Post-Game Talk: Bruins break losing streak to habs

[Habs_Apostle]

Good/Bad is all subjective, I want a coach with conviction. Figure out how you want the team to play, figure out the best lineups to acheive this goal then, good or bad, let the horses run.

With MT I still dont know that the lineups are going to be and no matter what combination you want, MT can point to a time when he iced that combination and point out that it didnt work.

I'm fine with guys mixing up the lines a little to get guys to jump, to hold them accountable and I understand that not every player is going to be available every game due to injuries, but if anyone can say ( other than DD and Patches) who is going to play with who, its a blind guess at both ends of the rink.

Even if, by sheer luck, we finally dialed into a good lineup its not going to last more than a game or two before it is completelty scrambled again.

right now our approach is to hope to get some random combination that just does not prevent our goalie from stealing a game.

I dont think that chemistry is everything, but I think it is something and aside from two players on our team, can you think of any two other players that have played together enough to develop any chemistry ?

Yeah, but the fans are as schizophrenic on this as the coaches. If MT keeps the lines the way they are, fans will scream for changes; if he changes things, they'll scream he's not giving the lines a chance. Bottom line is that when we lose, no what what MT does, it's wrong. People just need to ***** and to find a scapegoat. It makes them feel better to blame someone, anyone, anything. And, rightly or wrongly, this is frequently the coach. It's been the same with every coach, from Julien, to Martin, to MT. I mean, this isn't the first time we've heard how the coach is ruining certain players, holding back their development. Every coach Montreal has had seems to have done that. In other words, different coach, same old song why he's inept.

 

[Hoople]

I want Therrien fired just so we can end the Therrien obsession. Unfortunately, I've been through this with coach after coach. And I have no doubt I'll have to endure this with yet another coach. I wonder how many leading the Therrien revolt were also doing something similar back in the day with Julien. Fricken guy went on to win a cup. Although, even Bruins fans shortly before that wanted him fired, and in no uncertain terms, pointing out, like now with Therrien, how he was ruining everyone on the team. And no I am not saying Therrien is Julien the second. I'm just saying it's something fans do when their team starts sucking.

But maybe these fans need some accountability. OK, let's say we fire Therrien and hire, say, Boucher. How about all of you Therrien haters sign something to the effect that if we are not consistently 1-2 in the East that you will stop posting (because, after all, this is the only reason we apparently suck). Also, no matter who we hire, how about no *****ing and whining for 4 years. In other words, that's it, this is the guy we got for 4 freaking years. You're just going to have to learn to manage your emotions like an adult, meaning I don't want to have to hear you cry like a baby after every loss because you soiled your diaper again. Deal?

I like your approach.

Since we have had so many incompetents as coaches over the last decade or so, lets just keep Therrien around. Accept the fact that the Habs will never win a Cup and move on.

Not sure how many Habs teams you have seen lifting the Cup at Center Ice in celebration of winning the Cup. So I will just simply say that there are too many fans who have come to grips with accepting the Habs as just another NHL team that annually has no chance to win the Cup.

 

[Hoople]

Yeah, but the fans are as schizophrenic on this as the coaches. If MT keeps the lines the way they are, fans will scream for changes; if he changes things, they'll scream he's not giving the lines a chance. Bottom line is that when we lose, no what what MT does, it's wrong. People just need to ***** and to find a scapegoat. It makes them feel better to blame someone, anyone, anything. And, rightly or wrongly, this is frequently the coach. It's been the same with every coach, from Julien, to Martin, to MT. I mean, this isn't the first time we've heard how the coach is ruining certain players, holding back their development. Every coach Montreal has had seems to have done that. In other words, different coach, same old song why he's inept.

For once, I wish that people would ignore the lines.

Last night showed that it does not matter who is playing with whom on which line.

We had calls for the EGG line and they did not work. We had calls for moving Vanek away from Pleks and that did not work. We had all sorts of combinations of lines presented. They will work about as well.

Its the system (or lack thereof) on offense and the system (or lack thereof) on defense that will ensure the Habs go one more year without winning the Cup.

And try as you might to hoist up Therrien, that ultimately falls on his shoulders.

His system has effectively shut down Vanek. The same guy who used to eat the Boston Bruins for lunch.

 

[Habs_Apostle]

I like your approach.

Since we have had so many incompetents as coaches over the last decade or so, lets just keep Therrien around. Accept the fact that the Habs will never win a Cup and move on.

Not sure how many Habs teams you have seen lifting the Cup at Center Ice in celebration of winning the Cup. So I will just simply say that there are too many fans who have come to grips with accepting the Habs as just another NHL team that annually has no chance to win the Cup.

But this simply isn't true. We obviously had a great coach in Julien. He's more than proven that. We completely dropped the ball on that one. We failed to recognize how good of a coach he was. We just needed to be patient and give him the right players and, as he's showing now with Boston, he would have consistently given us a chance to succeed.

And that's my point. Again, I'm not saying Therrien is that coach. I'm just saying let's pick someone and work on shaping the team to the coaching staff and not vice versa. Let's just have a little patience already.

 

[Habs_Apostle]

For once, I wish that people would ignore the lines.

Last night showed that it does not matter who is playing with whom on which line.

