Byram vs Dahlin

[La Cosa Nostra]

Dahlin had 2 full complete 40+ point seasons before he turned 20. The only other guy to do it was some guy named Phil Housley. Byram has 32 games of experience, turns 21 in literally 6 months but yet is pretty much 50-50 with the guy who did something that hadn't been done in over 30+ years as an 18 year old rookie....never change HF

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Dahlin had 2 full complete 40+ point seasons before he turned 20. The only other guy to do it was some guy named Phil Housley. Byram has 32 games of experience, turns 21 in literally 6 months but yet is pretty much 50-50 with the guy who did something that hadn't been done in over 30+ years as an 18 year old rookie....never change HF

Some people prefer players who don't specialize in getting secondary assists on the power play.. sorry?

 

[rangersfansince08]

Dahlin is the second highest scoring teenage defenseman of all time and I am fully convinced that he is a more talented hockey player than Makar. Dahlin is more creative, a way better passer and a better defender. His percieved struggles last season are almost 100% on Krueger and the Buffalo situation. I do think Dahlin would score just as much as Makar on Colorado, today.

No he isn't. Fox and Miro are better than Dahlin too.

 

[AB13]

No he isn't. Fox and Miro are better than Dahlin too.

Heiskanen is absolutely not better than Dahlin, obviously not with the puck but I would say not even defensively. Dahlin is one of the best play drivers in the world.

 

[tucker3434]

Dahlin had 2 full complete 40+ point seasons before he turned 20. The only other guy to do it was some guy named Phil Housley. Byram has 32 games of experience, turns 21 in literally 6 months but yet is pretty much 50-50 with the guy who did something that hadn't been done in over 30+ years as an 18 year old rookie....never change HF

Being really great for an 18 year old is awesome when you're 18. Not as much when you're 21. And that's really the issue with Dahlin. He hasn't taken that next step yet.

 

[Buck Naked]

Heiskanen is absolutely not better than Dahlin, obviously not with the puck but I would say not even defensively. Dahlin is one of the best play drivers in the world.

Wait, what just happened here? Could you even keep a straight face while typing it?

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Being really great for an 18 year old is awesome when you're 18. Not as much when you're 21. And that's really the issue with Dahlin. He hasn't taken that next step yet.

Yes, 50+ points pace with literally NO help at 21 is not the " next step ".

The funny thing is if Dahlin didn't break generational accomplishments as a teenager and was just emerging this year at age 21 and playing at his 50+ point pace HF wannabe scouts on here would be fawning.

HF is literally the last place anyone would want to take hockey "knowledge/info" from aside from Twitter threads, Facebook comments, Readit sub forums and youtube comments. It has those beat at least....for now.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Heiskanen is absolutely not better than Dahlin, obviously not with the puck but I would say not even defensively. Dahlin is one of the best play drivers in the world.

At what point do moderators consider this level of homerism equivalent to trolling?

 

[tucker3434]

Yes, 50+ points pace with literally NO help at 21 is not the " next step ".

The funny thing is if Dahlin didn't break generational accomplishments as a teenager and was just emerging this year at age 21 and playing at his 50+ point pace HF wannabe scouts on here would be fawning.

HF is literally the last place anyone would want to take hockey "knowledge/info" from aside from Twitter threads, Facebook comments, Readit sub forums and youtube comments. It has those beat at least....for now.

It’s not. If guys like Makar and Fox didn’t exist to show us what the next step looked like, you might be able to fool us into believing it’s some insane accomplishment. But they do exist and we do know better.

And if you guys didn’t rush to use the term “generational” every time his name is mentioned, he wouldn’t catch the hell here that he does. He can be both a very good young player and still somewhat underwhelming based on the hype.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

At what point do moderators consider this level of homerism equivalent to trolling?

There is like three posters on this board that just can't accept that Dahlin isn't at the level of Makar, Heiskanen, Fox, etc.

They will post some of the dumbest stuff you will ever read.

 

[AB13]

There is like three posters on this board that just can't accept that Dahlin isn't at the level of Makar, Heiskanen, Fox, etc.

They will post some of the dumbest stuff you will ever read.

I'm sorry but there is no basis to put Heiskanen in the same conversation as Fox and Makar (or Dahlin but we have discussed that already). Heiskanen has a career high of 35 points and averages 0.49 points per game in the NHL, compared to 0.97 for Makar and 0.77 for Fox. Heiskanen also can't defend against power forward type players at all and generally struggles more in his own zone than Fox and Makar (despite being a good transition defender). There is no way Heiskanen even belongs in the discussion with those players. Is there any reasonable argument for that?

Heiskanen is better off being compared to someone like Samuel Girard.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Yes, 50+ points pace with literally NO help at 21 is not the " next step ".

The funny thing is if Dahlin didn't break generational accomplishments as a teenager and was just emerging this year at age 21 and playing at his 50+ point pace HF wannabe scouts on here would be fawning.

HF is literally the last place anyone would want to take hockey "knowledge/info" from aside from Twitter threads, Facebook comments, Readit sub forums and youtube comments. It has those beat at least....for now.

Why does he need help? You said he drives play. Pts are nice but what about the defensive lapses?

 

[2 others]

Byram by a landslide. Dahlin is more like a poor man's Girard.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Dahlin not particularly close.


Once Buffalo gets its shit together here in the next couple years, Dahlin will make a lot of people silly for suggesting he wont be right up alongside Fox/Makar as the very best of this next generation of Dmen.

 

[rangersfansince08]

It’s not. If guys like Makar and Fox didn’t exist to show us what the next step looked like, you might be able to fool us into believing it’s some insane accomplishment. But they do exist and we do know better.

And if you guys didn’t rush to use the term “generational” every time his name is mentioned, he wouldn’t catch the hell here that he does. He can be both a very good young player and still somewhat underwhelming based on the hype.

