. even when they were the best team in the league, they were a joke

Pretty much. Aside from the Luongo trade in 2006 I can't really think of a trade we've conclusively won on since Naslund. Even Bertuzzi came with giving up linden to make room for he who must not be named.

 

[thepuckmonster]

he called him at like 2 in the morning demanding that he come and sign the contract RIGHT NOW

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...w-york-rangers-toronto-maple-leafs-pat-quinn/

He's referencing that time Quinn called up Gretz in the middle of the night demanding he sign a contract with us, instead of waiting until 9am like a normal human being.

Gretzky to Bure, man. Could've been cool.

Ahhh ok. Makes it even more ridiculous. Le sigh.

 

[Verviticus]

the ehrhoff trade was outstanding.

 

[thepuckmonster]

the ehrhoff trade was outstanding.

Right, I forgot about that one.

So... 2 then. Sweet.

We've had a lot of "meh" trades that aren't a win or a lose but 2 home run trades in eleven billion years sucks. Dallas has already beaten that in a year.

 

[canucksfan]

Sedin trade was great

Bertuzzi for Luongo was awesome.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Right, I forgot about that one.

So... 2 then. Sweet.

We've had a lot of "meh" trades that aren't a win or a lose but 2 home run trades in eleven billion years sucks. Dallas has already beaten that in a year.

Well, when you can't spot the sucker at the table ...

 

[Hit the post]

Pretty much. Aside from the Luongo trade in 2006 I can't really think of a trade we've conclusively won on since Naslund. Even Bertuzzi came with giving up linden to make room for he who must not be named.

Dave Nonis: Two picks for Dan Cloutier - have to give props for that (even though it probably was a result of Crawford being the coach of the Kings at the time).

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

everybody hates him now but the Canucks got 3 very good years from Chris Higgins at a bargain basement price, in one of the better deadline-deals in recent memory.

 

[Horrorshow]

Right, I forgot about that one.

So... 2 then. Sweet.

We've had a lot of "meh" trades that aren't a win or a lose but 2 home run trades in eleven billion years sucks. Dallas has already beaten that in a year.

We get 1 or 2 per era.

Quinn: Naslund trade, Courtnall and Ronning from STL trade

Keenan: Linden for Bertuzzi, McCabe, and the pick that turned into Ruutu

Burke: ...uhhh, that jan hlavac for Malik and Langdon trade was pretty good I guess?

Nonis: Luongo (could also count for the Keenan era)

Gillis: Ehrhoff trade

 

[thepuckmonster]

Well, when you can't spot the sucker at the table ...

This goes a long way back before Benning was here.

It's like this organization is allergic to long term competent management. Benning is just another body in that 20 year long string of average-ish to bad management.

Burke might have drafted well and got the Sedins but he proceeded to ruin any cup hopes by never getting a good goalie.

Nonis' one good move was Luongo and that wasn't even his target when he was moving Bertuzzi.

Gillis was able to retain a talented core but failed to draft anything of note for so long and his cap management with NTCs/NMCs ended up becoming a nightmare before we thought it would be. That and the goalie mismanagement of 2013-14 was horrendous.

And obviously Benning's faults have been discussed ad nauseum so I don't think I have to elaborate on that.

 

[Horrorshow]

Dave Nonis: Two picks for Dan Cloutier - have to give props for that (even though it probably was a result of Crawford being the coach of the Kings at the time).

But he negated all that when he traded those assets for 1.5 months of Bryan Smolinski and Miika Noronen.

 

[thepuckmonster]

We get 1 or 2 per era.

Quinn: Naslund trade, Courtnall and Ronning from STL trade

Keenan: Linden for Bertuzzi, McCabe, and the pick that turned into Ruutu

Burke: ...uhhh, that jan hlavac for Malik and Langdon trade was pretty good I guess?

Nonis: Luongo (could also count for the Keenan era)

Gillis: Ehrhoff trade

Burke orchestrated the trades for the Sedins picks so that counts too I guess.

It's still fairly horrendous given what we've given up. ****, with all the picks we pissed away since 2000 we probably could have built a half decent whole new team.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

For the most part I don't disagree, but the much-maligned NTC's and NMC's absolutely helped us stay under the cap and really didn't hurt us at all. The rumour that Kesler limited his trade list to Anaheim is not supported by evidence and we were able to find a taker for Garrison very easily (obviously a team much smarter than ours.)

