Confirmed with Link: Buch traded to STL for Blais + 2nd (2022)

[mas0764]

Reinart, Bennett and Lundell.

Are they planning on Barkov leaving?

Maybe Lundell is expendable. It’s not too late, call them!

 

[mas0764]

I don't know, this trade is just more and more mind boggling.

It just doesn't make sense. Buch as a UFA rental gets at least a 1st + roster player

They wanted, targeted, and overpaid for Blais because they care more about mimicking the Islanders and Tom Wilson than actually getting talented centers into this system.

 

[CLW]

Maybe Lundell is expendable. It’s not too late, call them!

Lundell... or Barkov... or Lundell... or Barkov...

 

[NYSPORTS]

Maybe Lundell is expendable. It’s not too late, call them!

lol

 

[2014nyr]

My issue with Blais is that you can find a guy like him for free. We have a younger, cheaper version on the way in Will Cuylle already in the system.

As for what I expected in return for Buch? I expected a 1st and a decent player/prospect or a 2nd and a considerably better prospect. My initial thought was that we would move Buch to LA for a 2nd and one of their center prospects (not Byfield, obvs).

My beef is that if that kind of return wasn't available, you shouldn't just waste the asset by trading it for whatever package IS available. Buch at the TDL at 50% would have brought back at LEAST a 1st and a player as good as or better than Blais.

I'm also concerned about the RW spot for the top two lines. Kakko and Kravtsov have loads of potential. They've proven nothing. Their production this far isn't even 3rd line level, and we're going into the season on the expectation that these two kids can hold the line. I think way too many fans are underestimating just how big of a gamble that is. If you end up with an extra first and a good center prospect? Sure, go ahead and make that gamble. But for spare parts? I'd have kept Buch on a 1 or 2 year deal, let Krav and Kakko fight over the other top 6 RW spot, and if the "loser" of that battle improves as the season progresses, move Buch to the third line and then sell him at the TDL for 50% where he would be a premier rental.

appreciate the thoughts. i do think we absolutely could have returned a first, but that would have been the centerpiece, and i don't think that was what we had in mind. drury was looking for a roster player in a buch deal. in that same vein, i don't think prospects were being pursued - possibly if they were def nhl ready and played that physical, heavy game - but i'm not sure how many of those guys are out there - the ones you'd tier in being reasonable value for buch are also the types teams aren't looking to part with generally. and i really don't think there would have been a huge demand for him. as for if we then forced a trade and took the best option - def fair to question. my read is he was not being signed to any deal, so that would narrow the window. whether or not he might have been amenable to a 1y deal is a fair question too. but drury has been pretty direct about making some changes to the composition of the roster and those changes specifically targeting more physical, bottom 6 types. so in their eyes i don't think they wanted him on the roster this year with kakko/krav - not so much a referendum on him as it was being committed to a more balanced roster. ultimately my read is i'm not sure there were any materially better offers out there, but who knows. interesting to kick around though

i don't necessarily agree on blais being available for free. yes you can find scrappy bottom 6'ers on the cheap, thats absolutely true. but i really think blais is going to surprise people in a big way. he's a really solid player, he has the potential to turn into a very very good bottom 6 player and those can go a long way. i also think gallant had a voice here, because blais is exactly the type of player gallant absolutely loves.

as for the rw situation i couldn't agree more. moving on from buch was something we had to do cap wise...but assuming krav/kakko are ready to step into top 6 roles full time is def risky. i do think kakko will be ready, i loved what we saw from him last year, he seems like a lock to take a big step. kravtsov though i'm much less convinced of. i'd assume the internal discussion might also include barron as a guy that could be ready to win a job, he's going to be a very solid player. but still, we're rolling the dice the kids are ready. the one thing going for us is its not like those roles are going to be leaned on to carry their line. however we assemble them the kids will be next to guys like mika, panarin and hopefully a strome upgrade. and although he's a kid i'm gonna go ahead and put laf in a category of having no doubt he takes a major leap. still though, my personal view on the idea of keeping buch on a 1y deal would not have been the route i took. i just feel like its a season long cloud hanging over the guy knowing this is it and wondering where he's going. thats going to impact his play to at least some degree, and i'd be worried about any impact within the locker room as well. there's just too much baggage with that for me - not just with how buch might handle it but also the guys he's close with - the kind of situation that risks the room getting cliquey as d day approaches.

