Cale Makar wins the Norris Trophy (2022)

[klozge]

Every year there are some topperforming europeans who get’s robbed.

I mean if Tampa win SC it’s gonna be Stamkos for Conn Smythe. If Avs win it’s Makar. Just because it’s too close to the other candidates and then they just go with the canadians. It’s just the way it is.

Might be but Makar was simply better than Josi this season.

 

[63 others]

Josi would have deserved the norris or the hart. Theres def a voters bias

 

[Slurpeelover27]

Yes the left hand side is adjusted for the quality of your teammates and the quality of your competition. I've watched plenty of Preds and Avs games. Makar is better.

Makar absolutely dominated Josi in the first round of the playoffs this year. It was not even close to how much better Cale was in every facet of the game. And yes Colorado is a better team, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that Cale is on the team.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

I have a feeling once ballots are released it will reveal strategic voting from the Colorado chapter of the PHWA. If they loaded up Josi with the 3rd and 4th place votes (as well as leaving him off the ballot) there should be some form of repercussion. Awards voting shouldn't be a fanboy competition.

 

[Brunkmeister]

Might be but Makar was simply better than Josi this season.

Not much that supports this. Josi was better in almost every aspect and played for a worse team.

Most points in total for a defender since Phil Housley in 92-93. That should be awarded in my eyes.

 

[who_me?]

Mikhail Makarov > Roman Josi

 

[redandyellowcametobe]

I have a feeling once ballots are released it will reveal strategic voting from the Colorado chapter of the PHWA. If they loaded up Josi with the 3rd and 4th place votes (as well as leaving him off the ballot) there should be some form of repercussion. Awards voting shouldn't be a fanboy competition.

I’ve seen a few third and fourth place votes for Josi and they weren’t Colorado media. Their order seemed to favor play in the defensive side of things.

 

[BonMorrison]

Everyone ignoring the fact that Josi is like 40x hotter than Makar and that alone should've tipped the scales.

 

[dmac7719]

Not much that supports this. Josi was better in almost every aspect and played for a worse team.

Most points in total for a defender since Phil Housley in 92-93. That should be awarded in my eyes.

Yup, Josi defiantely better at everything

Spoiler: Makar

Spoiler: Josi

You seem to be the one basing opinions on biases

 

[klozge]

Not much that supports this. Josi was better in almost every aspect and played for a worse team.

Most points in total for a defender since Phil Housley in 92-93. That should be awarded in my eyes.

Sorry, but this is extreme BS. Check some stats and watch some games.

 

[Mac Attack]

So according to the voters….Josi is much more valuable to his team than Makar but not a better defender??
View attachment 560775

Yes. His team does not have the ability to score without him.

 

[Wedontneedroads]

Makar is fantastic, but Josi deserved it this year.

Anyone that had Josi out of the top 2 should lose their vote going forward.

 

[Voight]

Every year there are some topperforming europeans who get’s robbed.

I mean if Tampa win SC it’s gonna be Stamkos for Conn Smythe. If Avs win it’s Makar. Just because it’s too close to the other candidates and then they just go with the canadians. It’s just the way it is.

I wouldn't worry about the Conn Smythe. Its really a narrative trophy a lot of the time - recent examples being Justin Williams & Sidney Crosby.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

As for JFresh during prime karlsson, you know they can rewatch games and pull the same data they do today to make these cards.

Those just describe what they measure, he does not provide a formula. Do you know what an algebra formula is? Because there isn't a single one displayed in that article.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

I’ve seen a few third and fourth place votes for Josi and they weren’t Colorado media. Their order seemed to favor play in the defensive side of things.

It doesn't pass the smell test. Seventeen 3rd place votes and three 4th place votes for the Norris favourite versus five 3rd place votes and zero 4th place votes for Makar? Something doesn't add up here.

Edit. I just looked at the voters. I'm totally wrong, there doesn't seem to be any pattern. Really confusing voting, and it was Scott Powers out of Chicago that left him off the ballot.

