"Can't hit Gretzky"

[Bupi]

Ok, guys, I'm Finnish and in Finland majority of hockey people seem to believe that during Wayne Gretzky's career other players weren't allowed to hit him.

Based on many interviews I've seen, many former players keep on saying that "you couldn't hit Gretzky". Then they go on that Gretzky wasn't in position to be hit or he had already passed the puck long time ago when he could have been hit, etc. And here's my problem: "can't hit Gretzky" can be tranlated into Finnish in two ways; either "you're not allowed to hit Gretzky" or "it's hard to hit Gretzky". Feels to me that since it's more popular to hate the player than respect his game (among Finns, I mean), many of us think it's "not allowed to hit".

And there are also stories to back this opinion: I remember hearing, that during one of his first pre-season games in Winnipeg, Teemu Selänne did hit Gretzky. A few moments later Marty McSorley skated next to Teemu and told him something like "people don't hit that guy", etc.

My question to you who did understand hockey in the 80s: How was it? Were other players allowed to hit Wayne Gretzky?

Click to read more...

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Both.

Guys like Semenko or McSorley made you answer the bell if you hit Gretzky. Of course, that was IF you could hit Gretzky.

 

[Derick*]

Which was true is going to be controversial. Regardless of what one thinks happened, though, the players and journalists you're referencing definitely mean "hard to hit" and those translating it as "not allowed to hit" are being disingenuous.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Ok, guys, I'm Finnish and in Finland majority of hockey people seem to believe that during Wayne Gretzky's career other players weren't allowed to hit him.

Based on many interviews I've seen, many former players keep on saying that "you couldn't hit Gretzky". Then they go on that Gretzky wasn't in position to be hit or he had already passed the puck long time ago when he could have been hit, etc. And here's my problem: "can't hit Gretzky" can be tranlated into Finnish in two ways; either "you're not allowed to hit Gretzky" or "it's hard to hit Gretzky". Feels to me that since it's more popular to hate the player than respect his game (among Finns, I mean), many of us think it's "not allowed to hit".

And there are also stories to back this opinion: I remember hearing, that during one of his first pre-season games in Winnipeg, Teemu Selänne did hit Gretzky. A few moments later Marty McSorley skated next to Teemu and told him something like "people don't hit that guy", etc.

My question to you who did understand hockey in the 80s: How was it? Were other players allowed to hit Wayne Gretzky?

At that level, Gretzky was protected. No conspiracy other than the usual, though ramped up, intimidation to protect a star player.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Ok, guys, I'm Finnish and in Finland majority of hockey people seem to believe that during Wayne Gretzky's career other players weren't allowed to hit him.

Based on many interviews I've seen, many former players keep on saying that "you couldn't hit Gretzky". Then they go on that Gretzky wasn't in position to be hit or he had already passed the puck long time ago when he could have been hit, etc. And here's my problem: "can't hit Gretzky" can be tranlated into Finnish in two ways; either "you're not allowed to hit Gretzky" or "it's hard to hit Gretzky". Feels to me that since it's more popular to hate the player than respect his game (among Finns, I mean), many of us think it's "not allowed to hit".

And there are also stories to back this opinion: I remember hearing, that during one of his first pre-season games in Winnipeg, Teemu Selänne did hit Gretzky. A few moments later Marty McSorley skated next to Teemu and told him something like "people don't hit that guy", etc.

My question to you who did understand hockey in the 80s: How was it? Were other players allowed to hit Wayne Gretzky?

You were definitely allowed to hit him, provided you were prepared to deal with Semenko and most likely the whole Oiler bench coming to rip your head off right after

The interviews you speak of are players talking about how hard it was to actually hit him.
Denis Potvin, who was a mean SoB and until Stevens came along, was widely regarded as one of the hardest hitters in the league, still talks about how utterly frustrated he got trying to nail Gretzky.

I watched as much of Gretzky as I could back then and I saw him take a couple of partial hits now and then, never really catching much of him.
Except for once when a guy named McCreary, who had like a dozen games played, absolutely destroyed Gretz along the blueline.
As the story goes, McCreary never played another shift in the NHL after.

Without a doubt in my mind, Gretzky was easily the most aware, most deceptive and most elusive player I ever saw.

 

[Briere Up There*]

Except for once when a guy named McCreary, who had like a dozen games played, absolutely destroyed Gretz along the blueline.
As the story goes, McCreary never played another shift in the NHL after.

Incorrect. McCreary had a brief NHL career because he was a marginal pro, not because he hit Gretzky. He definitely played another game in the NHL after that hit.

I mean what do you think his own coach benched him after it? He played the rest of that game too.

 

[jkrx]

You were definitely allowed to hit him, provided you were prepared to deal with Semenko and most likely the whole Oiler bench coming to rip your head off right after

The interviews you speak of are players talking about how hard it was to actually hit him.
Denis Potvin, who was a mean SoB and until Stevens came along, was widely regarded as one of the hardest hitters in the league, still talks about how utterly frustrated he got trying to nail Gretzky.

