Can we talk about Crosby for a minute?

[TheSniper26]

Well, didn't someone just few posts before use that to justify that Neal was a better winger than Kunitz?

What? I saw someone post the actual numbers that support Neal being the better winger. I mean the season you keep bringing up is direct proof that Neal is better. Both on the same line, in the exact same situation, and he outproduced Kunitz.

 

[Boocock]

I'm sorry, but it's not really debatable. Crosby's 10-11 season blew everything else away. He dominated every single night and was playing the most complete hockey anyone in this era has. No one else has showed that dominance in both goal scoring and playmaking.

You want to talk about linemates so much, in Geno's 11-12 season he had Kunitz and Neal. Sid had Kunitz and Dupuis.

I'm sorry you don't think Sid's goals were as "pretty" as Geno's, but that means nothing in terms of domination.

I actually think Geno's clutch factor during the 2011-12 season should be recognized. We were a one-line team at the time and he downright refused to let us lose games.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Well, didn't someone just few posts before use that to justify that Neal was a better winger than Kunitz?

In the case of Kunitz and Neal there is quite a obvious difference when you watch them play. Neal is plainly better. There is not a clear difference when watching Sid and Geno play. Both dominate.

 

[Shrimper]

Just need Bennett to swap with Spaling and all is good.

 

[yuri28]

I'm sorry, but it's not really debatable. Crosby's 10-11 season blew everything else away. He dominated every single night and was playing the most complete hockey anyone in this era has. No one else has showed that dominance in both goal scoring and playmaking.

You want to talk about linemates so much, in Geno's 11-12 season he had Kunitz and Neal. Sid had Kunitz and Dupuis.

I'm sorry you don't think Sid's goals were as "pretty" as Geno's, but that means nothing in terms of domination.

+Geno on PP
Geno didn't have Sid and Letang for most of the 2011-2012 season, in case you forget.
And please, i love Sid but don't blow that half season of him out of proportions.
He was great but he was not dominant to the point he could dangle around everyone or consistently score highlights goals.
That was not the sort of dominance you could see with Mario, Jagr or even, yes even Geno during some of his big runs.
It's not only about points, i'm talking mostly about the dominance in term of puck possession and ability to skate through the opposite defenders like they were nothing.
Sid is a fantastic passer and has a wonderful eye-coordination speed and vision but there are players who when they are at their best looks/are more dominant and harder to stop, that's all.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

+Geno on PP
Geno didn't have Sid and Letang for most of the 2011-2012 season.
And please, i love Sid but don't blow that half season of him out of proportions.
He was great but he was not dominant to the point he could dangle around everyone or consistently scored highlights goals.
That was not the sort of dominance you could see with Mario, Jagr or even, yes even Geno during some of his big runs.

In the first half of 2010-11 Sid was a danger to score on every single shift and was playing his best 200 ft game as well. It wasn't Mario/Gretzky level domination but it is as close to that as I have seen in awhile. Also yes, Geno and Ovie have had similarly dominant stretches. Think Sid's was better due to his all-around game.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I actually think Geno's clutch factor during the 2011-12 season should be recognized. We were a one-line team at the time and he downright refused to let us lose games.

Yeah and Crosby single-handedly led the team to 15 and 7 game win streaks the last two years while Geno has been out and the rest of the roster was filled with scrubs.

In 10-11, Geno had his only sub-PPG season of his career. Staal was out for the first half of the year. Sid's line carried us when he was still healthy, too. During the 12 game win streak in 10-11, Geno played 8 of those games and put up 5 points. Sid put up 23.

In those 41 games, he only went pointless 6 times.

Crosby has willed this team to wins plenty of times.

 

[yuri28]

In the first half of 2010-11 Sid was a danger to score on every single shift and was playing his best 200 ft game as well. It wasn't Mario/Gretzky level domination but it is as close to that as I have seen in awhile. Also yes, Geno and Ovie have had similarly dominant stretches. Think Sid's was better due to his all-around game.

