Speculation: Can the Oilers make any kind of significant improvements to the Defensive Corps witho

[Carlos Spicy Wiener]

If we go on the premise that...

RNH and McDavid, are untouchable at this time.

Nurse and Klefbom are part of the solution not the problem on defense, meaning almost untouchable.

Hall or Eberle could maybe be moved but a genuine #1 D under 26 has to be part of the return.

Draisaitl and Yakapov are the names most thrown out in trade proposals. With Yak we would be selling low. I have a feeling this is the year he breaks out, and with Leon we would most likely be trading a decade of a good to great center for 4 years of a mid-range #1 dman. Trading either can have significant downside in the future, and the return today for either is probably not significant enough to warrant the trade.

I personally do not think the Oil will get proper value trading a Core piece because I don’t think anyone is going to make what we need available.

As such, the question is this….
Can the Oilers improve the defense enough that we are still playing meaningful hockey in mid-February through free agency and trading second tier assets, and some of our plethora of top 100 draft picks in this year’s entry draft.

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[Beerfish]

If they get a decent to good goalie the defense, all 6 or 7 of them will magically look a lot better. I think people are understating just how terrible our goaltending has been the last two years.

 

[Oilfan2]

If they get a decent to good goalie the defense, all 6 or 7 of them will magically look a lot better. I think people are understating just how terrible our goaltending has been the last two years.

Or, if they get a couple of decent top 2 D, most goalies will look decent..even Scrivens.

 

[Comic Book Guy*]

Trevor Daley could be had for cheap and he's been a top 4 dman for over 5 years. Sekera is in the open market. Paul MArtin is a solid stop gap for Klefa and Nurse.

The Carolina Hurricanes won the cup in 06 without a #1 or #2 defenseman. It's completely possible to be competitive without those pieces. Giving up top flight forwards for a quick fix is the reason why the Edmonton Oilers franchise can't have nice things....

 

[Beerfish]

Or, if they get a couple of decent top 2 D, most goalies will look decent..even Scrivens.

I keep seeing this in almost every thread and it simply does not match up with the true test of watching the games. Scrivens and Dubnyk before him let in an inordinate amount of really bad goals.

Goals in which the D did a good enough job and the goalie let in a bad goal, terrible rebound, mishandled the puck.

Stick Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty on our team and both Scrivens and Dubs would be letting in awful goals.

Do we need better dmen? Yes. Are they as a group as terrible as people think? Nope. My eyes tell me this, not some preconceived notion.

 

[Soundwave]

McLellan's more structured coaching system for starters will likely make a large difference on its own.

That said add any two of the following (I'm including guys who I think could be had for less than any of the assets listed above, so no Yakupov or Leon trades):

Sekera
Erhoff
McQuaid
Green
Byfuglien
Martin
Daley
Seidenberg

And I think the D will be a lot better than last year. We're not winning the Cup and making up for 9 bad years all at once, the focus next year is to take a good step towards becoming a good team.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Without trading the core? Yes, without question.

 

[Soundwave]

They have assets anyway.

PIT 1st 2015, MTL 2nd 2015, EDM 2nd 2015, Justin Schultz, Martin Marincin

Plus

About $20 million in cap room and a much more attractive situation now for obvious reasons to attract some UFAs with.

It's not like they have no cards to play here.

 

[Oilfan2]

I keep seeing this in almost every thread and it simply does not match up with the true test of watching the games. Scrivens and Dubnyk before him let in an inordinate amount of really bad goals.

Goals in which the D did a good enough job and the goalie let in a bad goal, terrible rebound, mishandled the puck.

Stick Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty on our team and both Scrivens and Dubs would be letting in awful goals.

Do we need better dmen? Yes. Are they as a group as terrible as people think? Nope. My eyes tell me this, not some preconceived notion.

So then, why does Dubynk look decent now? Why did Scrivens play so well with LA?

My eyes tell me that we only have one decent defenceman at the moment and that's Fayne. He's the only one that can physically handle some of the forwards and is fast enough to control them. Even he can't do it alone and is a 2nd pairing. Klef will be a 2nd pairing, and possibly even 1st, but currently he's making too making rookie mistakes.

Good defencemen control the puck and the play. They don't get cleanly beat very often, have good awareness to be in the right place at the right time(takeaways/blocked shots), can put the puck out where they want it..either cleanly off the boards/glass or to a forward if they have that passing skill.

This makes the goalies job much easier. Sure, they'll let in a bad goal but with a combination of good defence and good offensive transition from the D, the defence will contribute to goals for as well.