I watched as much of Gretzky as I could back then and I saw him take a couple of partial hits now and then, never really catching much of him.
Except for once when a guy named McCreary, who had like a dozen games played, absolutely destroyed Gretz along the blueline.
As the story goes, McCreary never played another shift in the NHL after.

Without a doubt in my mind, Gretzky was easily the most aware, most deceptive and most elusive player I ever saw.

Which further fuels the "not allowed to hit Gretzky"-theories. I however believe there is a half truth to the stories. It's pretty obvious that a league would try to protect someone like Gretzky. Money comes first, at all times.

Incorrect. McCreary had a brief NHL career because he was a marginal pro, not because he hit Gretzky. He definitely played another game in the NHL after that hit.

No he didn't.

 

[reckoning]

McCreary played 12 games. The Gretzky hit was in his 3rd game.


Edit: I was wrong, apparently it was only his 2nd game. Still, the point remains the same. McCreary wasn't blacklisted.

 

[Stray Wasp]

To those who insist that Bill McCreary was conspired against, here's a carefully researched piece on the famous hit.

http://scottsportsworld.blogspot.com/2010/04/short-career-of-bill-mccreary-jr.html

Granted, that's one source. The ravings of a mad man perhaps. Unlike the "McCreary was blacklisted" school, which boasts such thoughtful advocates as Don Cherry.

What about other sources?

According to Hockey Draft Central, McCreary played 12 NHL games and scored one solitary point-a goal. McCreary accrued 4 PIMS. HDC says his debut was 30th December 1980 and the Gretzky hit occurred 14th January 81, after which they claim McCreary never played another NHL game. The profile is below.

http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1979/79114.html

Trouble is, those stats don't tot up. As the other link points out, the game on the 14th was played in Toronto and Gretzky was playing in his home Oiler uniform when the hit occurred (maybe another sinister pro-Gretzky conspiracy there). Even if we bring ourselves to accept the hit happened that day, the Leafs only played eight games between December 30th and January 14th. (My source for the Leafs schedule is hockey-reference.com; who knows, they may be changing stats to protect The Great One too...)

The Leafs played Edmonton four times in 80/81. The game on January 14th was their last meeting. According to the Hockey Summary Project someone called McCreary picked up a two minute penalty for Toronto when they played in Vancouver on 20th January.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that history is being re-written in a Nineteen Eighty-Four style. Perhaps everyone involved with HSP can be dragged before a HOH star-chamber to confirm they aren't in thrall to number 99. I can get ahold of a blow torch if we need to get medieval on someone's arse...

 

[BraveCanadian]

Gretzky was very difficult to hit because he had grown up playing against much bigger and stronger players and had to be. He rolled away from hits and positioned himself such that even if he was hit he didn't take the brunt of it.

Secondly if you did manage to cork him a good one.. yes.. the other players on the team would inform you that they frowned upon it.

Its a bit of both.

 

[Analyzer*]

There wasn't an instigating rule back then, so Semenko, McSorley and if need be, guys like Lowe and Messier would go after you.

iirc Gretzky has 2 career fights and I believe one of them was against Neal Broten. Nothing happened to him.

 

[Trottier]

Both.

Guys like Semenko or McSorley made you answer the bell if you hit Gretzky. Of course, that was IF you could hit Gretzky.

This is the answer.

Of course, there were exceptions to the rule. There is the McCreary hit, Bryan Trottier nailed #99 bigtime in the '83 Finals, etc. But it is not folklore that the Oilers protected #99 to the extreme (and to their credit). And likewise, he was hard to hit, to begin with (to his credit).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Sure, Gretzky was protected. But he was far from the only superstar forwards who was protecting by goon teammates in that era of hockey.

Bobby Clarke was notorious for starting crap and then as soon as the other team laid a hand on him, his goon teammates would come pouring over the bench to defend him.

 

[Dissonance]

Dave Semenko was a tough player but the way this story gets told, people act as if he was far and away the most fearsome enforcer in the history of the NHL—like he would murder your family if you so much as looked at #99.

Semenko wasn't any scarier than a guy like Bob Probert in Detroit, and yet people still knocked down Steve Yzerman. Players like Denis Potvin or, say, Joel Otto were not going to avoid hitting Gretzky just because they might have to answer to Semenko and McSorely. They didn't hit Gretzky because it was nearly impossible to catch him. And this was true long after Semenko had retired.

 

[Big Phil]

Sure, Gretzky was protected. But he was far from the only superstar forwards who was protecting by goon teammates in that era of hockey.

Bobby Clarke was notorious for starting crap and then as soon as the other team laid a hand on him, his goon teammates would come pouring over the bench to defend him.

And there lies the truth that the Gretzky haters don't like to bring up. All star players had someone look out for them. Yzerman had Probert. Let's find a time someone threw a cheap shot at Yzerman? Didn't happen. Bossy had Gillies. People didn't even try to take liberties with Bossy. Clarke had the Broad Street Bullies, although he would have deserved each and every punch thrown at him since he was a cheap shot artist. Lindros and Lemieux didn't really have goons look out for them. For starters Lindros was one of the best fighters in NHL history. Lemieux wasn't, but he was a big boy and could handle himself a bit better. Plus he was a bigger target because he was.........bigger.