You can argue Higgins if you want but his 2.5M cap hit is hardly a burden. When you have players signed to reasonable contracts it doesn't matter if they have an NTC because there is seldom a reason to trade them anyway.

 

[thepuckmonster]

For the most part I don't disagree, but the much-maligned NTC's and NMC's absolutely helped us stay under the cap and really didn't hurt us at all. The rumour that Kesler limited his trade list to Anaheim is not supported by evidence and we were able to find a taker for Garrison very easily (obviously a team much smarter than ours.)

You can argue Higgins if you want but his 2.5M cap hit is hardly a burden. When you have players signed to reasonable contracts it doesn't matter if they have an NTC because there is seldom a reason to trade them anyway.

The way Higgins is playing right now makes his NTC look abhorrent.

I have no problems with NTCs but we handed them out like candy. I love Higgins and always have but he isn't the kind of player you give an NTC to, limited or not. Same with Hansen.

Yeah hindsight is 20-20 but I would have rathered overpaying the supporting cast a bit to not have to give NTCs. Especially since we then followed it up with doing absolutely nothing with the saved space aside from keeping Ballard around for 2 more years after he wasn't going to play here. Ditto Booth.

At one point we had Hamhuis, Edler, Ballard and Garrison all on the roster. That's almost 20M in LHD alone which is ridiculous.

Had we used that cap space to actually acquire a game breaker like Carter I wouldn't care about the contract situation. Instead we pissed that savings away on trying to force square pegs into round holes.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

The way Higgins is playing right now makes his NTC look abhorrent.

I have no problems with NTCs but we handed them out like candy. I love Higgins and always have but he isn't the kind of player you give an NTC to, limited or not. Same with Hansen.

Yeah hindsight is 20-20 but I would have rathered overpaying the supporting cast a bit to not have to give NTCs. Especially since we then followed it up with doing absolutely nothing with the saved space aside from keeping Ballard around for 2 more years after he wasn't going to play here. Ditto Booth.

Had we used that cap space to actually acquire a game breaker like Carter I wouldn't care about the contract situation. Instead we pissed that savings away on trying to force square pegs into round holes.

It doesn't matter though. Give Higgins 4M and no NTC and guess what? He is still unmovable. That's the thing. Either a player can't be moved because his contract sucks and there are no takers, or you give him an NTC and keep the salary down. The latter is actually the better situation. Or you can overpay him AND give him an NTC, like Benning, but that's neither here nor there.

Every year teams have to retain salary to dump bad contracts and it's much worse for cap management than giving tweener players NTC's. I think it was actually pretty clever on Gillis/Gilman's part and I think we'll see it more and more often over time.

 

[RandV]

This goes a long way back before Benning was here.

It's like this organization is allergic to long term competent management. Benning is just another body in that 20 year long string of average-ish to bad management.

Burke might have drafted well and got the Sedins but he proceeded to ruin any cup hopes by never getting a good goalie.

Nonis' one good move was Luongo and that wasn't even his target when he was moving Bertuzzi.

Gillis was able to retain a talented core but failed to draft anything of note for so long and his cap management with NTCs/NMCs ended up becoming a nightmare before we thought it would be. That and the goalie mismanagement of 2013-14 was horrendous.

And obviously Benning's faults have been discussed ad nauseum so I don't think I have to elaborate on that.

You actually have to commit to someone long term to have have "long term competent management". All GM's are going to make mistakes at some point or another, you're not supposed to fire them if they have one bad year like you would a coach.

 

[thepuckmonster]

It doesn't matter though. Give Higgins 4M and no NTC and guess what? He is still unmovable. That's the thing. Either a player can't be moved because his contract sucks and there are no takers, or you give him an NTC and keep the salary down. The latter is actually the better situation. Or you can overpay him AND give him an NTC, like Benning, but that's neither here nor there.

Every year teams have to retain salary to dump bad contracts and it's much worse for cap management than giving tweener players NTC's. I think it was actually pretty clever on Gillis/Gilman's part and I think we'll see it more and more often over time.

The thing is you retain salary on Higgins and you have a lot more teams interested in him. He can put his 10 team list to teams that don't need third liners and then what? You either have to buy him out or keep him.

 

[thepuckmonster]

You actually have to commit to someone long term to have have "long term competent management". All GM's are going to make mistakes at some point or another, you're not supposed to fire them if they have one bad year like you would a coach.

True enough. I think Gillis had 6 years as the longest tenure and that's what the average length of a tenure on a GM should be, not the upper end of duration.