C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part III

[93LEAFS]

Yeah, as it were, Columbus subverts the normal team structure that you want your top 2 lines to score more than they get scored on and you want your bottom 2 lines to get scored on more than they score, but to keep that margin as low as possible, but merely having 4 bottom 6 lines that are also trying to minimize margins and then hoping for some unforeseen offense on lines TBD in a given game. Like a worse version of the Stars. Also, he's always paired with Atkinson or Texier...and I just always wonder why they have this defensive concept but they still have a player like Texier.

For sure if his processing of the game is lackluster that could be a real problem en route to having him play that role.


Actually pretty curious about your thoughts on this. I've heard this before from Leafs fans, but I wonder how much of that is resultant of low expectations that Leafs fans have for their forwards when it comes to defense, because the Leafs PK was also not one of the better PKs in the league this year and the Leafs were also like 6th (or 26th) in GA/G on the season.

Not going to debate or heavily discuss Marner's defensive play in a thread about Byfield. It's solid. He's not Mark Stone, but given his limitations in puck battle's it is good.

I wouldn't say its lackluster, but, I don't think its on the high-end scale. If he thought the game at the speed Stuzle, Laf or Perfetti, there wouldn't be a debate about who was going one, and it wouldn't involve Laf.

 

[kabidjan18]

Not going to debate or heavily discuss Marner's defensive play in a thread about Byfield. It's solid. He's not Mark Stone, but given his limitations in puck battle's it is good.

I didn't intend to debate either. I have my thoughts but of course I'd respect your opinion.

I wouldn't say its lackluster, but, I don't think its on the high-end scale. If he thought the game at the speed Stuzle, Byfield or Perfetti, there wouldn't be a debate about who was going one, and it wouldn't involve Laf.

I assume the bolded is Laf haha.

Interesting. See, I wrote earlier in this thread about what I perceived about the IQ debate.

I haven't been keeping up too much with this thread, but I saw someone mention hockey IQ. I'll just say this. Every big man gets labeled with "hockey IQ" issues because of the way hockey IQ is defined in the modern era. Bigger players lack acceleration, even though they can have good top speeds, so even though they may recognize gaps in coverage at the same speed, they will not reach the gap at the same speed. That is kinda an inevitable fact about physiology. Another is that it's harder for bigger players to leverage their sticks. You can do the physics, see how much control you have if you're holding the end of a 1 foot stick vs a 3 foot stick vs a 10 foot stick. So you may see an opening, but the process of changing the position of the puck from one side to another or the process of moving your posture from one configuration to another may take longer, and because of that it is more difficult to take advantage of the same opportunities.

The whole quote is on page 3. Do you think that part of the perception about his processing of the game is linked to his problematic size or do you think that he's a mediocre processor of the game even among similarly sized players?[/QUOTE]

 

[DollardStLaurent]

Great response in general. There is not a single sports writer in NY claiming we might take Byfield. In fact, just the opposite with all stating the known fact that Laf is a lock at 1. So whoever is the rogue morons writing as such are really just click baiting.

Are any of these sportswriters named Gorton or Davidson?

 

[93LEAFS]

I didn't intend to debate either. I have my thoughts but of course I'd respect your opinion.


I assume the bolded is Laf haha.

Interesting. See, I wrote earlier in this thread about what I perceived about the IQ debate.



The whole quote is on page 3. Do you think that part of the perception about his processing of the game is linked to his problematic size or do you think that he's a mediocre processor of the game even among similarly sized players?

[/QUOTE]
I think size is not a factor. It is about positioning and knowing where to be, and how to use that to open up ice. Its a major reason guys need to be scouted in-person, and as mentioned in that Athletic article scouts complain. Unless we start getting all-22 style tape like we do for the NFL/NCAA football. It's too hard to track off-puck play with most junior hockey film, and it creates real limitations. Guys with very high-IQ like Laf or Perfetti excel at doing things like dragging a defender out of place while off the puck which creates more options or an opening for the guy with the puck. So much of Hockey IQ is reflected in instances where guys aren't asked to make a quick reaction with the puck.

 

[Just Linda]

I find this a bit of a strange take in regards to consensus. I mean, Bob's list is the best barometer of consensus around, and Stutzle is ranked 2nd there.

As for Byfield, I think more people are sold on what he could be, than what he actually is. People are really underestimating the risk associated with him. You are putting a lot of faith in development for a top 3 pick. He's still quite raw, which creates more potential road bumps and detours on the path to reach what many who are high on him are expecting him to be.

I mean, if I was pulling my goalie right now and I had to choose between Stutzle and Byfield, it wouldnt be a super easy choice right now today.

When we talk about the risk of Byfield while debating him against Stutzle... Well, what about Stutzle's risk? He is as flawed of a player as Byfield in vastly different ways. I love to point out Barzal as a player who overcome the flaws in Stutzle's game but I can think of other comparables (Drouin) who kept those same flaws.

I think Byfield's rawness and flaws are two different discussions. Every top prospect has flaws, most have rawness.

