Prospect Info: BSH: Flyers Midterm 25 Under 25 Update

[Curufinwe]

25-21
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...ng-bunnaman-fazleev-friedman-vorobyov-allison

20-16
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...alysis-aube-kubel-laberge-sandstrom-lyon-weal

15-11
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...cts-analysis-hagg-hart-leier-rubtsov-laughton

10-6
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...analysis-cousins-morin-myers-stolarz-lindblom

5-1
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...nheim-konecny-gostisbehere-couturier-provorov

No. T-1: Ivan Provorov - D, Philadelphia, NHL
No. T-1: Sean Couturier - F, Philadelphia, NHL
No. 3: Shayne Gostisbehere - D, Philadelphia, NHL
No. 4: Travis Konecny - F, Philadelphia, NHL
No. 5: Travis Sanheim - D, Lehigh Valley, AHL

No. 6: Oskar Lindblom - F, Brynas, SHL
No. 7: Anthony Stolarz - G, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 8: Philippe Myers - D, Rouyn-Noranda, QMJHL
No. 9: Samuel Morin - D, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 10: Nick Cousins - F, Philadelphia, NHL

No. 11: Scott Laughton - F, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 12: German Rubtsov - F, Chicoutimi, QMJHL
No. 13: Taylor Leier - F, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 14: Carter Hart - G, Everett, WHL
No. T-15: Robert Hagg - D, Lehigh Valley, AHL

No. T-15: Jordan Weal - F, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 17: Alex Lyon - G, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 18: Felix Sandstrom - G, Brynas, SHL
No. 19: Pascal Laberge - F, Victoriaville, QMJHL
No. 20: Nicolas Aube-Kubel - F, Lehigh Valley, AHL

No. 21: Wade Allison - F, Western Michigan, NCAA
No. 22: Mikhail Vorobyov - F, Salavat Yulaev Ufa, KHL
No. 23: Mark Friedman - D, Bowling Green, NCAA
No. 24: Radel Fazleev - F, Lehigh Valley, AHL
No. 25: Connor Bunnaman - F, Kitchener, OHL

Click to read more...

 

[JojoTheWhale]

For the sake of reference, this was their preseason ranking:

1. Couturier
2. Gostisbehere
3. Provorov
4. Konecny
5. Sanheim
6. Laughton
7. Morin
8. Cousins
9. Stolarz
10. Rubtsov
11. Hagg
12. Lindblom
13. Aube-Kubel
14. Leier
15. Myers
16. Weal
17. Fazleev
18. Laberge
19. Straka
20. Hart
21. Alt
22. Lyon
23. Friedman
24. Sandstrom
25. Allison

So basically, prospects are not their strength. It's just not what they do. Way, way too much emphasis on making it to the AHL/NHL.

 

[Stizzle]

I'm not sure why they even bother doing prospect lists. They are cringe inducing, and misleading to the readers.

 

[kudymen]

For the sake of reference, this was their preseason ranking:

1. Couturier
2. Gostisbehere
3. Provorov
4. Konecny
5. Sanheim
6. Laughton
7. Morin
8. Cousins
9. Stolarz
10. Rubtsov
11. Hagg
12. Lindblom
13. Aube-Kubel
14. Leier
15. Myers
16. Weal
17. Fazleev
18. Laberge
    [*]Straka
    [*]Hart
    [*]Alt
    [*]Lyon
    
19. Friedman
20. Sandstrom
21. Allison

So basically, prospects are not their strength. It's just not what they do. Way, way too much emphasis on making it to the AHL/NHL.

Whole list is weird, but the bolded sequence is... well, pretty bold

 

[Tripod]

So a WJC player, and top freshman scorer in college can't make our top 25 prospects?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

So a WJC player, and top freshman scorer in college can't make our top 25 prospects?

Their only exposure to Laczynski to this point was probably at the WJC's where he was in a limited role.

Ultimately like said above they're seemingly not prospect junkies. They seem to overvalue closeness to the NHL as well. So I think that along with Laczynski being a 6th rounder playing in college is why they didn't rank him.

 

[Flyotes]

We've replaced this list with Folgers Crystals. Let's see if Bellemare notices.

 

[Charlie OConnor]

Their only exposure to Laczynski to this point was probably at the WJC's where he was in a limited role.

Ultimately like said above they're seemingly not prospect junkies. They seem to overvalue closeness to the NHL as well. So I think that along with Laczynski being a 6th rounder playing in college is why they didn't rank him.

