Cal Heeter

Embiid

On early summer vacay
May 27, 2010
32,706
21,035
Philadelphia
Avascular necrosis is not something that needs to be reinjured. The issue with Emery's hip is not that he had some trauma to it three years ago and it has since healed and been reaggrivated. He has a degenerative bone issue in his hips. I've had injuries and tried to finish out a season or a play-offs on an injured hip before. I know what a goalie's movement looks like when he is trying to nurse one or two bad hips along. Emery's hips hurt him after and likely during every game he plays. I'd bet a lot on it.

Look at him get up next time he plays. If a puck is in your zone as a goalie, usually you're keeping your hands up and ready and your torso upright and aimed at the play while your legs move fairly independantly to get you back into the shot lane. If the puck is to your left and you're down in the butterfly, you plant your right skate and in one motion begin your stride towards the puck and lifting yourself up off the ice. Varlamov, Schneider and Jack Campbell for the Stars all execute this recovery super smooth and efficient. So they flow like water from the butterfly to their ready stance. Mason's pretty good about it too. During Emery's recovery from the butterfly he is bent over (not upright), he plants his foot down with his shin straight up in front of him (with no rotation, abduction or adduction of the hip joint). He then puts his blocker or his glove on the top of the upright pad and pushes his torso up as he stands. Once this motion is done and he is fully upright, he moves to the shot lane.

There are a couple explanations why a goalie would do this. If they didn't know better technique they might, but Emery surely does know better. If they're just lazy, which again I don't think is the case for Emery. Or if their legs and core are too weak to get up and over at the same time. This is possibly true if you're a heavy goalie (Emery isn't) or if your legs are weak from not being able to lift/run/train, which might be the case for him due to managing hip workload, but I really doubt that. My guess is that it isn't any of those. I think he has the leg and core strength to execute that technique, but loading the hip joint up with that much force while it's in the awkward position that recovery requires causes him a lot of pain. You can see, just from how he's moving, that he his hips are on the way out. Barring some really impressive feats of medecine, I don't know how this can get any better.



Any team that can shoot at his feet and crash the net for a rebound consistently, or move a puck east to west and quickly put a shot on goal is going to feast on Emery (I'm not talking a Stamkos one-timer either, I mean a simple wobbling wrist shot somewhere in the appropriate third of the net). In addition, if they get set up behind the net Emey struggles badly with this as well, since you need to be able to react and quickly get a foot against the post the puck carrier chooses to attack and seal the ice with your pad. He can't get wide enough or low enough to deal with this situation effectively, which is why you saw Carcillo score the way he did.

I am a bit of a student of goal tending technique and look for it during games, but I feel extremely confident that if I'm seeing this **** from my couch at home, then Jeff Reese is seeing it too. Yet these issues are getting worse and not better, and it's because you can't coach someone who isn't healthy enough to execute the techniques. The guy is done as a solid contributor in the NHL. He may get another team to carry him for one year after this one but his career is about over. No shame in it, he had a pretty amazing run considering his physical limitations.

Love detailed arguments like this.....it is definitely clear that Razor is compensating when he is in net.
 

Giroux tha Damaja

Registered User
Apr 17, 2009
9,247
0
Mount Holly, NJ
Well hey, I'm no doctor. If you guys are telling me that this is, in fact, the type of injury that lays dormant for three years, then all of the sudden creeps up without being re-injured, ok. I was unaware of that fact and withdraw my statements. Seems like if this was the case there would have been a little more concern from Anaheim, Chicago, and the Flyers (this fanbase too with the way we overreact about every signing). I don't recall people being too worried about his injury when he was signed.

It's not so much that it's an "injury" that flares up. It's a long slow breaking down. As for whether or not there were fans who were perplexed and vocal, I can say for a fact there was at least one. Most fans don't bother with every back up goalies health history etc. so it makes sense nobody said much about it.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
Sponsor
Sep 24, 2009
23,539
4,529
NJ
It's not so much that it's an "injury" that flares up. It's a long slow breaking down. As for whether or not there were fans who were perplexed and vocal, I can say for a fact there was at least one. Most fans don't bother with every back up goalies health history etc. so it makes sense nobody said much about it.

