News Article: Canadiens wrapped up in legal tax evasion leak - Paradise Papers

[Tyson]

People who hold this argument just don't get it. The reason why taxation on the small guys is high is because taxation on the money making industry is failing. At the root of it if a government can not levy on the highest economical activities, it just falls into corruption, exploitation and various other predatory practices on its population.

The fact that other shady corporations do it does not excuse the Montreal Canadiens or even justifies their actions. As a hole all this is making them look like is a bunch of ****ing hypocrites. Think this through carefully, next time dip**** Molson shows up to kiss babies at his next community event.

I know, I know...rich people are so evil. Thank god for the rich as they take the risks, create jobs. Has a poor man ever written you a check? Hell, let’s become Venezuela, they seem to be thriving in a socialist euphoria

 

[OnTheRun]

Pirates have other goals when they pirate too. Doesn't make it right.

Taxes evasion is technically speaking not legal.

You'll never find yourself where what you do is "65% legal". Law is binary, 1 or 0, legal or illegal.

As long there's no law preventing you from doing something, then it's legal. Regardless if what you're doing can be considered "wrong" from a moral/logical/ethical standpoint.
Obviously laws can change and loopholes can be patched but until that happen you're still on the right side of the law.

 

[Tyson]

Yeah I am done Sharing my views on this. If laws are not broken...end of story

 

[habtastic]

Leafs falling back to earth. Good timing. Vintage Trump move, Star/CBC!

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Spoken from someone who probably pays little to nothing. Easy to ask a different class who took risks and reached a certain level to pay even more.

Geoff Molson, the self-made man, born in the slums of Hochelaga, who dropped out of school at 15 to support his siblings after the death of their gas-pumping father, and who rose from the ashes of misery to become the proprietor of the sacred Montreal Canadiens.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I know, I know...rich people are so evil. Thank god for the rich as they take the risks, create jobs. Has a poor man ever written you a check? Hell, let’s become Venezuela, they seem to be thriving in a socialist euphoria

Let me guess, temporarily embarrassed millionaire?

 

[calder candidate]

I'm not going to say it a great thing but I rather hold the Government accountable for creating loophole or rule with loopholes that let companies and people with lot of money in general to play with the system. Because let face it 15min. after a laws past you tons of people have found ways to work around it (ot they might of had a hand in writing the law in the first place) and most of these loophole are known for a while if they haven't fix them yet it because most people don't how much we are getting screwed and there isn't enough pressure to shut them down while and incentive to keep them...

 

[Hoople]

There are many problems for sure in any system. I just don't like the track we are on... Too many people struggling today because greedy companies want record profits.

What gets lost in these discussions is the human factor. People point to government as an entity and corporations as an entity.

While both are entities, they are both managed by people. And as such, are subject to corruption.

Corporations are the easy targets. They produce goods and services and are in existence for one reason. To make a profit for shareholders.

With that said, corporations have to follow the rules of the taxing entities of governments. They have rules (IRS in the US) to abide by. They have to have balance sheets and are subject to audits. Corruption tends to be discovered (see Enron) and directors tend to be punished.

On the other side of the spectrum, there is government. The government does not have a balance sheet. There are no checks and balances. No way to trace expenditures. No audits. And yes, there is corruption. With very little accountability.

Corporations and companies use every legal means to keep the government from taking more of their money. If it's legal, I don't blame anyone using means to keep the greedy hands of unaccountable government away from more money.

 

[Runner77]

Geoff Molson, that self-made man, born in the slums of Hochelaga, who dropped out of school at 15 to support his siblings after the death of their gas-pumping father, who took risks and rose himself from the ashes of misery to become the proprietor of the sacred Montreal Canadiens.

A story that makes us cry in our beer.

 

[Runner77]

You'll never find yourself where what you do is "65% legal". Law is binary, 1 or 0, legal or illegal.

As long there's no law preventing you from doing something, then it's legal. Regardless if what you're doing can be considered "wrong" from a moral/logical/ethical standpoint.
Obviously laws can change and loopholes can be patched but until that happen you're still on the right side of the law.

If all laws were binary, you wouldn't have any litigation. Words don't translate boundaries as accurately as numbers do. There are always words that open the door to varying interpretations and help create grey areas, that could lead to absolving a litigant of wrongdoing. There is a reason those with means, will challenge certain laws and how they are applied or interpreted by those who are entrusted to enforce them -- it's not so cut and dried, sadly. I'd much prefer the binary model you suggest, if it could ever be had -- everyone would then know where they stand at all times. It's unfortunately utopic.

 

[vokiel]

I know, I know...rich people are so evil. Thank god for the rich as they take the risks, create jobs. Has a poor man ever written you a check? Hell, let’s become Venezuela, they seem to be thriving in a socialist euphoria

I'm not even arguing against the rich... But I guess you skipped that part.