Sure, good goalies can steal games but it takes a good team to be consistent. I believe a good team includes quality defense and adequate goalies.

To each his own...

 

[Philly85*]

Not significantly until next season

 

[PaPaDee]

They have assets anyway.

PIT 1st 2015, MTL 2nd 2015, EDM 2nd 2015, Justin Schultz, Martin Marincin

Plus

About $20 million in cap room and a much more attractive situation now for obvious reasons to attract some UFAs with.

It's not like they have no cards to play here.

2016 1st should also be in play IMO.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Personallly I say no. They can't

You can wait until after FA....and if you still can't find a significant defender to make a top pairing out of....(IMO you could maybe go with two top FA's and have "D by committee")

IF you can't do that I don't see the point of waiting ....go after someone and get them....

McDavid will manage.

The team will be better off with stable defence.

Option 1-look for D at the draft (16th overall + futures and cap dump gets you a top 4 D?)
Option 2-If that doesnt work trade a 2nd for cap relief and throw money at two UFA D. Also get a big forward for depth in case you do need to do step 3.
Option 3-If you still don't have D then trade a star winger or RNH, or Drai and the 2016 1st...or all of the above for the best youngish defender you can possibly get.

Or are you really going to tell me you want to wait and see and watch the same team fall to last place after drafting Connor freaking McDavid?

 

[Soundwave]

Even if they do nothing but sign say Erhoff + McQuaid, factoring in McLellan's coaching, that still likely is a fair sized improvement

Erhoff Fayne
Klefbom McQuaid
Ference Schultz

You're not going to get into the playoffs with that group, but it's an improvement.

 

[HumbleEgomaniac]

One thing I think is pretty clear is they are not going to trade their center depth to get a defenceman. That is just moving the problem around. The only way a center moves off the team is if they sign a bonafide NHL 2nd line or 3rd line center. One of our star wingers might be in play in a trade. Obviously, our second first round pick and our two second round picks will be in play as well. FA is another avenue as well and the more likely one at this point, imo. Until Chia gets a feel for the team under McLellan I don't think he is going to make any brash moves as far as trading players off of the team.

 

[Soundwave]

The other thing with Chia is he brought in players like Seidenberg, Boychuk, Krug on the blue line without giving up assets, so he could find another couple of players that way too.

 

[Comic Book Guy*]

The other thing with Chia is he brought in players like Seidenberg, Boychuk, Krug on the blue line without giving up assets, so he could find another couple of players that way too.

Trevor Daley, Jared Spurgeon, Brendan Smith, Fedor Tjutin, David Savard, Slava Voynov, etc.

There are so many dark- horse defensemen that the Oilers could have for cheap/free but we're stuck trading Hall, Ebs, Yak and RNH in every 3rd proposal.

 

[Up the Irons]

No. They can improve the Dcorp, but no significant acquisitions without giving something significant up.

 

[SK13]

You will find it easier, IMO, to move packages of futures for meaningful defenseman than you will expensive roster forwards.

Money for money trades are an extreme rarity, and the teams who are in the position to move these players are in that position because of the salary cap. Tradebait includes: Nail Yakupov, Justin Schultz, Martin Marincin, 16th overall, 33rd overall and the 2016 first round pick.

That should be sufficient. The Islanders acquired their top pairing by moving a bunch of B-tier prospects and a couple second round picks. I'd say what's on the board here is considerably more valuable than all that.

 

[Beerfish]

So then, why does Dubynk look decent now? Why did Scrivens play so well with LA?

Dubnyk looked good the year before his awful last year for us. He got better coaching, rededicated himself. Same reason as Minny was had garbage ending before him with the exact same defense. Scrivens played well in very limited appearances, a whopping 19 of them.

My eyes tell me that we only have one decent defenceman at the moment and that's Fayne. He's the only one that can physically handle some of the forwards and is fast enough to control them. Even he can't do it alone and is a 2nd pairing. Klef will be a 2nd pairing, and possibly even 1st, but currently he's making too making rookie mistakes.

Fayne isn't even decent seeing as he had a horrible plus minus and provide zero offense.

Good defencemen control the puck and the play. They don't get cleanly beat very often, have good awareness to be in the right place at the right time(takeaways/blocked shots), can put the puck out where they want it..either cleanly off the boards/glass or to a forward if they have that passing skill.

I know what good D men can do. I also know that if a good D man does what he is supposed to and the goalie lets in a muffin shot on a game by game basis it makes the D look much worse.