 

[Synergy27]

Don’t like seeing this thread fall down the list. Buch fading into Rangers memory land is painful for me.

 

[yrrebbor]

The more I think about this trade, the more I hate it.

 

[NYR Viper]

They wanted, targeted, and overpaid for Blais because they care more about mimicking the Islanders and Tom Wilson than actually getting talented centers into this system.

This assumes a young center was on the table from someone else?

 

[mas0764]

This assumes a young center was on the table from someone else?

Not if they never asked for one.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Maybe the brass is slotting Kreider into a top 6 RW role to make it more balanced?

laf-Mika-Kreider
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Goodrow-Chytil-Kravstov
Rooney-Barron-Blais

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Maybe the brass is slotting Kreider into a top 6 RW role to make it more balanced?

laf-Mika-Kreider
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Goodrow-Chytil-Blais
Rooney-Barron-Gauthier

Kravtsov?

 

[egelband]

I got made fun of for pointing this out earlier, I know I’m being doom & gloom but I don’t know if people realize how close knit these guys were. Buch & Shesty were very close friends and have played together so many times and were even teammates in the KHL. Following two teams being a Ranger fan from Vancouver, I notice a huge difference in the dynamic. You don’t see Pettersson Boeser & Hughes hanging out all around town, especially not getting together during the offseason. They all have their seperate friends outside the team, they aren’t each others best friends. You don’t see videos of them in quarantine together playing Fifa & Chess everyday, meeting up in the middle of summer, etc.

I wonder if there was a sense in the front office that maybe those guys are a bit cliquish or even divisive? The lockerroom doesn’t seem to be a huge strong point for this team. I know ADA was part of that. But maybe it’s a multi-dimensional issue.

 

[smoneil]

appreciate the thoughts. i do think we absolutely could have returned a first, but that would have been the centerpiece, and i don't think that was what we had in mind. drury was looking for a roster player in a buch deal. in that same vein, i don't think prospects were being pursued - possibly if they were def nhl ready and played that physical, heavy game - but i'm not sure how many of those guys are out there - the ones you'd tier in being reasonable value for buch are also the types teams aren't looking to part with generally. and i really don't think there would have been a huge demand for him. as for if we then forced a trade and took the best option - def fair to question. my read is he was not being signed to any deal, so that would narrow the window. whether or not he might have been amenable to a 1y deal is a fair question too. but drury has been pretty direct about making some changes to the composition of the roster and those changes specifically targeting more physical, bottom 6 types. so in their eyes i don't think they wanted him on the roster this year with kakko/krav - not so much a referendum on him as it was being committed to a more balanced roster. ultimately my read is i'm not sure there were any materially better offers out there, but who knows. interesting to kick around though

i don't necessarily agree on blais being available for free. yes you can find scrappy bottom 6'ers on the cheap, thats absolutely true. but i really think blais is going to surprise people in a big way. he's a really solid player, he has the potential to turn into a very very good bottom 6 player and those can go a long way. i also think gallant had a voice here, because blais is exactly the type of player gallant absolutely loves.

as for the rw situation i couldn't agree more. moving on from buch was something we had to do cap wise...but assuming krav/kakko are ready to step into top 6 roles full time is def risky. i do think kakko will be ready, i loved what we saw from him last year, he seems like a lock to take a big step. kravtsov though i'm much less convinced of. i'd assume the internal discussion might also include barron as a guy that could be ready to win a job, he's going to be a very solid player. but still, we're rolling the dice the kids are ready. the one thing going for us is its not like those roles are going to be leaned on to carry their line. however we assemble them the kids will be next to guys like mika, panarin and hopefully a strome upgrade. and although he's a kid i'm gonna go ahead and put laf in a category of having no doubt he takes a major leap. still though, my personal view on the idea of keeping buch on a 1y deal would not have been the route i took. i just feel like its a season long cloud hanging over the guy knowing this is it and wondering where he's going. thats going to impact his play to at least some degree, and i'd be worried about any impact within the locker room as well. there's just too much baggage with that for me - not just with how buch might handle it but also the guys he's close with - the kind of situation that risks the room getting cliquey as d day approaches.

