Sportsnet: Canucks arent interested in paying JT Miller more than 8mil per season. Trade is Looking more likely than extension this summer

[BLNY]

It's a tough line to take but likely the correct one given Miller's age.

You can ask for 8M if you're looking at 3 years.

A career year when you're trying to land the most important contract of your professional career?

I think you have to be a bit dubious.

Totally. He's still got another year on his current contract. He'll be 30 when the next contract starts. In his defense, he's been a ppg player since joining the Canucks, but he appears to be looking for the contract you get when you're coming out of your ELC.

They should get a boatload for him if he goes on the trade market. Canucks management will have to decide if the future value aligns better with Petterson's prime than a contract to Miller that would link him to the club until he's 38 and likely see as much as half of that term as a declining asset.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

That's a myth. They're not desired.

I dont understand. Why are LTIR contracts desired?

I don't actually think they give any advantage and I don't think they are desired at all.

Please explain.

So there's basically two situations when a LTIR contract is "desired"

- A rebuilding team doesn't want to worry about hitting the cap floor by playing an expensive vet and wants to do it by using a guy on LTIR. This happened recently when Buffalo acquired Johnny Boychuk for future considerations in order to trade Eichel. Shea Weber was rumored to be on the block probably for a similar situation team (Arizona).

- A rich team spending near the cap has some players that are overpaid for their production and wants to get rid of them (and don't mind paying their salary) for more efficient cap spend. Basically how Vegas wanted to turn Dadanov into Kesler. Leafs turned Clarkson into Horton, and whatever was going on with Lupul/Robidas are examples.

So maybe I overstated my point and LTIR contracts are negative assets by and large, however they are less negative than other negative assets so they can be moved or dealt with with minimal pain if your owner can handle it. LTIR significantly de-risks signing a guy long term, now the worst case scenario is they are healthy, very proud (unwilling to even consider retirement dealing with whatever chronic injuries playing NHL hockey for 10+ years gives you), and ineffective.

 

[jmelm]

Nylander + Kerfoot for Miller + Dickinson, in the summer.

Who adds?

No one, because that trade is never going to happen.

If the Leafs move Nylander (which I think is inevitable) it will be for a Dman.

And if I'm VCR and trading Miller, I'm looking for C and D, and I'm looking for younger than Nyalnder -- to be in a similar age range to EP40/Hughes/Podkolzin etc.

 

[bossram]

Still under contract for one more year no? id trade him next TDL if your still a fringe team/not in the POs

The Canucks are the definition of a fringe, not in the playoffs team.

Miller is a great player, but he absolutely must be traded.

 

[Martin Skoula]

2 playoff runs is more valuable to how many teams? like 2-3 playoff teams willing to trade for him at TDL?

Value is always based on supply and demand.

Whatever value you think he would have added because he would have given 2 playoff runs will get matched or surpassed by the value he will get because there will be a bigger bidding war of teams interested in the off-season plus the opportunity to negotiate a long term contract with him before trading for him, given that the Canucks allow it, and why wouldnt they.

You could have gotten the Hagel package with better prospects for him at the deadline. That dream is now over as he is a rental with no term for anyone who is realistically going to trade for him.

 

[nergish]

My priority rankings for JT Miller:

1. Short term contract (3-4 years) at his desired dollar amount ($8+)
2. Trade for a haul of picks (1st) and prospects (A-level)
3. Longterm contract (5-7 years) at a lower AAV ($6.5-7)
4. Longterm contract (5-7 years) at his desired dollar amount ($8+)

 

[Arthur Morgan]

This basically How to devalue your players 101?

 

[Boud]

This basically How to devalue your players 101?

Devalue? The market sets the price he's on pace for 90 points. There will be biding wars over him. They will get more than fair value.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Devalue? The market sets the price he's on pace for 90 points. There will be biding wars over him. They will get more than fair value.

I just imagine talks can get more when your on the side of we're more than welcome to keep him over something like 8+m is too much for us so we're going to trade him.
Good thing he's on a sweet contract for another year. more teams can fit him in so Id hope for your guys sake its a freaking haul because I wouldnt be happy to let go of Miller
feel like he deserves to get that contract in VAN where he broke out.
I can see a solid 3-4 year window where he stays elite still

 

[AvsCOL]

Strange that they didn’t trade him at the deadline then… Value drops quite a bit now since you’re only get one year then UFA.

They could’ve gotten a huge haul.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

This is a good thing. The Canucks should not be re-signing him.

Allvin really should have moved him at the TDL.

I don't know, options were limited at the TDL. If they were blown away with an offer he would've been on a plane.

With how good/important he is you have to explore an extension. They are right to take this hard-line, and perhaps it ends up he won't sign, but you don't know unless you get into it.

In the summer more teams will have flexibility to join the bidding if they want him, and it allows teams a chance to talk extension ala the Seth Jones situation.

