What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
In no world is it okay to pay a guy 6.5M to start 40 games (at best). Ward needs to go, even if he bounces back. Thomas Greiss can accomplish the same amount for a fraction of the price.
Speculation: Cam Ward / Vinny Lecavalier
- Thread starter Boom Boom Apathy
- Start date
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
- 18,179
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Well sure if you can dump Cam for nothing. But that isn't all that likely. If you trade him for a different terrible contract for a terrible player who has a negative impact on every game you play for the next 4 years it's not exactly an improvement.
Anton Babchuk
Registered User
i wouldn't trade him for lecavalier. i'm just speaking in general terms that i think he should be traded
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
- 48,391
- 98,067
Problem is, I don't think you are going to get a much better offer (depending on salary retention)>
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
The problem is, one of the few top-9 centers worse than Lecavalier is Riley Nash.
- Oct 31, 2007
- 39,285
- 41,390
True, but Nash isn't going to potentially handcuff you with his contract for the next 5 years. Well, Riley Nash won't.
Can Ward 1) bounce back and 2) share the net with Khudobin effectively?
If the answer is "yes" to both, spending $8.5MM on a great (theoretical) tandem is not absurd. It's certainly a premium, but the depth can be some good insurance.
If RF believes the answer to either is "no", money issues aside, Ward needs to go...and Greiss is certainly a nice candidate as a replacement.
If RF decides to move Ward, Ward for Lecavalier is the type of trade that'll happen.
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
Spending 8.5M in goal is absurd when it means you're not able to address other problems. There are other terrible contracts in the NHL for players that aren't terrible.
EDIT: And since we're on the subject: Nash vs. Lecavalier. Remember, one makes ~10% of the other, and is 10 years younger.
EDIT2: I wonder if something around Ward + Harrison/Liles for Lecavalier + Coburn could work. No idea how willing Philadelphia is to move him, though.
EDIT: And since we're on the subject: Nash vs. Lecavalier. Remember, one makes ~10% of the other, and is 10 years younger.
EDIT2: I wonder if something around Ward + Harrison/Liles for Lecavalier + Coburn could work. No idea how willing Philadelphia is to move him, though.
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HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
Yeah I wouldn't do this. It didn't make a lot of sense to me last summer that Philadelphia signed Vinny to such a large contract last summer, let alone sign him in the first place.
I know Cam Wards trade value isn't that hot anymore, but there's got to be a better offer out there. And for the love of of all things holy, every time we play his team regardless of where he is, he will get the start and play like prime Patrick Roy/Martin Brodeur combined. I'd rather that happen outside our division.
I know Cam Wards trade value isn't that hot anymore, but there's got to be a better offer out there. And for the love of of all things holy, every time we play his team regardless of where he is, he will get the start and play like prime Patrick Roy/Martin Brodeur combined. I'd rather that happen outside our division.
- Oct 31, 2007
- 39,285
- 41,390
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
Lecavalier shot 15.2% last year, better than any year since 2006-07 and three points higher than his career average. He hasn't played anywhere close to a full season since 2009-10. He barely posted a better ES points/60 than Nash, but it was still the lowest in his career. Half his production came on the PP. That's really expensive for a powerplay specialist whose last three seasons possession wise were the worst since the metric started becoming widly tracked in 2007-08. He's been a complete liability lately.
Everything no about Lecavalier unless they're getting another useful piece in return.
Everything no about Lecavalier unless they're getting another useful piece in return.
- Dec 6, 2011
- 12,383
- 39,526
I really want to get rid of Ward if possible. But I have always disliked Lecavalier. And he no longer has the redeeming quality of being a good hockey player to make up for that. Big time pass.
jeromeo87
Registered User
- Jul 23, 2010
- 1,752
- 84
rocky7
DAT 13
I think Vinny is riding on fumes now and that's just too long. if the will to move Ward is there, and Ward himself may very well want a fresh start, there are likely better options out there. there's still lots of time. I think he'll be moved soon with a better deal than this.
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
^^ How low can NHL minuses go?
Ward (13%) retained + Harrison for Lecavalier + Coburn swings 2M of cap space from Carolina to Philadelphia, but given cap hits to respective players, I think Carolina actually saves real dollars. Again, I don't know anything about Coburn's availability, but he'd be a solid second pairing guy. Maybe do a bit of balancing, but it leaves the door open for another move or two.