 

[redandyellowcametobe]

It doesn't pass the smell test. Seventeen 3rd place votes and three 4th place votes for the Norris favourite versus five 3rd place votes and zero 4th place votes for Makar? Something doesn't add up here.

Because Josi’s defensive play was called into question when Makars wasn’t this year. That’s why Josi had 3rd+ votes and Makar didn’t. Makar's played the PK, Josi didn’t. Makar was deployed against other teams toughest matchups. Josi wasn’t. Josi had double the amount of turnovers as Makar. He gave away the puck a ton more. Even if you don’t want to use fancy stats, there were pretty basic stats one could look at and see a difference in play.

There was a tweet about 3/4 the way thru the season regarding the Norris when things got interesting. I can’t remember which one but I believe it was a writer for the athletic. Could be wrong on that though. They went around asking NHL GMS who they had for the Norris. A few of them left Josi off of top three bc “they believe it was a an all around award and stats are now being taking into consideration more than ever”

I don’t have any doubt a few stat heavy voters took this into consideration. Dom from the athletic and Buch from ESPN both clearly took defensive play into their votes. Not everything is a conspiracy. If Josi won the Norris trailing Carlson by ten points - why is this vote so outlandish? It’s a similar type scenario.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Because Josi’s defensive play was called into question when Makars wasn’t this year. That’s why Josi had 3rd+ votes and Makar didn’t. Makar's played the PK, Josi didn’t. Makar was deployed against other teams toughest matchups. Josi wasn’t. Josi had double the amount of turnovers as Makar. He gave away the puck a ton more. Even if you don’t want to use fancy stats, there were pretty basic stats one could look at and see a difference in play.

There was a tweet about 3/4 the way thru the season regarding the Norris when things got interesting. I can’t remember which one but I believe it was a writer for the athletic. Could be wrong on that though. They went around asking NHL GMS who they had for the Norris. A few of them left Josi off of top three bc “they believe it was a an all around award and stats are now being taking into consideration more than ever”

I don’t have any doubt a few stat heavy voters took this into consideration. Dom from the athletic and Buch from ESPN both clearly took defensive play into their votes. Not everything is a conspiracy. If Josi won the Norris trailing Carlson by ten points - why is this vote so outlandish? It’s a similar type scenario.

Again, I have no issue with Makar winning the Norris, he had an incredible year and fully deserves it. I have issue with the voting, as Josi had the most 1st place votes. He lost due to a writer fully leaving him off the ballot, three others leaving him out of the top 3, and a suspicious number of 3rd place votes.

 

[redandyellowcametobe]

Again, I have no issue with Makar winning the Norris, he had an incredible year and fully deserves it. I have issue with the voting, as Josi had the most 1st place votes. He lost due to a writer fully leaving him off the ballot, three others leaving him out of the top 3, and a suspicious number of 3rd place votes.

I wouldn’t have had any problem with Josi winning it. I’m just telling you why I think he didn’t. I don’t think it’s suspicious at all.

Edit * besides the writer leaving him off completely. That one wouldn’t have mattered anyway though.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

For the Norris trophy, Josi was ranked ahead of Makar on 99 ballots (Makar was ahead on 96 ballots).

Of the 99 voters who ranked Josi ahead:
- 94 of them had Josi first and Makar second
- 4 of them had Josi first and Makar third
- 1 of of them had Josi second and Makar third

Of the 96 voters who ranked Makar ahead:
- 75 of them had Makar first and Josi second
- 14 of them had Makar first and Josi third
- 3 of them had Makar second and Josi third
- 2 of them had Makar first and Josi fourth
- 1 of them had Makar second and Josi fourth
- 1 of them had Makar first and excluded Josi

Overall - a slight majority of voters ranked Josi ahead. But with very few exceptions, those who ranked Josi first had Makar right behind (95 of 99 "Josi" voters had Makar one spot behind). But there were a fair number of voters who put Makar first by a wider margin (18 of them had a gap of at least two spots between them).