 

[kabidjan18]

I think size is not a factor. It is about positioning and knowing where to be, and how to use that to open up ice. Its a major reason guys need to be scouted in-person, and as mentioned in that Athletic article scouts complain. Unless we start getting all-22 style tape like we do for the NFL/NCAA football. It's too hard to track off-puck play with most junior hockey film, and it creates real limitations. Guys with very high-IQ like Laf or Perfetti excel at doing things like dragging a defender out of place while off the puck which creates more options or an opening for the guy with the puck. So much of Hockey IQ is reflected in instances where guys aren't asked to make a quick reaction with the puck.

Nice, that's more of a technical approach to Hockey IQ instead of a more colloquial definition.

I'll tell you what. This reminds me of the conversation we had, I realize now must have been 4-5 years ago. About Puljujarvi, and how you knocked him for hockey IQ. Retrospectively, that was not a fantastic draft outside of the top player. The degree to which you've been down on Byfield is probably worrisome given your track record on these things.

When it's all said and done, this year's draft might just not be a good draft. If Stutzle could become Barzal that would be fantastic. But if he becomes a glass cannon, I think where the league is heading, he'd be one of those players who always puts up the points and inexplicably his team never wins.

 

[Polar Bear]

Are any of these sportswriters named Gorton or Davidson?

No which is why it’s even more silly since JD outright admitted he’s the pick. Lol

 

[Polar Bear]

New scouching breaks it down pretty good. Laf is better now but potential of what Byfield may be make him arguably a good pick at 1 too. Comparison of Byfied and Laf starts starts at about 15:20.

Im not claiming to be an expert, just think there is a half decent chance Byfield goes 1st.

There is close to a 0% chance he goes 1st. Stop this silly take. Our President freaking said “I hear Alexis is excited that he’s coming to NY.” NO GM would take the risk to pass on Laf at 1 in general.

 

[Samsquanch]

There is close to a 0% chance he goes 1st. Stop this silly take. Our President freaking said “I hear Alexis is excited that he’s coming to NY.” NO GM would take the risk to pass on Laf at 1 in general.

I agree that Laf is pretty much guaranteed to go 1st, you just have to because its to bold not to take him.

But having said that its nothing close to being guaranteed that he ends up being the best player from this draft. Not only does he have to go above and beyond as a winger to impact the game as much as an elite #1 center can. But there are realistically 4 or 5 other players that could potentially emerge as mega stars, to the surprise of no one really.

And as for Byfield, I would say its more likely that he goes #1 than the chance that he slides past #3 - thats just not even a remote possibility.

 

[Polar Bear]

I agree that Laf is pretty much guaranteed to go 1st, you just have to because its to bold not to take him.

But having said that its nothing close to being guaranteed that he ends up being the best player from this draft. Not only does he have to go above and beyond as a winger to impact the game as much as an elite #1 center can. But there are realistically 4 or 5 other players that could emerge as mega stars, to the surprise of no one really.

And as for Byfield, I would say its more likely that he goes #1 than the chance that he slides past #3 - thats just not even a remote possibility.

I agree that it’s not a lock Laf becomes the best player in the draft (though I disagree), that I can’t and won’t argue on.

And yes, the odds Byfield slips past 3 is just about close to zero, as well. Either isn’t happening.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This 2020 draft with the Lafreniere/Byfield debate has me thinking back to the 2010 draft where the big story was Taylor (Hall) or Tyler (Seguin) in what was perceived to be a fairly deep draft. I think critique of Lafreniere's play this past season can be attributed to boredom, as he really accomplished all he could in the QMJHL and likely needed a breather after going hard and dominating at the World Juniors.

It's also evident that Lafreniere is closer to reaching his full potential now, whereas Byfield may take a couple of seasons to reach his, similar to the likes of MacKinnon/Barkov/Draisaitl who took a few seasons to breakthrough. Only 18 more days to go to see where Byfield goes (probably #2).

 

[Ulysses31]

There is close to a 0% chance he goes 1st. Stop this silly take. Our President freaking said “I hear Alexis is excited that he’s coming to NY.” NO GM would take the risk to pass on Laf at 1 in general.

Didnt know that.

As DRW fan primarily didnt know NYR had leaks like that.

 

[majormajor]

This 2020 draft with the Lafreniere/Byfield debate has me thinking back to the 2010 draft where the big story was Taylor (Hall) or Tyler (Seguin) in what was perceived to be a fairly deep draft. I think critique of Lafreniere's play this past season can be attributed to boredom, as he really accomplished all he could in the QMJHL and likely needed a breather after going hard and dominating at the World Juniors.

I buy that story. I still don't like it that a guy would be bored playing hockey. I want guys who have a deeper passion than that.

 

[Polar Bear]

Didnt know that.

As DRW fan primarily didnt know NYR had leaks like that.

Yeah, it was I think a night or two after we won the lottery and JD let it slip on an interview on the MSG Network.

