GDT: burly midwestern hockeymen from ohio penetrate small, skillful hockeymens tight d

[Joe McGrath]

Columbus is 8-8 in games decided in regulation.

Carolina is 8-8 in games decided in regulation.

The gap between these two teams is minuscule, and it only really shown itself in OT and shootout where actual hockey stops being played and it turns into a skills competition and who has the better goaltending. Columbus has Bob and some guys that fit in well at 3-3 up front and on D, so they are 8-0-1 in OT. The Canes have two of their best offensive players (Faulk and Skinner) who don’t have the faintest idea how to play 3 on 3 and goalies who aren’t exactly Vezina quality.

That’s how thin the margin is.

 

[dogbazinho]

So how much line shuffling was Peters guilty of? I couldn't watch the game but from reading the thread it seems like our TSA line is being interfered with? Any particular reason?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So how much line shuffling was Peters guilty of? I couldn't watch the game but from reading the thread it seems like our TSA line is being interfered with? Any particular reason?

It seemed to me there was a few series, after Jordan's penalty and the PK where they were broken up for a bit, but they were re-united shortly there-after. I viewed it as just taking a few shifts to get things right after the penalty. I was helping one of my sons during the 3rd period though so wasn't watching it closely so someone else would have to comment if there were changes in the 3rd.

 

[Joe McGrath]

It wasn’t re-shuffling. Penalties messed things up and there was another instance where someone took a long shift or got stuck on the ice for a while and a decent time between whistles so everything was jumbled. I wasn’t listening but Tripp usually points out that they seem to have shuffled lines, “let’s see if they stick with this” when anyone paying any attention, or anyone who’s job it is to pay attention at least, knows they just killed a penalty or that Rask got stuck out for a long shift or whatever.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

yeah, the lines were never actually shuffled

just weird game situations resulted in them being out of whack for a couple shifts

 

[Breakdowns]

You know they are terrible at 3 on 3 too, right?

They are terrible at shootout too, I rather watch real hockey, at least 3 on 3 is exciting!

permanent 3v3vot, goalie cant freeze the puck.

I can behind this idea

 

[Maylo]

So guys, honest question, do you also think that we play like "rabid cockroaches with no system"? Just read this observation. Thanks in advance for opinion if any.

 

[dogbazinho]

OK, thanks for the clarification. I've liked what I've seen with TSA and as long as they keep things up I think we still have a shot at the playoffs.

 

[Unsustainable]

So guys, honest question, do you also think that we play like "rabid cockroaches with no system"? Just read this observation. Thanks in advance for opinion if any.

Y’all have a good team, lots of speed. You’re one of the few teams that creates issues for our backend.

 

[Maylo]

Y’all have a good team, lots of speed. You’re one of the few teams that creates issues for our backend.

This is very polite and very Carolina's way of saying the same thing

 

[GoldiFox]

Seth Jones and Werenski are super studs. Best pair in the NHL for my money.

 

[StormCast]

The goal-scoring problem in a nutshell is that the primary top 3 C's have a combined assist total of 19! Less than one a game. The wings are more skilled than in recent years but there continues to be a crying need for a play making center. Despite his hot streak from the wing, I'd move TT to center in place of Ryan as a start. If Derek Ryan is your 2C, you have problems.

 

[JCLA]

The goal-scoring problem in a nutshell is that the primary top 3 C's have a combined assist total of 19! Less than one a game. The wings are more skilled than in recent years but there continues to be a crying need for a play making center. Despite his hot streak from the wing, I'd move TT to center in place of Ryan as a start. If Derek Ryan is your 2C, you have problems.

I'd be more inclined to move Aho, he seems, to me, the better play maker.

 

[StormCast]

I'd be more inclined to move Aho, he seems, to me, the better play maker.

Yes, I would agree but he's still not ready to play C in my opinion especially down low on defense and on draws. TT I thought was pretty good overall in all 3 zones last year during his stint at C.

 

[tarheelhockey]

3v3 should be treated by the players like (American) Football. The #1 most important thing to winning is the turnover battle. At least 3-4 times the Canes just fumbled or threw away the puck. That is tough to do when a team only gets so many possessions. For me that seems like a coaching issue. Their whole 3v3 strategy seems disorganized.

This was really noticeable last night. The Canes can thank Darling for dragging them to the shootout. They’ll never be good in OT as long as they’re sloppy with the puck and lose the 50/50 battles.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

So guys, honest question, do you also think that we play like "rabid cockroaches with no system"? Just read this observation. Thanks in advance for opinion if any.

You guys gunk up the neutral zone very well. That's structured.

Offensively? Yeah. Two-three guys puck chasing. From our end it's annoyingly effective, but I can see how it grates game after game.

I'd say Torts is the perfect coach for your team.

This was really noticeable last night. The Canes can thank Darling for dragging them to the shootout. They’ll never be good in OT as long as they’re sloppy with the puck and lose the 50/50 battles.

Last night was one of the few OT's of the year the Hurricanes didn't dominate. Generally they do play it like American football, favoring maintaining possession over forcing it.

As noted, part of the problem is their two best offensive guys aren't good 3v3. Skinner tried to walk two guys by himself again, fortunately when that failed Cbus immediately turned it over; Faulk tries to blast one from an odd angle.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is goal scoring really a problem overall right now? PP, for sure, but the Canes are 10th best in the NHL for 5v5 scoring (GF/60) and 17th / 31 teams in overall Goals/GP. While center playmaking is certainly a contributor, to me it's still an overall lack of skill and a couple of players not cutting the mustard right now (Skinner with 1 garbage goal in 8 games, Aho's slow start, Faulk with 1 goal, Rask stinking up the joint. Here is the 82 game goal scoring pace for all the Canes. Guys in RED are the ones (IMO) that are quite a bit lower than we'd expect. Guys in Green are guys that are quite a bit higher than we'd expect.

Jeff Skinner	32
Teuvo Teravainen	29
Jordan Staal	25
Brock McGinn	22
Elias Lindholm	21
Sebastian Aho	18
Derek Ryan	18
Victor Rask	16
Josh Jooris	14
Justin Williams	14
Noah Hanifin	14
Jaccob Slavin	7
Joakim Nordstrom	7
Justin Faulk	4
Brett Pesce	0
Marcus Kruger	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[StormCast]

Is goal scoring really a problem overall right now? PP, for sure, but the Canes are 10th best in the NHL for 5v5 scoring (GF/60) and 17th / 31 teams in overall Goals/GP. While center playmaking is certainly a contributor, to me it's still an overall lack of skill and a couple of players not cutting the mustard right now (Skinner with 1 garbage goal in 8 games, Aho's slow start, Faulk with 1 goal, Rask stinking up the joint. Here is the 82 game goal scoring pace for all the Canes. Guys in RED are the ones (IMO) that are quite a bit lower than we'd expect. Guys in Green are guys that are quite a bit higher than we'd expect.

Jeff Skinner	32
Teuvo Teravainen	29
Jordan Staal	25
Brock McGinn	22
Elias Lindholm	21
Sebastian Aho	18
Derek Ryan	18
Victor Rask	16
Josh Jooris	14
Justin Williams	14
Noah Hanifin	14
Jaccob Slavin	7
Joakim Nordstrom	7
Justin Faulk	4
Brett Pesce	0
Marcus Kruger	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It's a problem insofar as most games they've played have been close but the goals still come hard for them. A few more timely goals and they'd possibly have several more regulation wins. The centers's play-making has just been awful to non-existent. Most games they struggle to score, a couple outlier efforts notwithstanding. Better play making from the pivots would help some of the wingers goal scoring too obviously.

 

[Joe McGrath]

It's a problem insofar as most games they've played have been close but the goals still come hard for them. A few more timely goals and they'd possibly have several more regulation wins. The centers's play-making has just been awful to non-existent. Most games they struggle to score, a couple outlier efforts notwithstanding. Better play making from the pivots would help some of the wingers goal scoring too obviously.

The centers not named Jordan Staal aren’t good. It has nothing to do with their playing style. Rask and Ryan are “playmakers”, they’re just shitty.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's a problem insofar as most games they've played have been close but the goals still come hard for them. A few more timely goals and they'd possibly have several more regulation wins.

A few more timely saves and they'd possibly have more regulation wins. A few more key stops by the defense or on the PK and they'd possibly have more regulation wins. A few more PP goals and they'd have more regulation wins. Faulk not having 1 f***ing goal and they'd possibly have more regulation wins. Just seems odd to me to consider goal scoring the issue after a month where they've scored 3+ goals in 10 out of 13 games in the month of November but have given up 3+ goals in 7 out of 13 games over that same span.

The centers's play-making has just been awful to non-existent. Most games they struggle to score, a couple outlier efforts notwithstanding. Better play making from the pivots would help some of the wingers goal scoring too obviously.

It would no doubt help, not denying that, but the Canes are getting gobs of scoring chances and not converting. We lack skill across our forward ranks. Skinner has never been one to need a playmaking center, he's just in a slump and over his career has hot and cold streaks. Faulk doesn't rely on a play making center, he's just not scoring right now. Aho is now scoring after his drought, but was getting plenty of chances while being held off the score sheet and just plain missing the net. The only winger, IMO, we could really say is not scoring like we thought he should is Williams.

I'm not denying that our centers stink (beyond J. Staal) and that improving them (in general) would lead to more scoring. I just don't agree that scoring goals is the Canes biggest issue (apart from the PP) and that playmakers at C is the issue in a nutshell.

 

[geehaad]

Last night was one of the few OT's of the year the Hurricanes didn't dominate. Generally they do play it like American football, favoring maintaining possession over forcing it.

As noted, part of the problem is their two best offensive guys aren't good 3v3. Skinner tried to walk two guys by himself again, fortunately when that failed Cbus immediately turned it over; Faulk tries to blast one from an odd angle.

Agreed. Not sure why we're getting some chirping in here about not possessing the puck 3-on-3 when last night's game was the first that they haven't completely dominated possession (save for NSH's PP).

 

[geehaad]

i already have a good name for the next thread after we win this one

I think Hank's Point Rule is in effect, here. Do your worst.

 

[StormCast]

A few more timely saves and they'd possibly have more regulation wins. A few more key stops by the defense or on the PK and they'd possibly have more regulation wins. A few more PP goals and they'd have more regulation wins. Faulk not having 1 ****ing goal and they'd possibly have more regulation wins. Just seems odd to me to consider goal scoring the issue after a month where they've scored 3+ goals in 10 out of 13 games in the month of November but have given up 3+ goals in 7 out of 13 games over that same span.



It would no doubt help, not denying that, but the Canes are getting gobs of scoring chances and not converting. We lack skill across our forward ranks. Skinner has never been one to need a playmaking center, he's just in a slump and over his career has hot and cold streaks. Faulk doesn't rely on a play making center, he's just not scoring right now. Aho is now scoring after his drought, but was getting plenty of chances while being held off the score sheet and just plain missing the net. The only winger, IMO, we could really say is not scoring like we thought he should is Williams.

I'm not denying that our centers stink (beyond J. Staal) and that improving them (in general) would lead to more scoring. I just don't agree that scoring goals is the Canes biggest issue (apart from the PP) and that playmakers at C is the issue in a nutshell.

I never stated it was the biggest problem, but rather that the biggest goal scoring issue stems from a lack of play making centers. Two different issues. The fact that they don't have a lot of finishers shines an even brighter light on it. The shots are there but they aren't getting the easy chances that often because the centers aren't setting up the wingers. Even Staal has only been ok, his assist total notwithstanding. I think 4 assists were in one game?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I never stated it was the biggest problem, but rather that the biggest goal scoring issue stems from a lack of play making centers. Two different issues.

Fair enough. When you mentioned more timely goals would lead to more wins, I thought you were implying that. Just thought it was odd given the timing and how they've done in November.

The fact that they don't have a lot of finishers shines an even brighter light on it. The shots are there but they aren't getting the easy chances that often because the centers aren't setting up the wingers.

The games I've watched, for the most part, the Canes have gotten lots of good chances and don't capitalize / don't finish. Plus, as I stated, other than really Aho's early season drought and Justin Williams, are any of the wingers really scoring less than they should? Anyhow, here's how the Canes, as a team, stack up:

Shots on goal / GP : 1st in NHL
Scoring chances / 60: 1st in NHL
High danger scoring chances / 60: 2nd in NHL

Yeah, I get that these metrics aren't perfect and every HDSC isn't equal, but it's not like the Canes aren't getting good scoring chances. I personally think lack of finish is more of an issue lack of playmakers, but I guess it's kind of a chicken or egg thing. If the playmaking is better, you don't need as good finishers. If the finishers are better, you don't need as good playmaking. How about this, let's improve both?

 

[Primetime8]

Fair enough. When you mentioned more timely goals would lead to more wins, I thought you were implying that. Just thought it was odd given the timing and how they've done in November.



The games I've watched, for the most part, the Canes have gotten lots of good chances and don't capitalize / don't finish. Plus, as I stated, other than really Aho's early season drought and Justin Williams, are any of the wingers really scoring less than they should? Anyhow, here's how the Canes, as a team, stack up:

Shots on goal / GP : 1st in NHL
Scoring chances / 60: 1st in NHL
High danger scoring chances / 60: 2nd in NHL

Yeah, I get that these metrics aren't perfect and every HDSC isn't equal, but it's not like the Canes aren't getting good scoring chances. I personally think lack of finish is more of an issue lack of playmakers, but I guess it's kind of a chicken or egg thing. If the playmaking is better, you don't need as good finishers. If the finishers are better, you don't need as good playmaking. How about this, let's improve both?

Do you know how to find "odd man rush" stats? I feel like despite out playing almost every team the other team always seems to have more odd man rushes. Honestly, it could be a psychological thing where I just remember the opponents opportunities better because I feel like they will cash in on there's and the Canes won't.