In case anyone is curious about bias - both Terry Frei from Colorado Hockey and Mike Chambers from the Denver Post ranked Makar 1st and Josi 2nd. There's no evidence of strategic voting there. I'm not sure if there was a voter from Nashville.

 

[bleedgreen]

Makar absolutely dominated Josi in the first round of the playoffs this year. It was not even close to how much better Cale was in every facet of the game. And yes Colorado is a better team, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that Cale is on the team.

The award is based off the regular season, playoffs don’t count.

I think both are deserving so it’s hard to get too upset but the guy with the most first place votes should win. Josi should be recognized for what he did this year.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

The award is based off the regular season, playoffs don’t count.

I think both are deserving so it’s hard to get too upset but the guy with the most first place votes should win. Josi should be recognized for what he did this year.

Yes, I am aware of that. The point was that in the end the voters got it right. Makar is better than Josi. And it isn't just about the points. The series showed how much better Makar is currently. What better way than to demonstrate by seeing them play head to head in a 7 game series.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yes, I am aware of that. The point was that in the end the voters got it right. Makar is better than Josi. And it isn't just about the points. The series showed how much better Makar is currently. What better way than to demonstrate by seeing them play head to head in a 7 game series.

It had virtually no bearing on it and shouldn’t, and was not representative of the season they had. Playoffs are a completely different animal, Josi at the very least matched Makar all year. What happened in the playoffs is irrelevant for this. Makar was not “much better” all year, and I follow the Avs.

 

[Chips]

It doesn't pass the smell test. Seventeen 3rd place votes and three 4th place votes for the Norris favourite versus five 3rd place votes and zero 4th place votes for Makar? Something doesn't add up here.

Edit. I just looked at the voters. I'm totally wrong, there doesn't seem to be any pattern. Really confusing voting, and it was Scott Powers out of Chicago that left him off the ballot.

There are many voters for Norris (and Selke) who value offense and rep much more than anything. So Makar and Josi were always going to get a lot of votes


There is pushback tho by a lot of the same people who always lament it’s an offense award. Some will actively look for a more balanced game, a few probably even prefer stay at home guys who don’t score as much (Slavin) as the others.


The former (previous paragraph) will likely have Makar, who was better defensively, and Hedman in some combination as 1 or 2. That right there makes a big difference as Josi was slightly higher in 1st place votes, but Makar had a much bigger difference in 2nd place votes than that.

The latter voters will probably throw in a vote for the obvious defensive Dman options Slavin and McAvoy, which seems to be the case looking at the general tally tho I’m too lazy to look at every specific voter. It’s a matter of did they prefers some combination of Josi with Makar or Hedman, or Makar and Hedman with McAvoy/Slavin/Ekblad (I didn’t mention the inevitable homer votes as well)




People who lament it being an all offense award should be happy with this result and the voting system. I absolutely love Josi but he’s had better defensive seasons. Whether he consciously decided he was willing to sacrifice some defensive impact to help his team score more, or just inadvertently sacrificed some impact, that seems generally the gist what happened. I think his teams lost big players recently including scorers, and they centered their offensive game plan around him.

———
———————-
Some players have the combination of right tools, IQ (and probably things like system play in) to excel at both. Makar has been figuring it out more each year and absolutely deserves a ‘two-way’ title now.


Some players might have better defense one year w worse offense, then suddenly score way more but their defensive impact decreases. We saw it with Barkov (who had better defensive years before his Selke win), Stone saw his dip the last season as we saw him increase his offense; still plenty of takeaways but less all around impact.


Hedman is better defensively than Makar and Josi but scored less, Makar was better defensively this year than Josi who suddenly exploded offensively way more than he’s scored before

 

[Iceman]

Weird voting rules then. What Josi did on that Nashville team was insane

Yeah, when you think about it, losing with more first place votes just because you probably had more third place votes and the other guy more second place votes seems rather odd. Shouldn't change the outcome. A few bias votes will make that difference. Any vote outside top 3 would be biased against that player.

 

[Joey Banana]

Eh, either seems fine.

It only sucks when a close call leads to a great dman finishing his career without a Norris (see Shea Weber).