I cannot speak for the rest of the writers, but I ranked Laczynski 24th, and my reasons why are below:

1) He wasn't drafted in his first year of NHL eligibility. He is young for his year, but I'm always going to be a bit skeptical of players who were passed over once unless there is a very compelling reason as to why (Myers).

2) That fact, in turn, makes his freshman season (while still very good) a bit less impressive, since he's more like a traditional sophomore in terms of birth year. Same with his WJC role -- he was a 19-year old playing fourth line minutes. The best 19-year old prospects are playing primary roles for their countries in that tournament, while Laczynski was in a dogfight just to make it.

3) In my limited viewings (one OSU game and most of the WJC), he seems like an all-around solid player, but appeared (to me) to lack an obvious standout skill, such as Wade Allison's shot/volume shooting ability. The production is impressive, but I'm not totally sold on his top-six upside yet, and I don't value prospects with bottom-six NHL ceilings especially highly.

4) The Flyers have a really deep pipeline. This is a top 25 under 25 list, so Laczynski gets hurt a bit by the fact that guys like Provorov, Konecny, Couturier and Gostisbehere all still make the list. On my list he's essentially their 18th best pure prospect, which I'd stand by considering all the talent that the organization has stockpiled.

Essentially, I view Laczynski as a very intriguing dark-horse type prospect, but he's solidly in the Flyers' Tier 3 with guys like Friedman and Bernhardt for me.

 

[Flyotes]

I'm fairly high on him for reasons I've stated here multiple times. He has offensive talent, but was forced to reign in it to work on his defense. It took time, work, and coaching, but he's done that. For being taken later in the draft, I prefer a forward at that spot who can play defense if he makes it, but still has solid hands and could potentially put the biscuit in the net. There is a reason he was at the WJC -- enough to get excited about in my mind. The bell curve puts him in a bottom six role if he made the NHL.

I don't disagree with your reasons "dark-horse" et cetera, but behind Straka? Alt? Weal? Leier (okay, maybe nearer Leier)?

Actually, I'm the worst person to talk to about this -- I would probably rank him higher than others here.

 

[Charlie OConnor]

The full list from a few posts ago was from back in August, before Laczynski started his strong freshman year. Back then, he was just a 19-year old just-drafted sixth round pick.

As for the guys you just listed, I only have Leier ahead of him, and that's because he's shown he can excel at the AHL level and therefore comes with more certainty. If I'm ranking two guys who I project as having ceilings of solid NHL bottom-sixers, I'm going to lean towards the one who has proven his skillset at a higher level of competition.

 

[Flyotes]

Makes sense if that is the lens you're using.

Just random stuff to promote the guy a bit:

He's +18 (even with Ohio D), over a PPG, with a FO% of 54%. Scoring has cooled off a bit. Shooting ~11%. 4th in shots on a good offensive team. He's missed a few game as well that curbs his #s.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Big fan of your work, Charlie. I hope I didn't come across harshly above. In fact, I was going for the opposite -- the site does an excellent job covering the Flyers, which is where the focus lies.

3) In my limited viewings (one OSU game and most of the WJC), he seems like an all-around solid player, but appeared (to me) to lack an obvious standout skill, such as Wade Allison's shot/volume shooting ability. The production is impressive, but I'm not totally sold on his top-six upside yet, and I don't value prospects with bottom-six NHL ceilings especially highly.

In this vein, it would be reasonable to assume you would be significantly lower on a Fazleev than some others? It now also makes me curious as to where you would slot a Hagg. I know we'll get an answer as the list is revealed, but he's the ultimate lack of an obvious standout skill, living on draft hype organizational exemplar in my book these days.

4) The Flyers have a really deep pipeline. This is a top 25 under 25 list, so Laczynski gets hurt a bit by the fact that guys like Provorov, Konecny, Couturier and Gostisbehere all still make the list. On my list he's essentially their 18th best pure prospect, which I'd stand by considering all the talent that the organization has stockpiled.

Essentially, I view Laczynski as a very intriguing dark-horse type prospect, but he's solidly in the Flyers' Tier 3 with guys like Friedman and Bernhardt for me.

I don't think 18 is unreasonable at all. As you said, the tier (which I find to be a much more informative way of ordering prospects, but I understand the nature of lists generating hits and discussion) on which he fits is massive. You could probably make a pretty good case for him being anywhere from 14 to 22 or so on a list of purely prospects.