It wouldn't have mattered if Buch was amenable to a 1 year deal. All the team had to do was go to arbitration and that would have taken care of itself. The only options there are a 1 or a 2 year deal.

I do agree that you have a point about the potential cloud surrounding Buch in that scenario. I think a good front office can mitigate that with good communication, but that hasn't been the strong suit at MSG in 20+ years.

The RW thing is just giving me whiplash. We're going from one year where the coach didn't want to play these two guys in the top six even if the alternative was player fourth liners in that spot to this coming year where these two guys are being counted on to fill those two spots with no backup plan whatsoever.

As for Blais, I'll just say that I hope you are right and I am wrong, but very rarely does a team win by gambling on the untapped upside of a 25 year old former 6th rounder who has yet to really establish himself as a full time player in the NHL.

 

[egelband]

I'm not trying to pick on you particularly, but this is an attitude I see on these boards a LOT. And it's ridiculous. Yes, it is a business, but businesses that ignore the needs of its employees generally don't do very well. Whenever it comes time for a player to cash in, or when a player won't take a home-town discount, or won't play through an injury, these same "it's a business" posters rip the player to shreds. It can't be about "business" for management and "loyalty" for the players. It just doesn't work that way. There are ways to run a good business while also keeping the needs of the players in mind. Communication is right up there among those methods. This team is bad at that, and it will continue to suffer until it gets better. Look at TB. Every time a move happens, the players are all "well, the team sat us down and talked about the options etc etc." Ranger players find out about too many things after the fact.

I agree with you but in general but not with regard to keeping friends together. In some cases catering to friendships might even be counter productive.

 

[egelband]

It wouldn't have mattered if Buch was amenable to a 1 year deal. All the team had to do was go to arbitration and that would have taken care of itself. The only options there are a 1 or a 2 year deal.

I do agree that you have a point about the potential cloud surrounding Buch in that scenario. I think a good front office can mitigate that with good communication, but that hasn't been the strong suit at MSG in 20+ years.

The RW thing is just giving me whiplash. We're going from one year where the coach didn't want to play these two guys in the top six even if the alternative was player fourth liners in that spot to this coming year where these two guys are being counted on to fill those two spots with no backup plan whatsoever.

As for Blais, I'll just say that I hope you are right and I am wrong, but very rarely does a team win by gambling on the untapped upside of a 25 year old former 6th rounder who has yet to really establish himself as a full time player in the NHL.

Definitely agree on the communication part. It’s not that difficult to keep your team in the loop and make them feel - at least - considered.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I wonder if there was a sense in the front office that maybe those guys are a bit cliquish or even divisive? The lockerroom doesn’t seem to be a huge strong point for this team. I know ADA was part of that. But maybe it’s a multi-dimensional issue.

You could be right about our team being a little cliquish, but I don't think Buch is the root of that as Buch is the one guy who was sort of a part of each of the little friend groups on the team. Based on their social media interactions, who hangs out with each other & just what we see, I'd say the groups were:

(Panarin, Shesterkin, Buchnevich)
(Kreider, Zibanejad, Trouba)
(Strome, Lemieux, DeAngelo)
(Lafreniere, Miller, Kravtsov)
(Lindgren, Fox, Howden)
(Chytil, Kakko, Hajek)

Buch was also very close with Mika, Kreids, DeAngelo & Kravtsov though. Whereas Panarin & Shesterkin seem to be less Americanized (pun intended) and keep to themselves more. I think Kravtsov is like Buch in that regard, he came over early and spent whole summers in America getting acclimated, his English is already much better than Buch, Panarin & Shesterkins. Interestingly Kravtsov's best friend on the team is Miller, even though Russians tend to stick together in the NHL. They always comment on each others posts and hang out outside of hockey, I remember they went surfing together and stuff.

I wouldn't say we're a team with major locker room issues, we're just a very young team and had an inexperienced coach. Our "vets" are still in their mid-late 20's. Sure they can be experienced at playing the game of hockey but in life they are still young. I think it's valuable having at least one or two players who are in their mid 30's with not just more NHL experience, but LIFE experience, to mentor the kids. I think Marc Staal & Henrik Lundqvist leaving really hurt the locker room more than anticipated. Smith was also a great locker room guy. From watching the Canucks though we really do seem like the much more close knit group, something I notice more about the Rangers than other teams is that our players are much more outwardly "affectionate" with each other LOL. Our players at the end of games jump on each others backs and hug them from behind, skate around with their arms around each other, etc. I don't see the Canucks doing that very much.