Another thing, I have a hard time believing Potvin, Trottier, Gillies, Nystrom and co. were afraid of anybody. If they could line up #99 they would but seldom did because they couldn't. To suggest there was a league wide agreement to let Gretzky do his thing basically calls these fierce competitors pushovers. I won't do that.

Besides, it was a long time ago that Gretzky realized he wasn't a big player. He watched Clarke park himself behind the net with the protection of.........the net in front of him. The most important thing too, he kept his head up all the time. Gretzky was the smartest player to ever play the game. He saw the ice better than anyone. He would see someone coming. And yeah for the most part guys didn't take cheap shots at him but it was out of respect which is something lacking 20-30 years later. You didn't see Lafleur rammed from behind either.

Lastly Gretzky was a clean player. A Lady Byng winner. He didn't do what Clarke did any use his stick as a weapon. He didn't elbow anyone. He fought twice. His style made it so he didn't have to stand in front of the net often. He wasn't physical either. This meant he wasn't a target for things like retaliation.

Watch Crosby play today. He has his head up. You can count the amount of times on one hand that the Kid has been checked in the open ice. Trust me, nobody is trying to "avoid" Crosby. He's just a smart player. The difference between him and Gretzky is that he's more physically involved. He scraps, he pushes, he shoves and he's stronger than #99. His style dictates him to be more involved physically. This is why he gets targeted more.

 

[sr edler]

 

[lextune]

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=528494

 

[Rhiessan71]

Sure, Gretzky was protected. But he was far from the only superstar forwards who was protecting by goon teammates in that era of hockey.

Bobby Clarke was notorious for starting crap and then as soon as the other team laid a hand on him, his goon teammates would come pouring over the bench to defend him.

Agreed but you have to also understand that the younger folk asking about this obviously weren't around or were too young to actually understand how brutal the game was back then in the 80's and especially the 70's.
Unlike today, if you took a run at a star player back then, a guy like Semenko would make you answer the bell whether you wanted to or not and in the case of Gretzky, you would be lucky if both benches didn't clear.
There was no talking or shoving going on, Semenko would have his gloves off on the other side of the ice and you better be prepared to defend yourself because he was coming in swinging.

 

[The Sting]

And there lies the truth that the Gretzky haters don't like to bring up. All star players had someone look out for them. Yzerman had Probert. Let's find a time someone threw a cheap shot at Yzerman? Didn't happen. Bossy had Gillies. People didn't even try to take liberties with Bossy. Clarke had the Broad Street Bullies, although he would have deserved each and every punch thrown at him since he was a cheap shot artist. Lindros and Lemieux didn't really have goons look out for them. For starters Lindros was one of the best fighters in NHL history. Lemieux wasn't, but he was a big boy and could handle himself a bit better. Plus he was a bigger target because he was.........bigger.

Are you serious?

 

[Epsilon]

The "McCreary never played another game/shift!" myth is one of those pieces of fiction that just will not die no matter how many times it gets refuted.

 

[Saku11]

How would that be possible?. referee tells to all players including rookies"leave Wayne alone, dont touch him ".this is just really stupid. He got hit, but he kept his head up, so anything serious didnt happen to him.

 

[Trottier]

And there lies the truth....

Great post, start to finish.

Are you serious?

Your point is taken. Early on, his first couple of years in the league, players tested Bossy. From memory alone, Denis Polonich of the Wings jumped him on the opening faceoff of a game at the old Olympic Arena. More infamous was Dave "Tiger" Williams running him ceaselessly in the Leafs Quarterfinal upset the spring of '78.

And, the Isles gained a reputation at that time as a team that was soft, one that could be beat if you got physical. And rightly so.


However, to Big Phil's comment, that changed the spring of 1980...and not entirely coincidentally, so did their postseason fortunes. Circa 1982, Ed Hospadar took a cheapshot at Bossy one game. Clarke Gillies never forgot. He broke Hospadar's jaw the following preseason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAYwsUzVS0I

 

[Mayor Bee]

It never gets old.

Of course, that's because I used to own the jersey McCreary is wearing in this clip. It's since moved on, but it was a beauty.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Agreed but you have to also understand that the younger folk asking about this obviously weren't around or were too young to actually understand how brutal the game was back then in the 80's and especially the 70's.
Unlike today, if you took a run at a star player back then, a guy like Semenko would make you answer the bell whether you wanted to or not and in the case of Gretzky, you would be lucky if both benches didn't clear.
There was no talking or shoving going on, Semenko would have his gloves off on the other side of the ice and you better be prepared to defend yourself because he was coming in swinging.

It's funny. Today it always seems like whenever a player makes a big open-ice hit on an opposing player, he ends up having to fight someone on the opposing player's team...even if the hit is clean.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

It's funny. Today it always seems like whenever a player makes a big open-ice hit on an opposing player, he ends up having to fight someone on the opposing player's team...even if the hit is clean.

Good point.