 

[Magua]

Laczynski is quite skilled though, as a passer and shooter. And he's quite the beast on the forecheck and cycle game. As a center I might say he's more bottom 6 ceiling, but if he keeps on improving his skating, particularly his first steps, I don't think it would be unfair to call him someone with middle 6 potential and skills at wing.

We are fans of his around here tbf. Even with the caveat that guys already in the pros are rated higher, Allison and Vorobyov and Friedman rankings seem a little criminal too at face value. Someone could link our poll here, but we had them all battling in the back half of the top 10 of prospects.

 

[Charlie OConnor]

Big fan of your work, Charlie. I hope I didn't come across harshly above. In fact, I was going for the opposite -- the site does an excellent job covering the Flyers, which is where the focus lies.

No problem! I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from with my ranking. I certainly would not call myself a prospect junkie but I do keep a pretty close eye on these guys.

In this vein, it would be reasonable to assume you would be significantly lower on a Fazleev than some others? It now also makes me curious as to where you would slot a Hagg. I know we'll get an answer as the list is revealed, but he's the ultimate lack of an obvious standout skill, living on draft hype organizational exemplar in my book these days.

You would be right on Fazleev -- I did not rank him in my top 25, and that was exactly my thought process. The reason why I tend to rank guys with bottom-six ceilings lower is because I believe that an especially shrewd organization can build strong third and fourth lines simply by signing undervalued NHL veterans. It's the impact scorers that you really need to acquire through the draft.

Hagg is interesting because it's become apparent at this point that he's not going to score much if he makes it to the NHL level. But I haven't given up hope on him as a potential play-driver. I ranked him at #17.

 

[Charlie OConnor]

We are fans of his around here tbf. Even with the caveat that guys already in the pros are rated higher, Allison and Vorobyov and Friedman rankings seem a little criminal too at face value. Someone could link our poll here, but we had them all battling in the back half of the top 10 of prospects.

I'm higher than the BSH consensus on all three of those prospects, as well. I had Friedman at #20, Allison at #16, and Vorobyov in my top-15.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I cannot speak for the rest of the writers, but I ranked Laczynski 24th, and my reasons why are below:

1) He wasn't drafted in his first year of NHL eligibility. He is young for his year, but I'm always going to be a bit skeptical of players who were passed over once unless there is a very compelling reason as to why (Myers).

2) That fact, in turn, makes his freshman season (while still very good) a bit less impressive, since he's more like a traditional sophomore in terms of birth year. Same with his WJC role -- he was a 19-year old playing fourth line minutes. The best 19-year old prospects are playing primary roles for their countries in that tournament, while Laczynski was in a dogfight just to make it.

3) In my limited viewings (one OSU game and most of the WJC), he seems like an all-around solid player, but appeared (to me) to lack an obvious standout skill, such as Wade Allison's shot/volume shooting ability. The production is impressive, but I'm not totally sold on his top-six upside yet, and I don't value prospects with bottom-six NHL ceilings especially highly.

4) The Flyers have a really deep pipeline. This is a top 25 under 25 list, so Laczynski gets hurt a bit by the fact that guys like Provorov, Konecny, Couturier and Gostisbehere all still make the list. On my list he's essentially their 18th best pure prospect, which I'd stand by considering all the talent that the organization has stockpiled.

Essentially, I view Laczynski as a very intriguing dark-horse type prospect, but he's solidly in the Flyers' Tier 3 with guys like Friedman and Bernhardt for me.

Yeah I don't disagree with that. I think he's certainly worthy of being listed but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people generally just fill lists at the end with players who they're familiar with.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

We are fans of his around here tbf. Even with the caveat that guys already in the pros are rated higher, Allison and Vorobyov and Friedman rankings seem a little criminal too at face value. Someone could link our poll here, but we had them all battling in the back half of the top 10 of prospects.

I'm higher than the BSH consensus on all three of those prospects, as well. I had Friedman at #20, Allison at #16, and Vorobyov in my top-15.

I do wonder if this isn't a case where the differences in the two types of lists makes it closer than it otherwise might seem. You're adding at least Couturier and Gostisbehere to the top of the list, then potentially some mixture of Cousins and/or Laughton.

I'm also guessing positional scarcity didn't factor in here. Plus, as I frequently say when pumping Friedman's tires a bit, almost no one watches Bowling Green. I can't blame them for skipping it.