Right. Fox and Makar are probably already what Dahlin hopes to be. Not to mention Miro and McAvoy are up there too. And imo Seider is as well. And Josi/Hedman are still around along with Ekblad living up to where he was drafted. Right now Dahlin is probably getting outplayed by Byram, Toews, Hughes and Weager.

Even if Dahlin takes two steps forward he won't be generational. His ceiling was never Orr or even Lidstrom. Generational is a stupid label. But it gets thrown around so much. My definition is if you aren't outproducing 99% of your competition by at least 25% you are not generational. No defenseman playing right now is generational since I don't see guys like Makar, Fox, Hedman ever being 25% + better than each other. And Dahlin sure at hell isn't ever going to be that much better than Fox or Makar if he even gets close.

 

[nickdawg95]

hey, it took hedman a while to get it together like 5 seasons, I still have faith in dahlin people forget that he came in the league as an 18 year old.

he has a lot of time to learn and grow.

 

[Buck Naked]

hey, it took hedman a while to get it together like 5 seasons, I still have faith in dahlin people forget that he came in the league as an 18 year old.

he has a lot of time to learn and grow.

It took Hedman five seasons to become a Norris level defenceman, yes. It didn't take him five seasons to learn how to defend.

 

[nickdawg95]

It took Hedman five seasons to become a Norris level defenceman, yes. It didn't take him five seasons to learn how to defend.

it took him 9 seasons to win a norris. Also hedman was catching a lot of flack in his early year IIRC

 

[Buck Naked]

it took him 9 seasons to win a norris. Also hedman was catching a lot of flack in his early year IIRC

He did. Yet he wasn't as bad as Dahlin currently is. He, for example, scored at a higher rate 5v5 during his first four seasons combined than Dahlin's done so far. All while being a lot better at defense. So if Hedman could catch some flack.. Imagine Dahlin!

 

[nickdawg95]

He did. Yet he wasn't as bad as Dahlin currently is. He, for example, scored at a higher rate 5v5 during his first four seasons combined than Dahlin's done so far. All while being a lot better at defense. So if Hedman could catch some flack.. Imagine Dahlin!

Dahlin's the highest scoring teenage d-man ever.

quit hating on the kid he's 21

 

[Buck Naked]

Dahlin's the highest scoring teenage d-man ever.

quit hating on the kid he's 21

Yeah, he's a great PPQB. Or at least he was.. Now he's rocking the 3rd worst xGF% in the league on the PP among players with over 60 minutes of PP time. 68% with more players on the ice than the other team.. Worst GF% as well. Not good.

No one is hating. Just pointing out the truth. I still believe in some of his potential though and I'm sure he will turn into a great top pairing guy eventually.

 

[nickdawg95]

Yeah, he's a great PPQB. Or at least he was.. Now he's rocking the 3rd worst xGF% in the league on the PP among players with over 60 minutes of PP time. 68% with more players on the ice than the other team.. Worst GF% as well. Not good.

No one is hating. Just pointing out the truth. I still believe in some of his potential though and I'm sure he will turn into a great top pairing guy eventually.

ahhh you mad

 

[member 334057]

It's amazing to me the number of times we see threads or polls regarding Dahlin as if he's become some sort of measuring stick for other fanbases to feel good about their own prospects because right now Byram is still only that, a prospect. Nearly every one of these threads then devolves into either trashing Dahlin, trashing the Sabres or trashing Sabres fans. I'd like to point out a few things to Avs fans.

1. Sabres fans did not label Dahlin as generational, that label was given to him before he was even drafted by scouts and supposed experts. Though some Sabres fans do continue to cling to that.
2. Byram has played a whole 32 games thus far, and only 13 this season in which he has looked good on the highest scoring team in the league (going by goals per game).
3. Byram is surrounded by considerably better talent than Dahlin is. The Avs top 6 would be better than pretty much any Sabres forward.
4. Dahlin is being utilized as the #1 defenseman and is clearly not completely ready for that role. Along with that he has been paired with one of the worst defenseman on the team for a decent portion of those games (Butcher).
5. He has played most of those games in front of AHL level goaltending, so when he makes a mistake it usually results in a high danger chance or a goal.

All that said, yes he needs to improve defensively, and yes he needs to improve on his decision making. However i would bet if you reverse their roles and put Dahlin in Byrams place and Byram in Dahlins place this would be a landslide for Dahlin.

 

[Panthaz89]

Some people prefer players who don't specialize in getting secondary assists on the power play.. sorry?

Dahlin only has 6 PP points on the season and 5 of them are assists of his 16 points so clearly he's not simply collecting "secondary assists on the power play. Pretty sure just from memory only 1 or 2 of those are even secondary. Heiskanen has the same amount of PP assists this season is he collecting garbage points as you would like to call them too?

 

[Panthaz89]

Right. Fox and Makar are probably already what Dahlin hopes to be. Not to mention Miro and McAvoy are up there too. And imo Seider is as well. And Josi/Hedman are still around along with Ekblad living up to where he was drafted. Right now Dahlin is probably getting outplayed by Byram, Toews, Hughes and Weager.

Even if Dahlin takes two steps forward he won't be generational. His ceiling was never Orr or even Lidstrom. Generational is a stupid label. But it gets thrown around so much. My definition is if you aren't outproducing 99% of your competition by at least 25% you are not generational. No defenseman playing right now is generational since I don't see guys like Makar, Fox, Hedman ever being 25% + better than each other. And Dahlin sure at hell isn't ever going to be that much better than Fox or Makar if he even gets close.

If Dahlin takes 2 steps forward he's probably be putting up PPG with ease considering his current production which none of these D-man have even finished with an PPG season(with at least 60 games) yet so no your delusional.