 

[smoneil]

I agree with you but in general but not with regard to keeping friends together. In some cases catering to friendships might even be counter productive.

Oh, I completely agree. I wasn't suggesting that communication = caving. I was saying that if they knew they wanted to move Buch no matter what (and the return would seem to indicate that this was the case), having a chat with him about it would have gone a long way. For it to come out of the blue like that doesn't help anybody. Like, if a good friend of mine at work was getting moved out because they had out-earned what their position here could pay, knowing about it allows for closure, planning, etc. It makes the employees feel like part of the group. If he's just...gone one day in a move that makes no sense on the surface, people would be walking around wondering if they will be next.

 

[hockfan1991]

Delete

 

[charliemurphy]

Shit is a little depressing especially with the situation with Zib now. Something tells me both Zib and Strome won't be in camp... sure it's not a popular opinion but a part of me wants them to sign Landeskog and Danault then trade Zib and Strome for something that isn't as bad as the Buch trade... ideally a young top C propsect. No Eichel and giving up whatever the cost in players and salary AND no worries about both Zib and Strome long term.

 

[Rongomania]

Shit is a little depressing especially with the situation with Zib now. Something tells me both Zib and Strome won't be in camp... sure it's not a popular opinion but a part of me wants them to sign Landeskog and Danault then trade Zib and Strome for something that isn't as bad as the Buch trade... ideally a young top C propsect. No Eichel and giving up whatever the cost in players and salary AND no worries about both Zib and Strome long term.

I know we don't have really any other options but signing Zib long term just seems like a disaster. I love him when he's not injured, I think he's the best center we've had basically since I've been watching every night.

If Chytil doesn't take a big step this year I don't know what we're going to do honestly. I just don't want to be forced into signing Zib because we have zero other options at a high caliber center.

c'mon Drury make some magic happen.

 

[charliemurphy]

I know we don't have really any other options but signing Zib long term just seems like a disaster. I love him when he's not injured, I think he's the best center we've had basically since I've been watching every night.

If Chytil doesn't take a big step this year I don't know what we're going to do honestly. I just don't want to be forced into signing Zib because we have zero other options at a high caliber center.

c'mon Drury make some magic happen.

Its a tough position no doubt but the Rangers have assets along with some cap flexibility. All the more reason why both Landeskog and Danault aren't bad options and moving on from both Strome and Zib looks likely.
I'm with you on Chytil, there are times where I think he would be more effective on the wing.

 

[duhmetreE]

Don’t like seeing this thread fall down the list. Buch fading into Rangers memory land is painful for me.

 

[Peltz]

My issue with Blais is that you can find a guy like him for free. We have a younger, cheaper version on the way in Will Cuylle already in the system.

As for what I expected in return for Buch? I expected a 1st and a decent player/prospect or a 2nd and a considerably better prospect. My initial thought was that we would move Buch to LA for a 2nd and one of their center prospects (not Byfield, obvs).

My beef is that if that kind of return wasn't available, you shouldn't just waste the asset by trading it for whatever package IS available. Buch at the TDL at 50% would have brought back at LEAST a 1st and a player as good as or better than Blais.

I'm also concerned about the RW spot for the top two lines. Kakko and Kravtsov have loads of potential. They've proven nothing. Their production this far isn't even 3rd line level, and we're going into the season on the expectation that these two kids can hold the line. I think way too many fans are underestimating just how big of a gamble that is. If you end up with an extra first and a good center prospect? Sure, go ahead and make that gamble. But for spare parts? I'd have kept Buch on a 1 or 2 year deal, let Krav and Kakko fight over the other top 6 RW spot, and if the "loser" of that battle improves as the season progresses, move Buch to the third line and then sell him at the TDL for 50% where he would be a premier rental.

I’m not worried about Kakko or Krav. Don’t forget, it may even be Laf playing the right side. These guys will produce.

 

[mas0764]

If Lafreniere is moving it should be to center.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The deal is the deal at this point. But I guess I'm struggling to see how Buch went from a value of 9th overall in a very good draft (That would have netted us Zegras) to Blais and a 2nd after he actually played BETTER.