Speculation: Buyout Candidates (per Pro Hockey Talk)

[indigobuffalo]

Let's add Karl Alzner, 29 but plays like he's 39
View attachment 124301

Attach an image of Anne Robinson for the trifecta.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Told everybody last year this guy sucks, it would be a ****ty contract and the Caps would probably still replace with someone better than him, because he's ****in terrible.

I can't believe GM's still give this kind of a defenseman big money and long term contract. I can't believe there's even this many of them even still under contract to NHL teams.


Probably not.

Pierre McGuire told me he ''Wins you hockey games'' so probably not.

You talk to Pierre?

 

[Bleedred]

You talk to Pierre?

Haha it was something Pierre said on one of the broadcasts on NBSCN during either the Boston series or the ECF in regards to Chris Kunitz and Ryan Callahan. Something like

“These guys aren’t even good when it comes to analytics, which is one of my problems with those stats, but these guys win you games!”. And I laughed pretty hard.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Some candidates for consideration: Ennis, Greiss, Hutton, Schlemko

Please tell me you don't mean Ben Hutton LMFAO!!!

 

[txpd]

I can't believe GM's still give this kind of a defenseman big money and long term contract. I can't believe there's even this many of them even still under contract to NHL teams.

The Caps just won a championship with one of those defensemen playing a major role. So....

 

[Volica]

Seeing Troy Brouwer on there and his stats makes me glad the Blues didn't resign him. The Blues would been suck with him and he be looked at as dead weight too. Jay Boumeester would been on this list if he didn't have surgery, before he went down he it was being talked.

Really wished Calgary stayed away too. But they didn’t.
I doubt he gets bought out this season because that cap penalty would hurt for 4 years on our end. That being said, he has been among the worst forwards this team has had over the past 2 seasons. That’s saying a lot, because we’ve brought in some absolute dogs.

 

[tucker3434]

The penguins gave Matt Hunwick a 3 year deal? Totally missed that one, but yeah, that never had a chance of working out.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Some candidates for consideration: Ennis, Greiss, Hutton, Schlemko

The Canucks have about 25 million in cap space, we’re not going to buy out a sub 3m contract.

Unless you’re referring to the goalie.

 

[Alex Mills]

The Canucks have about 25 million in cap space, we’re not going to buy out a sub 3m contract.

Unless you’re referring to the goalie.

Hutton’s play has taken a nosedive over the last year and a half. In his last 77 games dating back to March 2017, he’s -18 with just seven points and only three of those at even strength. He didn’t record a single point in the 2018 calendar year, was scratched for almost half of their games over that stretch, and when he did play his minutes and role were both reduced. He took 103 shots without scoring a goal last season, the second worst futility rate in the league (Nick Jensen), and he’s only scored once since December 2016. He was praised in the media early last year for leading the team in power play shot attempts per 60, but he eventually fell to their last option to quarterback based on his lack of production.

The Canucks do have a ton of cap space to work with this summer, but just because a team has money to burn doesn’t mean it makes sense to set it on fire. By the end of last season, Hutton wasn’t even in their regular top six with Gudbranson and Tanev out. Sautner looked better in five games than Hutton looked in five months, and $2.8 million is a lot to pay a healthy scratch whose potential is now in question. After hiring an offseason trainer and a skating coach following a conference call with management in April, it’s pretty obvious he knows his job is on the line:

Ben Hutton - Vancouver Canucks - 2018 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

They may very well give him another chance to turn things around, but based on his age (under 26) and sudden regression, it might be viewed as more cost effective to buy out the final year of his contract ($800k spread out over two years plus $400k bonus due July 1, which is only 1/3 of the remaining contract value rather than 2/3 for players 26 and over) rather than to bury him in the minors ($1.775 million) or sign him to an extension he hasn’t earned when there are better options out there this offseason and next.

They haven’t made the playoffs in three years and haven’t won a playoff round since their Cup run seven years ago, and if there’s growing pressure for progress, a buyout would clear a roster spot at a reduced cost and give them an additional $2 million ($2.8 million cap hit to keep vs. $800k to cut) to make upgrades now. Maybe not popular but possible.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

It’s june 15 or 48 hrs after cup finals....which ever is later.

So June 15th

 

[MasterMatt25]

Burrows and Gaborik

 

[Mike Jones]

So June 15th

Looks like it. I thought the operative word was "earlier" instead of "later" so that's what was messing me up.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Hutton’s play has taken a nosedive over the last year and a half. In his last 77 games dating back to March 2017, he’s -18 with just seven points and only three of those at even strength. He didn’t record a single point in the 2018 calendar year, was scratched for almost half of their games over that stretch, and when he did play his minutes and role were both reduced. He took 103 shots without scoring a goal last season, the second worst futility rate in the league (Nick Jensen), and he’s only scored once since December 2016. He was praised in the media early last year for leading the team in power play shot attempts per 60, but he eventually fell to their last option to quarterback based on his lack of production.