The only way Laf doesn’t end up with us is if some team just makes an absolutely stupid offer that would be too dumb to turn down, the odds of which are likely close to 0, as well.

 

[simonedvinsson]

I find it interesting that while we have some posters arguing Byfield over Lafreniere and others arguing Stützle over Byfield, nobody is arguing Stützle over Lafreniere. Because argue all you want, it’s all bonkers, and we all know the draft is going Lafreniere - Byfield - Stützle.

 

[Anguyen92]

^^ That's a funny thing and this thought comes to my head sometimes about this. I know it's never happening ever ever ever, but let's say in a hypothetical sense (only hypothetical and that this scenario never happens at all). Say if the Rangers' GM decides to drink the metaphorical brain bleach the day of the draft and thought in the heat of moment against all logic, he decides to draft Stutzle. What the heck does the Kings do? They still go with Byfield or got to nab Lafreniere here and there?

 

[Hoquei]

Regardless of who you think will become the best player in the draft, the chance that Lafreniere will not be the first player chosen on October 6th is close to zero. He would have to get involved in a drug scandal or assault a woman to lose his current First Overall status.

Don't get me wrong there is no problem in thinking that Byfield or Stutzle has the potential to become the best player in the Draft, after all the two are high-level prospects and First Pick does not always end up becoming the best player (2017, 2014, 2012, 2011) ... But at the end of the day that Draft was not considered a Hall-Seguin or Hischier-Patrick situation. Lafreniere is considered the consensual first pick of this draft since 2017/18 and has never been close to losing this position ... He is the BPA of this draft and would be drafted in the First Pick by probably any NHL team, regardless of the need position that this team has to fill in their roster, like Rangers himself, who needs a C much more than an LW that has Panarin / Kreider, but will still opt for Lafreniere without having to think too much.

Basically, feel free to think that other prospects have a higher ceilling and potential to be the best player in the class, but don't be foolish to escape the general consensus that on October 6th the first name to be called was already defined at a long time and will not change regardless of your personal views of the players in this Draft.

 

[Nabrules]

I find it interesting that while we have some posters arguing Byfield over Lafreniere and others arguing Stützle over Byfield, nobody is arguing Stützle over Lafreniere. Because argue all you want, it’s all bonkers, and we all know the draft is going Lafreniere - Byfield - Stützle.

2020 is a very strange draft. One one hand I personally think it was be an poor choice if LA chose Stutzle over Byfield yet I also feel if someone told me in 10 years Stutzle is the best player from this draft I’d be like not a shocker.

 

[DollardStLaurent]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. I think that the Rangers would be foolish not to select Byfield. They are weak down the middle and don’t seem to have anyone in their system to fill the void. Byfield would fill a huge need.
Nothing against Lafreniere, who right now is better than Byfield, but don’t forget Byfield is 10 months younger and, at their age, it’s a difference maker. Byfield will most probably need another year in the CHL, but that’s OK. He’ll be worth the wait.

 

[NyQuil]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. I think that the Rangers would be foolish not to select Byfield. They are weak down the middle and don’t seem to have anyone in their system to fill the void. Byfield would fill a huge need.

Nothing against Lafreniere, who right now is better than Byfield, but don’t forget Byfield is 10 months younger and, at their age, it’s a difference maker. Byfield will most probably need another year in the CHL, but that’s OK. He’ll be worth the wait.

Drafting for need has always been seen as a bit risky compared with the BPA approach.

 

[Daneurism]

No his worries are a lot of his goals came in transition and 2 on 1s from him being faster that don't happen as much in the nhl unless your name is mcdavid.

Byfield's gets incredible separation with his powerful first few steps. Don't worry, that'll play in the NHL

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Drafting for need has always been seen as a bit risky compared with the BPA approach.

A bit?

 

[Daneurism]

Questioning Byfield having pace of play problems at the NHL level. My jaw is on the floor. The most gifted skating physical specimen since Eric Lindros with possible pace of play problems, got it. Fantastic sturdy edge work, incredible acceleration on first few steps, very good top end speed...Pace of play problems.

 

[jc17]

I can't rationalize byfield over laf.

There's no question marks with lafrenniere. There's no "maybe if he was born _____, maybe if he was on a better team, maybe if he reaches ceiling " . Byfield could be the better player down the road, who knows, but when a prospect has proven as much as lafrenniere has, you take him.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

This 2020 draft with the Lafreniere/Byfield debate has me thinking back to the 2010 draft where the big story was Taylor (Hall) or Tyler (Seguin) in what was perceived to be a fairly deep draft. I think critique of Lafreniere's play this past season can be attributed to boredom, as he really accomplished all he could in the QMJHL and likely needed a breather after going hard and dominating at the World Juniors.

It's also evident that Lafreniere is closer to reaching his full potential now, whereas Byfield may take a couple of seasons to reach his, similar to the likes of MacKinnon/Barkov/Draisaitl who took a few seasons to breakthrough. Only 18 more days to go to see where Byfield goes (probably #2).

Since when is there any debate as to who is going #1?