That's fine. Like I said, I was under the impression that it was more of an injury that needs re-injuring, and that it would take less to hurt it further. Like a glassjaw kind of thing. If it is an injury that just wears you down or whatever, ok, then I understand the lack of patience.

As far as the fans are concerned, I know I was one who was not interested in bringing Emery back because of his injury, but when he played well in Anaheim and Chicago, I was less concerned because I thought it wasn't an issue any longer and would only come in to play if he tweaked it. Either way...discussion over. Move on.
 

FlyersFanz

aut viam inveniam au
Jan 26, 2010
2,045
0
BlkVanOutsideUrHouse
''The Heet is On'' (Glenn Frey)I can see the Flyers playing this song at Wells Fargo when Heeter is in net.
Emery at times has been solid but Heeter needs a chance in the big leagues and being Mason's backup will get Heeter some experience at least until Stolarz is in the picture.
 

Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,699
4,591
Emery had/has (not sure which word applies here really) hip necrosis. I'm not a doctor by any means, but I know what the word "necrosis" means and it's really, really bad. It's degenerative. You don't have to be a doctor to know what the word "necrosis" entails.

I was willing to give Emery a shot with a short leash when we got him because he did put up stellar numbers with Chicago and I didn't think any team could make a guy with essentially dead hips look that good on paper, but apparently I was wrong.

Every time Emery plays the Flyers have to play a great game one way or another to compensate most of the time. He has no lateral movement to the point where it's the worst lateral movement I've ever seen in an NHL goalie. Nothing else about his game is all that special. His initial positioning and technique aren't bad at all, but they have to be because he doesn't have the movement to not have good technique or positioning on initial shots.

The Flyers are in the thick of a playoff race and you really can't be throwing away points in any way, shape, or form in that scenario. It wasn't long ago that the Flyers got into the playoffs on the last game of the season off of a shootout win. That's how close it is sometimes and pretty much how close it is right now.

Mason also isn't established enough as a legitimate starter to have a shaky backup at best behind him. If Mason falters or gets injured or needs games off we're screwed because Emery can't be a starter.

Anyhow, as far as Heeter goes, I'm wary of a guy with little pedigree or hype prior to this season that jumps from a .908 to .930 save percentage on a defensive AHL team. That screams to me "this guy's numbers are a fraud". AHL numbers in themselves also don't mean much. Michael Leighton has won AHL goalie of the year many times and you all saw how "great" he was for us.

If come trade deadline time the Flyers have a good advantage on the number two spot in the division like they almost did before and Mason doesn't pick it up really soon I actually wouldn't be opposed to acquiring a guy like Miller or Halak or Hiller or whatever just because we are absolutely screwed if Mason doesn't pick it back up and we have nobody ready to step in to fill that role realistically. Heeter is a long-shot.

In the meantime though I don't really care whether they stick with Emery or give Heeter a shot. The whole predicament is on management for going into the season with Mason/Emery as your goalie combo and nothing in the system to step in immediately.

I've never seen anyone more determined to to deny reality on a hockey forum. Honestly, I've had enough.

I decided the same thing very long ago.
 

bauerhockey02

Registered User
Mar 15, 2009
318
0
That's fine. Like I said, I was under the impression that it was more of an injury that needs re-injuring, and that it would take less to hurt it further. Like a glassjaw kind of thing. If it is an injury that just wears you down or whatever, ok, then I understand the lack of patience.

As far as the fans are concerned, I know I was one who was not interested in bringing Emery back because of his injury, but when he played well in Anaheim and Chicago, I was less concerned because I thought it wasn't an issue any longer and would only come in to play if he tweaked it. Either way...discussion over. Move on.

After taking the time to read through this thread you have repeatedly made the point that Emery was good in the other three seasons that he played since injury.