The Canucks do have a ton of cap space to work with this summer, but just because a team has money to burn doesn’t mean it makes sense to set it on fire. By the end of last season, Hutton wasn’t even in their regular top six with Gudbranson and Tanev out. Sautner looked better in five games than Hutton looked in five months, and $2.8 million is a lot to pay a healthy scratch whose potential is now in question. After hiring an offseason trainer and a skating coach following a conference call with management in April, it’s pretty obvious he knows his job is on the line:

Ben Hutton - Vancouver Canucks - 2018 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

They may very well give him another chance to turn things around, but based on his age (under 26) and sudden regression, it might be viewed as more cost effective to buy out the final year of his contract ($800k spread out over two years plus $400k bonus due July 1, which is only 1/3 of the remaining contract value rather than 2/3 for players 26 and over) rather than to bury him in the minors ($1.775 million) or sign him to an extension he hasn’t earned when there are better options out there this offseason and next.

They haven’t made the playoffs in three years and haven’t won a playoff round since their Cup run seven years ago, and if there’s growing pressure for progress, a buyout would clear a roster spot at a reduced cost and give them an additional $2 million ($2.8 million cap hit to keep vs. $800k to cut) to make upgrades now. Maybe not popular but possible.

They’re rebuilding, they’ve said they’re rebuilding so the the last paragraph has no merit. They’ve publicly stated that they would take on bad cap for assets, that’s how aware of the rebuild they are.

We need warm bodies, they won’t be buying anyone out.

 

[Alex Mills]

They’re rebuilding, they’ve said they’re rebuilding so the the last paragraph has no merit. They’ve publicly stated that they would take on bad cap for assets, that’s how aware of the rebuild they are.

We need warm bodies, they won’t be buying anyone out.

If they've publicly stated they're willing to take on bad contracts for assets, feel free to share links.

Benning did an interview with Sportsnet back in February after he was extended and said, "We are going to keep trying hard to be competitive in the games as we’re bringing in these kids and developing them. Our bottom line is to win games and be competitive to make the playoffs."

The article also mentions mixed messages about the rebuild. Time will tell:

Canucks sign GM Jim Benning to contract extension - Sportsnet.ca

 

[thepuckmonster]

If they've publicly stated they're willing to take on bad contracts for assets, feel free to share links.

Benning did an interview with Sportsnet back in February after he was extended and said, "We are going to keep trying hard to be competitive in the games as we’re bringing in these kids and developing them. Our bottom line is to win games and be competitive to make the playoffs."

The article also mentions mixed messages about the rebuild. Time will tell:

Canucks sign GM Jim Benning to contract extension - Sportsnet.ca

Literally every single team before the deadline will say they’re goal is to make the playoffs unless they’re historically bad. This was also right before the Sedins retired. To stay on topic, Hutton’s crap season was due to some really tragic off season training and management has never indicated that they want to move on, regardless of his scratches (we also scratched Boeser at the beginning of the season, so take that as you will).

There’s plenty of discussion about the quotes in various trade board threads + on the Canucks board. I’m on mobile but will find them later when I have my laptop.

 

[Bleedred]

The Caps just won a championship with one of those defensemen playing a major role. So....

Because they're the first team to win the cup to have one of those defensemen playing a major role? Because obviously it's impossible to win the cup with a couple bad players on your roster, right? So....

By the way, he only averaged 16:49 this playoffs. He averaged fewer last year, but they also had shitty Karl Alzner playing a lot of minutes and I don't think they had another defenseman as bad as Alzner dressed for this playoffs. Having real anchors like Alzner and Orpik back there really had a significant amount to do with why they couldn't get out of their own way in past years.

 

[greengoblin]

I have been told that Troy Brouwer will be bought out by the Flames...

 

[Just Linda]

Some candidates for consideration: Ennis, Greiss, Hutton, Schlemko

Schlemko - Buyout for 4 years at 600k
Sending him to the minors would cost the habs 2 years at under 1.1m
So it would cost more to buy him out than it would to send him to Laval (if he cleared waivers)
Not that it would be wise, Schlemko was injured last year and likely will rebound to be servicable this year. Montreal has a ton of cap room too, why put the burden into the future when you can bear it now? The rule of thumb for buyouts is that its only effective if you can replace him with someone with the money you save, good luck finding someone as good as the money you'd save, so 1.5 million.