This makes the goalies job much easier. Sure, they'll let in a bad goal but with a combination of good defence and good offensive transition from the D, the defence will contribute to goals for as well.

Sure, good goalies can steal games but it takes a good team to be consistent. I believe a good team includes quality defense and adequate goalies.

To each his own...

It's not about a goalie stealing games at all. It's about the goalie stopping the ones he should stop most of the time. Fantastic saves or stealing games is a bonus, just don't let in bad goals or very stoppable goals often. Last year and the year before both tenders let in a lot of terrible goals whee the defense did most things right.

 

[guymez]

So then, why does Dubynk look decent now? Why did Scrivens play so well with LA?

My eyes tell me that we only have one decent defenceman at the moment and that's Fayne. He's the only one that can physically handle some of the forwards and is fast enough to control them. Even he can't do it alone and is a 2nd pairing. Klef will be a 2nd pairing, and possibly even 1st, but currently he's making too making rookie mistakes.

Good defencemen control the puck and the play. They don't get cleanly beat very often, have good awareness to be in the right place at the right time(takeaways/blocked shots), can put the puck out where they want it..either cleanly off the boards/glass or to a forward if they have that passing skill.

This makes the goalies job much easier. Sure, they'll let in a bad goal but with a combination of good defence and good offensive transition from the D, the defence will contribute to goals for as well.

Sure, good goalies can steal games but it takes a good team to be consistent. I believe a good team includes quality defense and adequate goalies.

To each his own...

Good post...completely agree.

Except to say that the team still needs an upgrade on Scrivens who isnt a #1 goalie even with an upgrade on defence.
I do however think Scrivens would be fine as a backup playing 20-25 games.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Good post...completely agree.

Except to say that the team still needs an upgrade on Scrivens who isnt a #1 goalie even with an upgrade on defence.
I do however think Scrivens would be fine as a backup playing 20-25 games.

The Oilers problems are a giant cycle. Bad defence lowers Goalies confidence. Mentally weak Goalies let in awful goals deflating the forwards. Forwards can't score and give up.

Our big problem is we keep grabbing mentally weak Goalies that have their confidence easily shattered.

Also we keep playing defensemen in over their heads, playing to many minutes.

 

[Oilfan2]

Good post...completely agree.

Except to say that the team still needs an upgrade on Scrivens who isnt a #1 goalie even with an upgrade on defence.
I do however think Scrivens would be fine as a backup playing 20-25 games.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that.

I think there are a couple in FA that could fill the bill(Ramo/Niemi) or some that can be had for a reasonable price.
I would use the draft picks/prospects to fill the D...plus UFA.
One good D trade and a signing or two and the team could be decent without giving up too much.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Good post...completely agree.

Except to say that the team still needs an upgrade on Scrivens who isnt a #1 goalie even with an upgrade on defence.
I do however think Scrivens would be fine as a backup playing 20-25 games.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that.

I think there are a couple in FA that could fill the bill(Ramo/Niemi) or some that can be had for a reasonable price.
I would use the draft picks/prospects to fill the D...plus UFA.
One good D trade and a signing or two and the team could be decent without giving up too much.

Yep.
All i want is a goalie who basically doesn't worry what the D is doing, doesn't blame the D or anything. I want a D that shows up, goes to work and gets it done. Plays his game and that's all that matters.

Ramo fits that bill and so does Niemi. We don't need a world beater, we just need a guy with some mental strength that can win us some games.

 

[joestevens29]

Of course they can. The real issue is how desperate are they at this point. A lot of interviews make is sound like playoffs isn't the key, rather building a core and getting rid of bad habits.

 

[guymez]

The Oilers problems are a giant cycle. Bad defence lowers Goalies confidence. Mentally weak Goalies let in awful goals deflating the forwards. Forwards can't score and give up.

Our big problem is we keep grabbing mentally weak Goalies that have their confidence easily shattered.

Also we keep playing defensemen in over their heads, playing to many minutes.

I agree...especially about playing dmen over their heads. Thats been a problem for years and as a result certain dmen are targeted as being useless (ie..Petry) because they are used incorrectly.

The Oilers as an Organization over the last 10 years have failed to identify top 4 dmen and legit #1 goalies. When you compound that by giving kids too much responsibility too soon (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, Draisaitl...et al) you have a recipe for failure.

Hopefully Chia will be able to identify and acquire a true #1 goalie and 2 top 4 dmen. If that happens and McLellan gets full buy in from the start of the season this team could push 90 points.

Thats a lot of things to check off in a short period of time though.