 

[dinodebino]

If I read correctly, Club de hockey Canadiens inc. closed its offshore operations in 2010, one year after Geoff acquired the team.

 

[LaP]

You'll never find yourself where what you do is "65% legal". Law is binary, 1 or 0, legal or illegal.

As long there's no law preventing you from doing something, then it's legal. Regardless if what you're doing can be considered "wrong" from a moral/logical/ethical standpoint.
Obviously laws can change and loopholes can be patched but until that happen you're still on the right side of the law.

Taxes avoidance is not always legal either even if the loophole appears to be.

http://business.financialpost.com/l...le-against-li-familys-copthorne-holdings-unit

Legally speaking if you conduct a shady business transaction in the sole purpose of avoidance taxes it's not legal.

 

[Runner77]

If I read correctly, Club de hockey Canadiens inc. closed its offshore operations in 2010, one year after Geoff acquired the team.

Are you thinking that the offshore operations were initiated under George Gillett and that Geoff et als. inherited them as part and parcel of acquiring the team's shares?

 

[dinodebino]

Are you thinking that the offshore operations were initiated under George Gillett and that Geoff et als. inherited them as part and parcel of acquiring the team's shares?

No, from the report, they were initiated (at least one of them) in the 80's. And I do think they got transferred over time with ownership of the company. The actual owners got rid of them early in their tenure, according to the reports.

 

[haseoke39]

You don't pay more taxes than you owe. You don't owe taxes on money you don't keep here. If we find those rules offensive, shame on us for making them.

This is a democracy. Let's fix the rules and then watch the Geoff Molsons of the world follow them.

 

[dinodebino]

It looks like the Canadiens are wrapped up in the "Paradise Papers" leaks.

This refers to roughly 3,300 Canadian companies, trusts, foundations and individuals whose names appear in a leak of millions of records from an offshore law firm and the corporate registries of 19 tax havens.

Basically, the Canadiens have been caught creating an offshore trust or corporation in countries where they pay little or no taxes, as a way to legally avoid — or potentially evade — paying taxes in Canada.

While this is legal, given Canada's lax corporate tax laws, it's dirty. I've been a Canadiens fan since I was a kid in the mid-70's. This is shameful. This team used to represent something, and it wasn't legal tax evasion.

Good work by the CBC and the Toronto Star (as well as an international consortium of journalists) for uncovering this. Molson needs to address this.

In that case, you need to realize that they did it starting in the early 80's, and have alledgedly stopped in 2010.

 

[Runner77]

No, from the report, they were initiated (at least one of them) in the 80's. And I do think they got transferred over time with ownership of the company. The actual owners got rid of them early in their tenure, according to the reports.

OK, so the fact that they got rid of them early, is actually a good sign. There has been a domino effect of offshore institutions opening their books and divulging their client identities ever since the US govt started putting pressure on Belgian banks. In Canada, they've paved the way for tax evaders to come forward and avoid criminal and other charges via voluntary disclosures. The exculpatory benefits won't apply if the Canadian Revenue Agency is already investigating a particular tax payer.

 

[OnTheRun]

Taxes avoidance is not always legal either even if the loophole appears to be.

http://business.financialpost.com/l...le-against-li-familys-copthorne-holdings-unit

Legally speaking if you conduct a shady business transaction in the sole purpose of avoidance taxes it's not legal.

Yes and it's explained here what exactly is illegal as per the law.

 

[Habsawce]

You can. Will you sleep at night knowing you legally "steal" money of normal people working hard for it is another story though.

I pay over 30k a year in taxes, I think I could sleep ok for a couple years paying less than that.

 

[MisterNoItAll]

See... I totally agree with this line of thinking, since the Canadiens are mostly a source of discretionary expenses.

But mostly all everyday necessities are made by some kind of entity that benefitted of a kind of fiscal evasion. And if you can enjoy life with absolutely NO everyday necessities made by entities that benefitted of a kind of fiscal evasion, well, you're probably too rich to give any lesson to anyone, OR, living with your parents.

I do the best I can. Can you be perfect all the time? No. But it doesn't mean you can't try. And trying is better than not trying.

As time goes on, more and more corruption is getting exposed, in all industries.

Especially, if it's not a necessity.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I know, I know...rich people are so evil. Thank god for the rich as they take the risks, create jobs. Has a poor man ever written you a check? Hell, let’s become Venezuela, they seem to be thriving in a socialist euphoria

Lmao. This is gold, jerry, GOLD.

 

[DAChampion]

Molson buying the Habs for 600 million dollars ranks as one of the best investments I've heard of recently.