Hutton is on the last year of his contract, Van has loads of cap room and is rebuilding. If he gets sent down it only costs their team 1.8m this year if he clears waivers, why bother buying him out.

Greiss... maybe, I'd see what Tavares does first. If they find themselves against the cap ceiling, I'd wait til then and then decide whether to buy him out. Burying him would mean he is 2m against the cap for 2 years whereas buying him out is 1.3 against the cap for 4 years, again the savings over 2 years is 700k roughly but costs so much more down the road

Ennis somewhat makes sense but again, could you find a player that plays his role on the team for 2.4m or less? Seems wiser to just let his contract expire or send him down.

 

[Alex Mills]

Schlemko - Buyout for 4 years at 600k
Sending him to the minors would cost the habs 2 years at under 1.1m
So it would cost more to buy him out than it would to send him to Laval (if he cleared waivers)
Not that it would be wise, Schlemko was injured last year and likely will rebound to be servicable this year. Montreal has a ton of cap room too, why put the burden into the future when you can bear it now? The rule of thumb for buyouts is that its only effective if you can replace him with someone with the money you save, good luck finding someone as good as the money you'd save, so 1.5 million.

Hutton is on the last year of his contract, Van has loads of cap room and is rebuilding. If he gets sent down it only costs their team 1.8m this year if he clears waivers, why bother buying him out.

Greiss... maybe, I'd see what Tavares does first. If they find themselves against the cap ceiling, I'd wait til then and then decide whether to buy him out. Burying him would mean he is 2m against the cap for 2 years whereas buying him out is 1.3 against the cap for 4 years, again the savings over 2 years is 700k roughly but costs so much more down the road

Ennis somewhat makes sense but again, could you find a player that plays his role on the team for 2.4m or less? Seems wiser to just let his contract expire or send him down.

Agree to disagree on buyout philosophy. There is no general rule of thumb, every team and player situation is different. There are plenty of reasons for buyouts: short term or long term cap impact, player regression or underperformance, injury history, limited trade options, failed experiment, coaching system or team culture misfit, personality clash, payroll anchor, etc. The cheapest option isn’t always the right or best option. If a team thinks they can improve their chances of success or upgrade a position by using a buyout, they’ll usually admit the gaffe or issue, foot the bill and move on.

With Schlemko, per CapFriendly the team would save roughly $883k spread out over 4 years by burying him for the remainder of his deal ($2.1 million cap hit) instead of buying him out ($2.983 million cap hit). That’s a difference of about $220k per year, small potatoes in the grand scheme. Schlemko is borderline top six, has never played a full season, has played for six teams over the past three years and was injured and sent down twice last year. He’s over 30 and on the decline, and there are always some solid bargain free agents available as well as trade possibilities. The Canadiens need to upgrade their blue line and penalty kill, and the Alzner buyout talk seems pretty hasty. If they find a better fit than Schlemko that makes sense during the free agent negotiating window, it could be something they look at:

Capped: Looking Ahead to Potential Buyouts | DobberHockey – Your Fantasy Hockey Source

Hutton has already been discussed here at length. MyNHLTradeRumors also mentioned him as a potential buyout candidate last week, and Green was openly critical of him at the team’s year end presser. He’s also under 26, which drastically reduces their buyout cost. They could give him another chance, but the writing could also be on the wall if things have reached a breaking point and they can’t find a taker, and that could prove challenging given his regression, conditioning, $400k bonus due in July and $2.8 million qualifying offer due next summer.

On Greiss, it has nothing to do with Taveras and everything to do with his play and Lou, who is reportedly already shopping for a goaltender. According to CapFriendly, the team would save about $100k spread out over 4 years by burying him for the remainder of his deal ($4.566 million cap hit) instead of buying him out ($4.667 million cap hit). A difference of about $25k per year, again small potatoes. Greiss was so epically bad last year that he finished with a 3.82 GAA, the worst of any goalie with 25 or more games played in a single season since Sebastien Caron’s 3.98 GAA in 2006. There’s no trade market, and the buyout benefits outweigh the little savings of burying him in the minors for the next two years. It wouldn’t be a shock if Lou sent him packing before the end of the month.

As for Ennis, there’s been plenty of speculation. His cap hit is $4.6 million but his salary drops to $3.65 million this season. The cap hit to bury him if he accepted reassignment would be $3.575 million, and the buyout cap hits would be $3.384 million spread out over two years. Ennis may feel he deserves a shot elsewhere and a trade to a cap floor team is possible, but creating space to re-sign Zucker and Dumba takes precedence.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Hunwick.....remember on July 1st when Hunwick>Hainsey lol

I think the pens are more likely to move him with a pick then buy him out

I also recall Leafs fans calling him a true top pairing defenseman at one point too.