If you take Charlie's list, I would guess that given natural fluctuation within tiers, it's not TOO far off from what I would guess would be current consensus of

Sanheim

Lindblom/Myers

Rubtsov/Morin

Vorobyov/Laberge/Allison/Aube-Kubel/Friedman/Hagg/Hart/Sandstrom

Leier/Bunnaman/Laczynski/Kase/Bernhardt/Hogberg

I have no idea what tier people would put Stolarz in, but I would guess towards the top of 4 would be closest.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I still feel like a guy like Allison would be talked more about & seen as a better prospect on this site if he wasn't playing in college at Western Michigan. I think Hockey Canada even discounts some of these Canadians playing in the NCAA as well. If he was playing in Brandon in the WHL from the start of the year I think the perception around him would have been a lot different throughout the year & now.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I'm higher than the BSH consensus on all three of those prospects, as well. I had Friedman at #20, Allison at #16, and Vorobyov in my top-15.

Thanks for sharing your thought process with us, Charlie - it's nice to get your perspective.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I still feel like a guy like Allison would be talked more about & seen as a better prospect on this site if he wasn't playing in college at Western Michigan. I think Hockey Canada even discounts some of these Canadians playing in the NCAA as well. If he was playing in Brandon in the WHL from the start of the year I think the perception around him would have been a lot different throughout the year & now.

Yeah I've got a good feeling about him. I like his game. You get him with a strong playmaker at the next level and let him go to work. It would have been fun to see how many points he would have put up with Nolan Patrick, but I like where he's at now. Not sure how much he would have gotten out of another year in junior on that team and then he would have had to make the jump to pro hockey next year. Going to Western Michigan was a big challenge for him and he's responded well so far. WMU has had quite the turnaround and he's a big reason why. I think one more year of college and he should be ready to make the jump to pro hockey.

 

[Curufinwe]

If Allison could turn into a Charlie Coyle level winger, that would be a real steal.

Coyle left college halfway thru his sophmore season to play in the QMJHL.

http://www.startribune.com/statemen...ie-coyle-leaving-boston-university/135764783/

Charlie Coyle has decided to leave Boston University. Contrary to
speculation he did not flunk out of BU. He is leaving the world of being
a student-athlete to play hockey on a full-time basis and pursue his
goal of becoming an NHL player. Charlie loved his teammates, coaches and
truly enjoyed playing hockey at BU. His next stop is the QMJHL to play
for the Saint John Seadogs

 

[FLYguy3911]

Coyle was going pro after that season either way. Allison probably needs another year after this one before he goes pro.

 

[Stizzle]

They have Scott Laughton slotted at 11th today. I'd say this is one of the most egregious rankings.

As far as young centers go, he's ahead of Rubtsov, which is hilarious.

Also, Vorobyov barely makes the list, and it's not even debatable who I'd rather have in the organization between Laughton and him. Vorobyov wins in a landslide. I can't even imagine a rational argument for Laughton here.

Laughton is not the same player we drafted. He just hasn't rebounded from his concussions. Laczynski didn't even make there top 25. Yet, I'd argue he is another center I'd take my chances with over Laughton. Laczynski has shown very well, not only in college but for USA both in the Summer Showcase and in the WJC's. He has a nice skill set, good size, is super versatile, and smart.

 

[Magua]

Go down to see the details of how individuals slotted them in today, and there's some......curious choices to say the least.

As for Laughton, I put him in the low 20s, I think, when I voted.

 

[Curufinwe]

They have Scott Laughton slotted at 11th today. I'd say this is one of the most egregious rankings.

As far as young centers go, he's ahead of Rubtsov, which is hilarious.

Also, Vorobyov barely makes the list, and it's not even debatable who I'd rather have in the organization between Laughton and him. Vorobyov wins in a landslide. I can't even imagine a rational argument for Laughton here.

Laughton is not the same player we drafted. He just hasn't rebounded from his concussions. Laczynski didn't even make there top 25. Yet, I'd argue he is another center I'd take my chances with over Laughton. Laczynski has shown very well, not only in college but for USA both in the Summer Showcase and in the WJC's. He has a nice skill set, good size, is super versatile, and smart.

Do you also have Lacyznksi ahead of Leier? Because Leier hasn't played any better in the AHL this season than Laughton has, and they're the same age. Laughton has also shown more in the NHL than Leier has.