On that, i completely agree with you.
I just believe though that Geno looked more dominant offensively during the 2011-2012 season.
That's where we'll disagree i guess.

 

[TheSniper26]

+Geno on PP
Geno didn't have Sid and Letang for most of the 2011-2012 season, in case you forget.
And please, i love Sid but don't blow that half season of him out of proportions.
He was great but he was not dominant to the point he could dangle around everyone or consistently scored highlights goals.
That was not the sort of dominance you could see with Mario, Jagr or even, yes even Geno during some of his big runs.
It's not only about points, i'm talking mostly about the dominance in term of puck possession and ability to skate through the opposite defenders like they were nothing.
Sid is a fantastic passer and has a wonderful eye-coordination speed and vision but there are players who when they are at their best looks/are more dominant and harder to stop, that's all.

To me this post really sums up one side of the debate a bit. Geno's game is more aesthetically pleasing. He does things that look nice. He'll "dangle" and circle the offensive zone a couple times and it's all very fun to watch. But if it doesn't translate to increased production, what's it worth? I guess I just don't see the value of style points.

 

[yuri28]

Anyway, Sid and Geno are really the least of our problems right now.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

On that, i completely agree with you.
I just believe though that Geno looked more dominant offensively during the 2011-2012 season.
That's where we'll disagree i guess.

Geno looked more dangerous offensively with the puck on his stick for sure. Crosby on the other hand could not be left alone anywhere near the net. Watch his highlights from that year and count the deflection goals, it was ridiculous. He was not only dominant offensively that year but also incredibly dynamic.

 

[yuri28]

To me this post really sums up one side of the debate a bit. Geno's game is more aesthetically pleasing. He does things that look nice. He'll "dangle" and circle the offensive zone a couple times and it's all very fun to watch. But if it doesn't translate to increased production, what's it worth? I guess I just don't see the value of style points.

Yeah, i'd also compare it to the Great One / Mario comparaison.......a comparaison where i'll let you guess who is my favourite player.

 

[Waffle Fries]

+Geno on PP
Geno didn't have Sid and Letang for most of the 2011-2012 season, in case you forget.
And please, i love Sid but don't blow that half season of him out of proportions.
He was great but he was not dominant to the point he could dangle around everyone or consistently score highlights goals.
That was not the sort of dominance you could see with Mario, Jagr or even, yes even Geno during some of his big runs.
It's not only about points, i'm talking mostly about the dominance in term of puck possession and ability to skate through the opposite defenders like they were nothing.
Sid is a fantastic passer and has a wonderful eye-coordination speed and vision but there are players who when they are at their best looks/are more dominant and harder to stop, that's all.

Yes he was. It was as close to Mario-level dominance as you can get in this era.

You're mentioning the PP a lot. In 10-11, Sid had 19 PP points. (29% of his total points).

In 11-12, 34 of Geno's 109 points came on the PP. That's 31%.

Geno benefited more from the PP than Sid did in their most dominant seasons.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Anyway, Sid and Geno are really the least of our problems right now.

Absolutely. Neither deserves a thread questioning their effort but such is the reality of a fanbase that has been so spoiled with talent for the better part of 30 years.

 

[Boocock]

Geno looked more dangerous offensively with the puck on his stick for sure. Crosby on the other hand could not be left alone anywhere near the net. Watch his highlights from that year and count the deflection goals, it was ridiculous. He was not only dominant offensively that year but also incredibly dynamic.

That is what he is missing now. Taking a shot in the face from Orpik can't help matters either.

 

[yuri28]

Geno looked more dangerous offensively with the puck on his stick for sure. Crosby on the other hand could not be left alone anywhere near the net. Watch his highlights from that year and count the deflection goals, it was ridiculous. He was not only dominant offensively that year but also incredibly dynamic.