2010-2011 with the Ducks he played just 10 games in the regular season where he went 7-2 with a .926 SV% and 2.28 GAA which is pretty good but is a very low number of games. He played in the playoffs as well that year for them and played 6 games with a 2-3 record with an .897 SV% and 3.20 GAA.

2011-2012 Emery played for the Blackhawks and appeared in 34 games with a 14-9-4 record along with a .900 SV% and a 2.81 GAA. This would not qualify as having played well if you go by stats.

Last season he played in 21 games and posted a spectacular 17-1-3 record with a .922 SV% and 1.94 GAA.


As a result, regardless of injury history, Emery was rather inconsistent when you look at his stats the last 3 years. In fact, he only played 16 games total during his season with the Ducks when you include the playoffs which look to have been poor. With Chicago he had a good record both years but his individual stats are not good for both years, only one year.

Emery has been inconsistent from year to year his whole career in the NHL. Look at his 3 years with the Senators when he played more than 3 games a season. So ignoring his hip injury....why, at 31 years old, should we be patient and expect him to all of a sudden become consistently solid when he has not shown consistency from year to year yet in his career? This is what really confuses me about your argument in this topic, as I am ignoring that his injury is degenerative since you did not realize that, yet am still able to find an issue with having patience with Emery.

Not trying to attack you or anything like that, I am just legitimately confused about why you thought we should be patient with Emery before you understood his injury. I am also confused why you thought he played well the last 3 seasons when he seems to have been pretty average 2 out of the 3 seasons.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8469548#&navid=nhl-search

In regards to Heeter playing backup next season I would probably say keep him on the phantoms next year in case this was a fluke this year and instead look for someone in free agency to back up Mason. Heeter can be brought up if there is an injury.
 
Last edited:

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,672
1,598
Carinthia, AUT
After taking the time to read through this thread you have repeatedly made the point that Emery was good in the other three seasons that he played since injury.

2010-2011 with the Ducks he played just 10 games in the regular season where he went 7-2 with a .926 SV% and 2.28 GAA which is pretty good but is a very low number of games. He played in the playoffs as well that year for them and played 6 games with a 2-3 record with an .897 SV% and 3.20 GAA.

2011-2012 Emery played for the Blackhawks and appeared in 34 games with a 14-9-4 record along with a .900 SV% and a 2.81 GAA. This would not qualify as having played well if you go by stats.

Last season he played in 21 games and posted a spectacular 17-1-3 record with a .922 SV% and 1.94 GAA.


As a result, regardless of injury history, Emery was rather inconsistent when you look at his stats the last 3 years. In fact, he only played 16 games total during his season with the Ducks when you include the playoffs which look to have been poor. With Chicago he had a good record both years but his individual stats are not good for both years, only one year.

Emery has been inconsistent from year to year his whole career in the NHL. Look at his 3 years with the Senators when he played more than 3 games a season. So ignoring his hip injury....why, at 31 years old, should we be patient and expect him to all of a sudden become consistently solid when he has not shown consistency from year to year yet in his career? This is what really confuses me about your argument in this topic, as I am ignoring that his injury is degenerative since you did not realize that, yet am still able to find an issue with having patience with Emery.

Not trying to attack you or anything like that, I am just legitimately confused about why you thought we should be patient with Emery before you understood his injury. I am also confused why you thought he played well the last 3 seasons when he seems to have been pretty average 2 out of the 3 seasons.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8469548#&navid=nhl-search

In regards to Heeter playing backup next season I would probably say keep him on the phantoms next year in case this was a fluke this year and instead look for someone in free agency to back up Mason. Heeter can be brought up if there is an injury.

If Mason bounces back and looks like the real deal again by the end of the season, they could go with a bargain backup next season and rotate Heeter into the mix if he plays well.

Emery was supposed to be a #1B but does not live up to expectations. There are better cheaper backups available next offseason...

A lot of IFs, I know....
 
Last edited:

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad