Buffy Sainte-Marie history being questioned.

[beowulf]

I really don't think it is as cut and dry of a situation as many want to make it out to be. I mean she was adopted by the Piapot in the 60s and I guess it comes down to how much do you believe of her saying she never saw her birth certificate as it had been destroyed in a fire etc.

The thing is-she had previously claimed it via birth and not via loyalty and support. Example--years ago I went through with a ceremony with the We Wai Kum First Nation as an honoured friend. This does not make me a first nations person.

The problem is her position for 60+ years as been she was born in Saskatchewan and adopted by a US family, She got a Canadian passport in the 50's based upon this idea.

The thing is, it is not only her but the first nation in questions that says she is one of them and in this case who are we, as non-natives, to tell them she is not.

 

[MsMeow]

I really don't think it is as cut and dry of a situation as many want to make it out to be. I mean she was adopted by the Piapot in the 60s and I guess it comes down to how much do you believe of her saying she never saw her birth certificate as it had been destroyed in a fire etc.


The thing is, it is not only her but the first nation in questions that says she is one of them and in this case who are we, as non-natives, to tell them she is not.

There was no fire. That's one of the many lies that was talked about on the show.

If she really wants to prove anyone wrong she should do a DNA test. I have to wonder if the Piapot couple that adopted her would have done so if she just presented herself as a white woman.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I really don't think it is as cut and dry of a situation as many want to make it out to be. I mean she was adopted by the Piapot in the 60s and I guess it comes down to how much do you believe of her saying she never saw her birth certificate as it had been destroyed in a fire etc.


The thing is, it is not only her but the first nation in questions that says she is one of them and in this case who are we, as non-natives, to tell them she is not.

I agree it is not cut and dry
--Piapot did the ceremony based upon the information she was one of them. In simple terms it is called "the welcome home" many first nations people had part of their tribe that could be described as nomadic and when they returned to main tribe they had that ceremony(I forget what it is call but attend a couple in BC).

Her entire career is based upon being a first nation person who was adapted into a white family and many first nation tribes built an economy off of what she did.

The question I have is simple and two fold

1) Did she lie?
2) if answer to 1 is yes--second question is WHY? and besides her family who else knew about it?

In recent years there have been quite a few people caught out lying about being an actual first nation person--the academic community has been hit by no less then 4 people who claimed to be first nations but did it reportedly because of what they get for checking that box saying they are first nations. One person had I believe 30 years in academia teaching about "her" people. when in fact I believe she was German/Romania decent.

Like you said--it is not cut and dry. Part of the problem is so many first nation tribes have done something with her over the past 60 years--that they might not want any repercussions against them.

If she was not adopted and the her "adoptive" parents are her biological parents what the hell happened.

Then we have the financial aspect which no one is really talking about. I know she received money from the Alberta government and Saskatchewan government that was suppose to be for first nations artists and it was laid out who qualified for the money and where the person was born and their parentage was covered.

the problem is so many people have a dog in the fight that if she is revealed as being 100% white without any actual first nation blood in her? That might annoy a lot of people.

Depending on the source, her persona wealth is between $3 to $15mill on a legacy that may have been built upon a lie.

My dog in the fight is I grew up with many first nations people and they are still my friends and their legacy being exploited has always been a problem.

Here is another question I have--Why this just coming out now? I think the answer is in the video--she has somewhat retired and I think she stopped giving money to her family that knew her secret and they are now mad.

 

[MsMeow]

I agree it is not cut and dry
--Piapot did the ceremony based upon the information she was one of them. In simple terms it is called "the welcome home" many first nations people had part of their tribe that could be described as nomadic and when they returned to main tribe they had that ceremony(I forget what it is call but attend a couple in BC).

Her entire career is based upon being a first nation person who was adapted into a white family and many first nation tribes built an economy off of what she did.

The question I have is simple and two fold

1) Did she lie?
2) if answer to 1 is yes--second question is WHY? and besides her family who else knew about it?

In recent years there have been quite a few people caught out lying about being an actual first nation person--the academic community has been hit by no less then 4 people who claimed to be first nations but did it reportedly because of what they get for checking that box saying they are first nations. One person had I believe 30 years in academia teaching about "her" people. when in fact I believe she was German/Romania decent.

Like you said--it is not cut and dry. Part of the problem is so many first nation tribes have done something with her over the past 60 years--that they might not want any repercussions against them.

If she was not adopted and the her "adoptive" parents are her biological parents what the hell happened.

Then we have the financial aspect which no one is really talking about. I know she received money from the Alberta government and Saskatchewan government that was suppose to be for first nations artists and it was laid out who qualified for the money and where the person was born and their parentage was covered.

the problem is so many people have a dog in the fight that if she is revealed as being 100% white without any actual first nation blood in her? That might annoy a lot of people.

Depending on the source, her persona wealth is between $3 to $15mill on a legacy that may have been built upon a lie.

My dog in the fight is I grew up with many first nations people and they are still my friends and their legacy being exploited has always been a problem.

Here is another question I have--Why this just coming out now? I think the answer is in the video--she has somewhat retired and I think she stopped giving money to her family that knew her secret and they are now mad.

The story by The Fifth Estate was based on a tip and they followed up. I don't know how much time they spent on it but it wouldn't have been quick as they would have had to get the information verified and also put it through lawyers since this is a massive story to someone who has been seen as an icon to both Indigenous people and Canadians.

They gave her the opportunity to speak with them so she knew it was coming, and I'm guessing that's why she suddenly retired.

If the tip came from the family, specifically her sister or her niece, I think it was to clear Buffy's brother's name. In more than one instance she has blamed him for sexually assaulting her, and she said one more family member did the same. She said she has never said who that family member was.

She needs to come clean now. She put out the video and written message before the show. I've seen all kinds of comments about her sister and her son both having taken a DNA test and they are definitely related. How can she say she's adopted if her son and sister are proven to be related by DNA? If she takes a test herself that is done in the presence of CBC or someone else neutral, and it proves that she is indeed Indigenous, that will clear things up in her favour. I don't think she will because she knows it will show the opposite.

 

[HolyGhost]

now that it has been a few days and more information has come out. Here is my hot takes

1) She got ratted out by family members after she stopped paying them a monthly/yearly fee to keep the secret. She retired last year and the family were expecting money again this year.
2) She first tried to say she was Cree but the Cree quickly found holes in her story and then she settled on Canadian tribe.
3) She was adopted BY A FAMILY FROM THAT TRIBE and that is now how she is now defending what she did said and done over the last 60 years, She was 24/25 when they had the ceremony.
4) The smoking gun for me is that her biological son and he "adoptive" white sister have familial dna. The problem there is the fact that the WHITE family that adopted her did come over from Europe on both her mother and fathers side until around 1880 and they were nowhere near Western Canada and everyone married people that would be described as white.

If it is true that her entire career was a lie? She should explain why. But right now she is playing the victim card it looks like

 

[WetcoastOrca]

now that it has been a few days and more information has come out. Here is my hot takes

1) She got ratted out by family members after she stopped paying them a monthly/yearly fee to keep the secret. She retired last year and the family were expecting money again this year.
2) She first tried to say she was Cree but the Cree quickly found holes in her story and then she settled on Canadian tribe.
3) She was adopted BY A FAMILY FROM THAT TRIBE and that is now how she is now defending what she did said and done over the last 60 years, She was 24/25 when they had the ceremony.
4) The smoking gun for me is that her biological son and he "adoptive" white sister have familial dna. The problem there is the fact that the WHITE family that adopted her did come over from Europe on both her mother and fathers side until around 1880 and they were nowhere near Western Canada and everyone married people that would be described as white.

If it is true that her entire career was a lie? She should explain why. But right now she is playing the victim card it looks like

Yeah for me it’s pretty straightforward. Based on what we know she deliberately lied about her past and then threatened her brother who once talked publicly about it.
I don’t really see it as that complicated. I’ve read of other cases where people mistakenly believed that they were of First Nations ancestry and I find those cases more difficult to address. It’s disappointing for many people who looked up to her I’m sure but that doesn’t change the facts as we know them.

 

[DaaaaB's]

now that it has been a few days and more information has come out. Here is my hot takes

1) She got ratted out by family members after she stopped paying them a monthly/yearly fee to keep the secret. She retired last year and the family were expecting money again this year.
2) She first tried to say she was Cree but the Cree quickly found holes in her story and then she settled on Canadian tribe.
3) She was adopted BY A FAMILY FROM THAT TRIBE and that is now how she is now defending what she did said and done over the last 60 years, She was 24/25 when they had the ceremony.
4) The smoking gun for me is that her biological son and he "adoptive" white sister have familial dna. The problem there is the fact that the WHITE family that adopted her did come over from Europe on both her mother and fathers side until around 1880 and they were nowhere near Western Canada and everyone married people that would be described as white.

If it is true that her entire career was a lie? She should explain why. But right now she is playing the victim card it looks like

Good points, this isn't looking good for her. Regarding point 2 though, The Cree are a Canadian Tribe and were the ones to adopt her. In fact, The Cree are the largest Canadian Tribe if I remember correctly. I believe there's small population of them in Montana but 95% live in Canada. I think it was only one branch that adopted her though and they don't speak for the entire Cree Nation.

 

[beowulf]

now that it has been a few days and more information has come out. Here is my hot takes

1) She got ratted out by family members after she stopped paying them a monthly/yearly fee to keep the secret. She retired last year and the family were expecting money again this year.
2) She first tried to say she was Cree but the Cree quickly found holes in her story and then she settled on Canadian tribe.
3) She was adopted BY A FAMILY FROM THAT TRIBE and that is now how she is now defending what she did said and done over the last 60 years, She was 24/25 when they had the ceremony.
4) The smoking gun for me is that her biological son and he "adoptive" white sister have familial dna. The problem there is the fact that the WHITE family that adopted her did come over from Europe on both her mother and fathers side until around 1880 and they were nowhere near Western Canada and everyone married people that would be described as white.

If it is true that her entire career was a lie? She should explain why. But right now she is playing the victim card it looks like

Just an FYI the Piapot are Cree.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Hadn't really heard much of her prior to this whole story blowing up.

 

[VMBM]

Hadn't really heard much of her prior to this whole story blowing up.

So?

 

[HolyGhost]

Just an FYI the Piapot are Cree.

It was the Ontario Cree that knew something was up and that lead her to the western branch. The Cree are a pretty big and spread out tribe.

 

[Dr Pepper]

So?

Nothing really more to add, just that I was unaware of her cultural significance I guess, or how impactful her career's been.

Also not sure where to sit on this one, whether she's right or CBC has poked a hole in her story.

 

[VMBM]

Nothing really more to add, just that I was unaware of her cultural significance I guess, or how impactful her career's been.

Fair enough. I just thought that maybe you were 'bragging' about not knowing her... Or otherwise trolling.

Nowadays, for example, if there's an obituary of some celebrity in an e-zine, it doesn't take much time to see people saying things like "never heard of him/her" or "who cares?" in the comment section. As if being ignorant/indifferent is something to be smug about.

An 'o tempora, o mores' rant from an old fart. Apologies.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Nothing really more to add, just that I was unaware of her cultural significance I guess, or how impactful her career's been.

Also not sure where to sit on this one, whether she's right or CBC has poked a hole in her story.

There is a reason WHY so many people are pissed off right now. She made it clear where she was born and adopted elsewhere. The question is why did it take 60 years for this to come out. Whenever the Canadian guv got into trouble---they rolled her out or her organization. She has also got a lot of money over 60 years from the Canadians guv and was flown to different places to show the world "our" first nations people are

 

[Jumptheshark]

to give some of you who have no idea who she is--this has made news all over the world. Nearly all news agencies have covered including Al Jazera--this is a crazy story.

the Mass guv has said that her birth certificate is legit.

 

[Jumptheshark]

some comments from the Cree. I can only see them making some of these comments is if she confirmed where she was born

Current Piapot Chief Ira Lavallee responded to the CBC News findings and noted that despite her false claims of being Indigenous, Sainte-Marie remained accepted, saying, "We do have one of our families in our community that did adopt her. Regardless of her ancestry, that adoption in our culture to us is legitimate

Cree author Darrel J. McLeod noted that Sainte-Marie is an honorary member of the Piapot family, "but she grew up with a white family and white privilege" and should apologize to Indigenous people for her "betrayal"

 

[Hammettf2b]

Anything come about with the allegations about her brother and what not. That letter seems pretty damning.

