C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) III

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JawandaPuck

Lost Art of Dynasty
Apr 10, 2007
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Center LHS | 6'2" 194 lbs
Born: 17-SEP-1997, Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Stats: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=199898

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Previous thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1936767
 

chis

Registered User
Mar 24, 2015
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1
Well, when you have the best in the world in that age class in a tournament, it kinda beats a local playoff. Jesus.

And Matthews is not playing in CHL playoffs or memorial cup, he is playing in a mens league in Europe. A mens league that is not at all comparable to the level of the mens league Laine/Puljujarvi play in.

So my question still stands. Where has he showed he should be ahead of those guys? Not in the same tournament (both outplayed him), and the league he plays in is way worse than the other two play in.

What exactly is the criteria that puts him ahead of the others?

That's literally quite a bold statement. Get it? Bold! :clap:

Anyway, it's hard to compare these leagues because of a lack of data. However, some teams play each other from time to time. Quite recently: https://www.championshockeyleague.net/page/gamecenter/IHM40019126/
 

thomast

Registered User
Oct 23, 2009
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That's literally quite a bold statement. Get it? Bold! :clap:

Anyway, it's hard to compare these leagues because of a lack of data. However, some teams play each other from time to time. Quite recently: https://www.championshockeyleague.net/page/gamecenter/IHM40019126/

You're posting 1 single game result here? Really?

https://www.championshockeyleague.net/page/standings/132/

2 of 6 NLA teams made it to playoffs.

7 of 8 Liiga team made it to playoffs.

NLA top teams are just good as Liiga teams for sure but the league doesen't have depth that Liiga posesses. Not even close. Also NLA have more star players in their league but depth players bottom 9 is by far worse because your depth player in Finland beats Swiss player by far. Swiss team bottom 6 or at some cases bottom 9 is finnish tier 2 league level if even that. I've been living in Geneva being exchange student and Finland. Watched alot of hockey and i have to say that there is no even shadow of doubt that i would consider NLA being same calibre of league. But still nothing to take from Auston Matthews it is still a very good league and hard league for 18 year old. Outplaying ex NHL players and good players in that league. While i agree that NLA is easier league to score but he has best performance out of top 3 draftees from europe IMO.

I'm just worried about his lack of compete level at tough games. I've seen him several times at tough games and he have not played with fire in his game. I would critisize him for that. That's really bad quality for maybe top player of the draft. He is still favourite to go #1 but that i'm not so sure about him ending up best player of this draft especially when 2 Fins are younger and has catched him up big time. They are closer and closer. Imagine if they was same age? 8 months of developement. I think this is far closer than most of posters think. I agree that Matthews is favourite to go #1 and most likely does but i think it's really hard to predict who gonna end up best player of all 3 if you consider age etc.
 
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holyprime

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Oct 5, 2010
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Swiss team bottom 6 or at some cases bottom 9 is finnish tier 2 league level if even that.
No, 5th tier or smth :help:

Guys we get it, you are proud of the Liiga. But the leagues are more or less equal, with a slight edge for the finnish maybe. At least equal enough so we can compare the prospects face by face (or rather play by play).

And until now, Matthews has done everything he had to stay as the favourite for #1, a not outstanding WJC won't change that. Doesnt mean one of the wingers can take it from him with a great second half, just that they aren't there (yet).
 

thomast

Registered User
Oct 23, 2009
3,794
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No, 5th tier or smth :help:

Guys we get it, you are proud of the Liiga. But the leagues are more or less equal, with a slight edge for the finnish maybe. At least equal enough so we can compare the prospects face by face (or rather play by play).

And until now, Matthews has done everything he had to stay as the favourite for #1, a not outstanding WJC won't change that. Doesnt mean one of the wingers can take it from him with a great second half, just that they aren't there (yet).

Can you really argue against my points? Finnish tier 2 league is not beer league. It's 2nd best league in Finland. Swiss average depth player isn't Liiga level of player. That's a fact. If you're willing to debate do it. Post facts how NLA league is equal or close of being equal? Because players get paid more? There is more star players? The depth isn't close to SHL or Liiga. There is biggest difference. Your typical swiss player isn't Liiga calibre of player.
 

BusQuets

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
11,944
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No, 5th tier or smth :help:

Guys we get it, you are proud of the Liiga. But the leagues are more or less equal, with a slight edge for the finnish maybe. At least equal enough so we can compare the prospects face by face (or rather play by play).

And until now, Matthews has done everything he had to stay as the favourite for #1, a not outstanding WJC won't change that. Doesnt mean one of the wingers can take it from him with a great second half, just that they aren't there (yet).

No, no they aren't.
 

holyprime

Registered User
Oct 5, 2010
487
59
Can you really argue against my points? Finnish tier 2 league is not beer league. It's 2nd best league in Finland. Swiss average depth player isn't Liiga level of player. That's a fact. If you're willing to debate do it. Post facts how NLA league is equal or close of being equal? Because players get paid more? There is more star players? The depth isn't close to SHL or Liiga. There is biggest difference. Your typical swiss player isn't Liiga calibre of player.
Facts? How did you measure/compare the depth players of the NLA to those from Liiga? The NLB btw also isnt a beer league, some of the teams there have a higher average attendance than most Liiga teams.

Yes, Hockey is more popular in Finland (as a sport, not in specators) and in general they have the better players. However, the NLA has grown a lot over the last 15+ years where it was more on the level of the DEL, and not just in competitiveness, but also on player development etc. The imports (bc of the limit) also raise the level of play and wash the lesser depth guys out of the league.