That's precisely why i found Geno's season more impressive offensively.
Not saying that deflections goals don't require skills, of course not but you have to admit that there is a much bigger part of luck in that than for example in the goal Geno scored against Tampa Bay or against Brodeur.
That's also why i think there is no way Sid would have maintained that "31 goals in 41 games" pace the whole season.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

That's precisely why i found Geno's season more impressive offensively.
Not saying that deflections goals don't require skills, of course not but you have to admit that there is a much bigger part of luck in that than for example in the goal Geno scored against Tampa Bay or against the Devils against Brodeur.
That's also why i think there is no way Sid would have maintained that "31 goals in 41 games" pace the whole season.

The deflection goals weren't luck at all. He was doing it far too consistently for it to be luck. It wasn't all easy deflections either. He scored several that looked impossible. I still have yet to see deflection goals as impressive as that since then. Had he not been concussed and finished the season it would have been a 60 goal, 125+ point campaign for sure. It's really a shame that he can't score on deflections like that anymore.

 

[IcedCapp]

To me this post really sums up one side of the debate a bit. Geno's game is more aesthetically pleasing. He does things that look nice. He'll "dangle" and circle the offensive zone a couple times and it's all very fun to watch. But if it doesn't translate to increased production, what's it worth? I guess I just don't see the value of style points.

Style points earn you rabid, loyal fans, apparently.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

That's precisely why i found Geno's season more impressive offensively.
Not saying that deflections goals don't require skills, of course not but you have to admit that there is a much bigger part of luck in that than for example in the goal Geno scored against Tampa Bay or against Brodeur.
That's also why i think there is no way Sid would have maintained that "31 goals in 41 games" pace the whole season.

Crosby scored in every way imaginable that season. He was absolutely automatic on breakaways.

That half season was more dominant than any player has been, both offensively and a complete game since the lockout.

 

[yuri28]

Crosby scored in every way imaginable that season. He was absolutely automatic on breakaways.

That half season was more dominant than any player has been, both offensively and a complete game since the lockout.

Wait, where is the goal he scored where he skated through 4-5 defenders like Geno did against Tampa Bay?

 

[yuri28]

Yes he was. It was as close to Mario-level dominance as you can get in this era.

You're mentioning the PP a lot. In 10-11, Sid had 19 PP points. (29% of his total points).

In 11-12, 34 of Geno's 109 points came on the PP. That's 31%.

Geno benefited more from the PP than Sid did in their most dominant seasons.

Lol 2% is a significant difference to you?

 

[Waffle Fries]

Yeah but he played without Sid for 80% of the season, you seem to forget that...
You know, there is something called power play in hockey where both always play together in case you forgot....

+Geno on PP
Geno didn't have Sid and Letang for most of the 2011-2012 season, in case you forget.
And please, i love Sid but don't blow that half season of him out of proportions.
He was great but he was not dominant to the point he could dangle around everyone or consistently score highlights goals.
That was not the sort of dominance you could see with Mario, Jagr or even, yes even Geno during some of his big runs.
It's not only about points, i'm talking mostly about the dominance in term of puck possession and ability to skate through the opposite defenders like they were nothing.
Sid is a fantastic passer and has a wonderful eye-coordination speed and vision but there are players who when they are at their best looks/are more dominant and harder to stop, that's all.

Lol 2% is a significant difference to you?

You're the one who was brought up the PP argument. You tried to use it to say Sid had more support from the PP.

I was just showing you that was factually incorrect.

 

[eXile59]

Sid has decent wingers and puts 3 points. Maybe it does matter who he's plays with? Oh wait when he's playing Comeau he just isn't trying hard enough.

 

[KIRK]

Sid has decent wingers and puts 3 points. Maybe it does matter who he's plays with? Oh wait when he's playing Comeau he just isn't trying hard enough.

You know, it's like the Pens don't need 3 top six wingers.

EDIT: I say 3 because the fact that Spaling-Sid-Horny > KCH should tell you all you need to know about the depths to which Kunitz has sunk.

 

[Pancakes]

You know, it's like the Pens don't need 3 top six wingers.

EDIT: I say 3 because the fact that Spaling-Sid-Horny > KCH should tell you all you need to know about the depths to which Kunitz has sunk.

It's just 1 game of course but I actually thought Spaling looked good tonight. He was reading Sid better than most do.