 

[RandV]

I agree it is not cut and dry
--Piapot did the ceremony based upon the information she was one of them. In simple terms it is called "the welcome home" many first nations people had part of their tribe that could be described as nomadic and when they returned to main tribe they had that ceremony(I forget what it is call but attend a couple in BC).

Her entire career is based upon being a first nation person who was adapted into a white family and many first nation tribes built an economy off of what she did.

The question I have is simple and two fold

1) Did she lie?
2) if answer to 1 is yes--second question is WHY? and besides her family who else knew about it?

In recent years there have been quite a few people caught out lying about being an actual first nation person--the academic community has been hit by no less then 4 people who claimed to be first nations but did it reportedly because of what they get for checking that box saying they are first nations. One person had I believe 30 years in academia teaching about "her" people. when in fact I believe she was German/Romania decent.

Did you go through the entire article? It all paints a pretty clear picture, and CBC wouldn't come out with it if it wasn't solid. I think what's kind of at the heart of it, like you mentioning the other people caught doing the same thing, I'm not up on all the psychological terms but is some form of unstudied narcissistic sociopath behaviour that's really only become achievable within her time frame. Like the classic case of a CEO/Politician sociopath is well studied and understood, or of course your mass murderer, but this case of an outsider creating a persona of being a member of some bereaved segment of society and embracing their cause?

Reading between the lines, I suspect what happened is something like:
- as a kid she had a perfectly normal white girl upbringing.
- leaving home she got involved in hippy culture which was embracing a glorified version of indigenous culture at the time, but she went the extra step of sliding into 'actually' being indigenous then combined with innate talent built a music career for herself around that persona.
- with a constantly shifting story of exactly what kind of 'Indian' she was, at age 27(?) she met the Piapot's in Saskatchewan, was embraced by them & adopted into the family, giving her an anchor point in her fictional back story and a real in to start championing indigenous causes.
- For all the 'good' she was achieving (I'd never heard of her before and don't know anything about her other than this article) with that Sesame Street incident regarding her brother you can go 'ah there's that ugly side of a narcissistic sociopath'.

I can't put much more personal involvement into this other than what I read in the article, and I have no idea what goes on in these peoples head, but that last bit makes me think it largely erases whatever good they've achieved as it really seems like there's something sick and twisted going on there.

 

[Stylizer1]

She could be transracial?

 

[MsMeow]

On Facebook in 2020, someone posted a photo of her on Sesame Street and her son, Cody Wolfchild, said it was all lies and that she is of Italian and English descent. He went into great detail about how she copied the vocal style of a French woman. He also said she dyed her hair and wore heavy makeup. I wonder if that's where all this started with CBC.

Also, her sister had DNA testing and at first glance it looks like she has 30% Indigenous DNA but when it was explained further, the number 30 was a marker that they tested against. The colour next to it is gray and that means they didn't find anything. I had seen that before and was puzzled but then someone who knows about ancestry etc. clarified it when asked.

I believe she fooled the people in the Piatpot family by saying she believed she was born in Saskatchewan and was Indigenous.

 

[barriers]

Buffy Sainte-Marie Removes Cree Ancestry Claims from Website Biography | Exclaim!

According to the artist, the changes were made to protect those who have defended her in the wake of the CBC investigation

exclaim.ca

 

[Jumptheshark]

Saskatchewan First Nation chief says Buffy Sainte-Marie should take DNA test

The chief of a Saskatchewan First Nation that has been thrust into the controversy over Buffy Sainte-Marie's ancestry says the legendary singer and songwriter should take a DNA test to provide an answer about her heritage.

canoe.com

wonder if she will take one to settle it once and for all

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Another famous person who lied to advance her career. Not really that shocking tbh if you take away the indigenous aspect of the story.
Disappointing to the many who looked up to her for sure though.

 

[tarheelhockey]

In recent years there have been quite a few people caught out lying about being an actual first nation person--the academic community has been hit by no less then 4 people who claimed to be first nations but did it reportedly because of what they get for checking that box saying they are first nations. One person had I believe 30 years in academia teaching about "her" people. when in fact I believe she was German/Romania decent.

Perhaps the most recognizable “Native American” of the 20th century turned out to be an Italian guy who faked it for so long that he believed his own lies.

Iron Eyes Cody - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org