It would be different if every other finnish player that comes here would lead the league or their teams, but that's just not the case. There are also various examples of good NLA players being good in Sweden (i can't remember someone who went to Finland).

As i said, the Liiga might be slightly better but not to a point you can't compare players anymore. The "style" of play makes a bigger difference than the level of depth: Matthews would mabye have less points, but would be as successfull in SM-Liiga as in the NLA.
 
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thomast

Registered User
Oct 23, 2009
3,794
702
Facts? How did you measure/compare the depth players of the NLA to those from Liiga? The NLB btw also isnt a beer league, some of the teams there have a higher average attendance than most Liiga teams.

Yes, Hockey is more popular in Finland (as a sport, not in specators) and in general they have the better players. However, the NLA has grown a lot over the last 15+ years where it was more on the level of the DEL, and not just in competitiveness, but also on player development etc. The imports (bc of the limit) also raise the level of play and wash the lesser depth guys out of the league.

It would be different if every other finnish player that comes here would lead the league or their teams, but that's just not the case. There are also various examples of good NLA players being good in Sweden (i can't remember someone who went to Finland).

As i said, the Liiga might be slightly better but not to a point you can't compare players anymore. The "style" of play makes a bigger difference than the level of depth: Matthews would mabye have less points, but would be as successfull in SM-Liiga as in the NLA.

Watched them play against in CHL. They got runned over by depth of SHL and Liiga teams excluding couple of NLA top teams. Have you ever seen average depth players from NLA jumping to SHL, Liiga or even KHL at some cases? Yeah, NLA has developed big time no doubt about it. But when we watch the most important thing is player developement. Yes, Swiss junior player developement can produce top talents. But is it really close of being close with Finnish junior player developement? Alot of Finnish U20 and U18 national team players are going to be just average depth players in Liiga or Finnish tier 2 league players. They are still far ahead swiss national junior teams. Junior player developement is the foundation of producing players to the european leagues. Because about 70-80 precent of the european league players is from the junior player developement system.

I'm not saying that Swiss junior player developement is bad because it is not. It's not world class like Finnish system though.

Like i said in previous post Matthews playing in worse league doesen't change the fact that he has outproduced ex NHLers and IMO he have been most impressive player so far from european leagues. But i don't agree that NLA is equal to Liiga or even being close. It's tier below to me.
 

holyprime

Registered User
Oct 5, 2010
487
59
Watched them play against in CHL. They got runned over by depth of SHL and Liiga teams excluding couple of NLA top teams. Have you ever seen average depth players from NLA jumping to SHL, Liiga or even KHL at some cases?
Well we could also dig out some previous years where NLA teams won the whole thing (with KHL teams even). It can give you pointers but not the whole picture (Madrid and Barcelona are very successfull in the CL, doesn't tell you much about the depth of a very top heavy league compared to others either).

The same applies the other way as well, if Davos wins the CHL this year it won't make the NLA instantly the best european league outside the KHL either.

And no, depth players dont jump to SHL or Liiga (i don't think any swiss played in the KHL). They also dont come to the NLA either, that would be really stupid with the import rules.

But is it really close of being close with Finnish junior player developement?
Of course not (hockey as a sport is much more popular in Finland), but getting closer, alltough we have a lot to catch up still.

Alot of Finnish U20 and U18 national team players are going to be just average depth players in Liiga or Finnish tier 2 league players. They are still far ahead swiss national junior teams. Junior player developement is the foundation of producing players to the european leagues. Because about 70-80 precent of the european league players is from the junior player developement system.
And what makes you think thats different in the NLA? The difference is that your top guys most likely will play in the NHL, whereas ours (outside a few) have more of an outside shot if everything goes well.

Also, we "steal" some of your better euro players, and that obviously helps the depth of the NLA along as well.

Like i said in previous post Matthews playing in worse league doesen't change the fact that he has outproduced ex NHLers and IMO he have been most impressive player so far from european leagues. But i don't agree that NLA is equal to Liiga or even being close. It's tier below to me.
Its close enough to not use hyperboles. The gap certainly isnt like what it is to the DEL or a similar league. Anyway we are both fans, so we can probably argue about this forever, so lets just agree that its close enough that we can actually compare the 3 top prospects to each other.
 

VictorLustig

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
8,852
2,899
Matthews is a monster against Sweden right now. No player can match him in this tournament.
 

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
4,280
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Where were Laine and Puljujärvi against Sweden yesterday?

They defended, won battles and worked their arses off. For the win. And I have to raise hat for both of the guys for not trying to break off from the system but instead playing their parts in it, eventhough it costed them points.
 

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
4,280
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He could've had 7 points today. Puljujarvi and Laine who get a lot of hype these days are not really close to him. Matthews is superior in almost every area.

Granted, I didn't bother to tune in for today's game. Yet however, I have watched his international games, in the tournament as well as in Placid. He has an edge in complete game at the moment but not by much. Something you'd expect from a player that is 8 months older perhaps. Claiming he would be somewhat inferior due to being outscored in the WJC is an argument for the stat stalkers so no point going there. However Laine is offensive more gifted and both of them have higher potential. Then again Matthews is a saver bet to achieve a higher ceiling.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,810
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Kind of Surprised in a blow out USA win. Matthews went pointless today. Still a great prospect. But yep, I am surprised.
 

Hockey Spy

Registered User
Aug 3, 2011
226
1
www.hockeyspy.ca
He sure looks good out there, but.....

Auston Matthews: Games vrs. weak teams (Swiss, Denmark, Czech) 9 points.

Games vrs strong teams (Canada, Sweden , Russia, Sweden again) 2 points.
 
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