Getting the extension done for Jones likely yielded CBJ more in return than he would've gotten at the deadline IMO. Could be the same here.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Strange that they didn’t trade him at the deadline then… Value drops quite a bit now since you’re only get one year then UFA.

They could’ve gotten a huge haul.

If they could've they would've. Colorado didn't seem to be giving up Newhook or Byram. Who knows what the sticking point was in NYR. Beyond that not sure how many other teams were in a position to pay the premium we would've needed.

If a team that trades for him can also get an extension done, then he'll have just as much value (if not more)

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

You could have gotten the Hagel package with better prospects for him at the deadline. That dream is now over as he is a rental with no term for anyone who is realistically going to trade for him.

From which team? Where was this reported? If the deal was that good they would've moved him.

 

[Martin Skoula]

From which team? Where was this reported? If the deal was that good they would've moved him.

You don't think two years of Miller at under 3 mil would get a Hagel+ package from a contender?

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

You don't think two years of Miller at under 3 mil would get a Hagel+ package from a contender?

When Sakic called & the Canucks (likely) demanded Byram or Newhook I think he balked. What were the Rangers giving up? Not Lafrienere, maybe not even Schneider or Kakko. Those were the 2 obvious places. Then who else was there? Toronto was reported to have called but what's their package look like? Not as good imo.

If there was a deal that involved multiple firsts, and better prospects (or atleast 1 that's NHL ready in it, ala Schneider - that's the biggest need in the deal for VAN) I think they would've taken it.

Its hard to say without knowing, but I don't think they wouldn't have moved him if a massive haul was offered.

 

[Grub]

Should have traded him in the deadline.

 

[common12]

He won't get moved at the draft and will get hurt and miss the season. Wont be traded at all and will leave via free agency. Nucks get zero

 

[bernmeister]

It seems that the Canucks have a hard firm price on what they are willing to pay Miller for an extension this summer. It sounds like its way under market value and a figure that Miller would have to be giving a major major hometeam discount for to sign. I wouldnt blame Miller if he doesnt sign for a discount, he has earned this pay day and it will probably be his last big one for his career. The only way i see Miller being a Canuck past next season if he absolutely LOVES living in Vancouver. I also dont blame the Canucks for not wanting to break the bank for a then 30 yr old Power Forward.


Sportsnet Sat Shah:

He's from near there and grew up a Pens fan.
Pitt is getting old; JT is a nice fallback as Malkin exits.

So the ? is, how high will PIT go and is it worth it for VAN to slightly exceed to = best offer?

The value of that has toi be weighed vs short term benefits of a trade, but that is a 1x shot in the arm, compared to term into mid 30s, and you hope for production into early 30s.

Not easy equation to compute.

 

[Gstank]

Pitts would have to offer their 2023 1st, 2022 1st, Marino and probably another piece to get Miller. I don't see them paying that type of price

 

[Grub]

Pitts would have to offer their 2023 1st, 2022 1st, Marino and probably another piece to get Miller. I don't see them paying that type of price

It depends, maybe they want to give Malkin and Crosby a last dance.

 

[RebuildinVan]

He won't get moved at the draft and will get hurt and miss the season. Wont be traded at all and will leave via free agency. Nucks get zero

Benning is gone so the outcome should be better than this

 

[Oddbob]

No offence to Miller as he has had a great season. But he is 29 already, with another season under deal he will be 30 by the time he gets his new deal. 6-8 years at high cap hit puts you into not going to age well category for players that play a more physical style.

 

[Oddbob]

If Hyman got we he did, Miller will get what he wants

The contracts aren't close though. 5.5 is a far way off 8 or more.

 

[Oddbob]

So again, what's the negotiating difference here?
Are you going to be the super smart GM who pays top dollar for a contract year performance?

Miller has a 7% scoring lead between the two players over the past 4 seasons.
3% lead over their careers.
$8.137m + 7% = $8.706m?
Miller played less minutes in Tampa but lots of minutes in Vancouver.
I contend that Miller also plays with better players (especially on the powerplay)

This isn't a contract year for Miller though. Next year is. He still has one year left at 5.25 or so.

 

[Martin Skoula]

When Sakic called & the Canucks (likely) demanded Byram or Newhook I think he balked. What were the Rangers giving up? Not Lafrienere, maybe not even Schneider or Kakko. Those were the 2 obvious places. Then who else was there? Toronto was reported to have called but what's their package look like? Not as good imo.

If there was a deal that involved multiple firsts, and better prospects (or atleast 1 that's NHL ready in it, ala Schneider - that's the biggest need in the deal for VAN) I think they would've taken it.

Its hard to say without knowing, but I don't think they wouldn't have moved him if a massive haul was offered.

Yeah I'm not saying it would have been top prospects like Schneider but 2 1sts + 2 recent 1st/2nd round prospects seems reasonable.