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Jeff Skinner ($5.725m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Elias Lindholm ($0.925m)
Jiri Tlusty ($3.200m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / Alexander Semin ($7.000m)
Nathan Gerbe ($1.750m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Brad Richards ($3.500m)
Patrick Dwyer ($0.900m) / Riley Nash ($0.575m) / Andrei Loktionov ($1.200m)
Chris Terry ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrej Sekera ($2.750m) / Justin Faulk ($4.833m)
Ron Hainsey ($2.833m) / Brett Bellemore ($0.800m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Ryan Murphy ($0.863m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) /
GOALTENDERS
Anton Khudobin ($2.250m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (2.49% of upper limit)
Tuomo Ruutu ($0.950m—20.00%)
Cam Ward ($0.819m—13.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,599,000; BONUSES: $1,300,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,501,000
Defense is better, but still not great. Exchange Richards for Stralman if you want, but then you probably have to find a taker for Liles, which wouldn't be easy. And you'd still need to plug the 3RW.
Any way you swing it, Ward for Lecavalier isn't ideal at all. But if that's all there is, something like this might be better than spending 8.5M in goal.
Ward (13%) retained + Harrison for Lecavalier + Coburn swings 2M of cap space from Carolina to Philadelphia, but given cap hits to respective players, I think Carolina actually saves real dollars. Again, I don't know anything about Coburn's availability, but he'd be a solid second pairing guy. Maybe do a bit of balancing, but it leaves the door open for another move or two.
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Jeff Skinner ($5.725m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Elias Lindholm ($0.925m)
Jiri Tlusty ($3.200m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / Alexander Semin ($7.000m)
Nathan Gerbe ($1.750m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Brad Richards ($3.500m)
Patrick Dwyer ($0.900m) / Riley Nash ($0.575m) / Andrei Loktionov ($1.200m)
Chris Terry ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrej Sekera ($2.750m) / Justin Faulk ($4.833m)
Ron Hainsey ($2.833m) / Brett Bellemore ($0.800m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Ryan Murphy ($0.863m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) /
GOALTENDERS
Anton Khudobin ($2.250m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (2.49% of upper limit)
Tuomo Ruutu ($0.950m—20.00%)
Cam Ward ($0.819m—13.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,599,000; BONUSES: $1,300,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,501,000
Defense is better, but still not great. Exchange Richards for Stralman if you want, but then you probably have to find a taker for Liles, which wouldn't be easy. And you'd still need to plug the 3RW.
Any way you swing it, Ward for Lecavalier isn't ideal at all. But if that's all there is, something like this might be better than spending 8.5M in goal.
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Anton Babchuk
Registered User
because skinner worked so well with estaal. surely pairing him with a slower, even worse defensively version of staal will produce magic. mostly for the other team.
Unsustainable
Seth Jarvis is Elite
spockBokk
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2013
- 7,129
- 17,885
After thinking about this, I think I'd reluctantly accept this deal.
The point has been made that if Ward is moved it's probably going to be bad contract for bad contract. VL at least would give the team some return on his bad contract. He did score 20g last year and would probably help our anemic powerplay. His offensive contributions would probably help the team out more at the $6M than Ward and his below .900 save %.
What I really don't like is any salary retention, the bonuses in VL's remaining contract years and the length of VL's contract, 4 more years vs. Ward's 2 more years. Even so, as long as the salary retention, if applicable, isn't crazy, I still do the deal, as I think VL helps the team more now than Ward.
The point has been made that if Ward is moved it's probably going to be bad contract for bad contract. VL at least would give the team some return on his bad contract. He did score 20g last year and would probably help our anemic powerplay. His offensive contributions would probably help the team out more at the $6M than Ward and his below .900 save %.
What I really don't like is any salary retention, the bonuses in VL's remaining contract years and the length of VL's contract, 4 more years vs. Ward's 2 more years. Even so, as long as the salary retention, if applicable, isn't crazy, I still do the deal, as I think VL helps the team more now than Ward.
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
spockBokk
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2013
- 7,129
- 17,885
You're probably right, but 20g, 20a season may not be crazy to hope for.
I didn't think about the buyout option for Ward, and then maybe a minor something to PHI for VL. Would that save $$$? I'm certainly no CBA expert.
All of this is probably moot anyway, as I still have the gut feeling that Ward is still a Cane come October.
RodTheBawd
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2013
- 5,529
- 8,604
What the Faulk
You'll know when you go
djboos22
Aho (insert pun)
I love Vinny, but I would rather keep Ward at this point. If Ward is healthy and he performs like he could, he would make a bigger difference then Vinny would.