We had calls for the EGG line and they did not work. We had calls for moving Vanek away from Pleks and that did not work. We had all sorts of combinations of lines presented. They will work about as well.

Its the system (or lack thereof) on offense and the system (or lack thereof) on defense that will ensure the Habs go one more year without winning the Cup.

And try as you might to hoist up Therrien, that ultimately falls on his shoulders.

His system has effectively shut down Vanek. The same guy who used to eat the Boston Bruins for lunch.

Vanek's been here 3 games, let's be a little patient here. And I'm not hoisting Therrien. I'm just pointing out how history keeps repeating itself regarding the coaching situation. I've just had to listen to the same crap regarding coaches forever now. What your saying about MT is nothing new. This has happened with every freaking coach. I'm just calling for stability regarding coaching, that's all.

 

[sandysan]

For once, I wish that people would ignore the lines.

Last night showed that it does not matter who is playing with whom on which line.

We had calls for the EGG line and they did not work. We had calls for moving Vanek away from Pleks and that did not work. We had all sorts of combinations of lines presented. They will work about as well.

Its the system (or lack thereof) on offense and the system (or lack thereof) on defense that will ensure the Habs go one more year without winning the Cup.

And try as you might to hoist up Therrien, that ultimately falls on his shoulders.

His system has effectively shut down Vanek. The same guy who used to eat the Boston Bruins for lunch.

Why ? we have 15 games left and aside from the early success of the egg line, its been musical chairs ever since.

I DONT think we are a great team but I'm convinced that even if we were this constant ( and incomprehensible) line shuffling means that no one buys into any system becuase they dont know how the other parts are going to move and by the time they find out, its another batch of different parts.

I didnt think Vanek would slide right in right away, i'm willing to give him time to get used to his linemates. The big question, is which ones ? if you answer this now, in three days it will be someone else.

 

[ECWHSWI]

But this simply isn't true. We obviously had a great coach in Julien. He's more than proven that. We completely dropped the ball on that one. We failed to recognize how good of a coach he was. We just needed to be patient and give him the right players and, as he's showing now with Boston, he would have consistently given us a chance to succeed.

And that's my point. Again, I'm not saying Therrien is that coach. I'm just saying let's pick someone and work on shaping the team to the coaching staff and not vice versa. Let's just have a little patience already.

huh... no, that would require for Timmins to draft players according on who's the coach and not on who's the BPA period.

Even Boston (since you guys are talking Julien), who are a solid team for last few seasons, arent doing that.

 

[groovejuice]

But this simply isn't true. We obviously had a great coach in Julien. He's more than proven that. We completely dropped the ball on that one. We failed to recognize how good of a coach he was. We just needed to be patient and give him the right players and, as he's showing now with Boston, he would have consistently given us a chance to succeed.

And that's my point. Again, I'm not saying Therrien is that coach. I'm just saying let's pick someone and work on shaping the team to the coaching staff and not vice versa. Let's just have a little patience already.

Clone Boullion?

 

[Son of bodacious]

huh... no, that would require for Timmins to draft players according on who's the coach and not on who's the BPA period.

Even Boston (since you guys are talking Julien), who are a solid team for last few seasons, arent doing that.

I disagree - the Bruins definitely build a team with plan/philosophy - they have discarded talent (Kessel, Seguin) that the Habs haven't had a sniff of since before Koivu, just because they didn't fit the Bruins system. You fit the coach to the philosophy, then you acquire players to play the system the coach implements.

Can anyone honestly tell me what the Habs philosophy of team building is? That's been the problem for the last 20 years.

 

[Harpo]

I guess Therrien is playing the same role as he did with the Penguins. Takes a talented core and teach it that talent is not enough, right to the point where the team underperforms, and everyone hates him, and then he gets fired.

Then the core gets a little bit of leash and perform under a better strategist.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I guess Therrien is playing the same role as he did with the Penguins. Takes a talented core and teach it that talent is not enough, right to the point where the team underperforms, and everyone hates him, and then he gets fired.

Then the core gets a little bit of leash and perform under a better strategist.

It's more or less the same story with every coach since the dawn of time really.

 

[Habs Icing]

My personal favorite. Price injures himself in practice (or tweaks an old injury): "Therrien, you freaking idiot! Fire his ass for causing this with that stupid drill!"

Seriously, not saying the guy doesn't deserve criticism; but holy hell, man, this place has truly become idiotville.

Yeah, I didn't mention that one because I wanted to stay with last night's game. But that was a great one. That remark should be a meme for the Habs forum on HF boards.

 

[Habs Icing]

I like your approach.

Since we have had so many incompetents as coaches over the last decade or so, lets just keep Therrien around. Accept the fact that the Habs will never win a Cup and move on.

Not sure how many Habs teams you have seen lifting the Cup at Center Ice in celebration of winning the Cup. So I will just simply say that there are too many fans who have come to grips with accepting the Habs as just another NHL team that annually has no chance to win the Cup.

You see that's where you went wrong, real wrong. One of those incompetent coaches won a cup, another brought his team to the SC finals. The one we have now also brought his to the SC finals. So maybe your perception of the present is as askew as it is of the past

 

[zzoo]

Gggggrrrrrrr, 8 games without a win in regulation.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Gggggrrrrrrr, 8 games without a win in regulation.

We've played 4 of the top 6 teams in the league, and 4 other solid teams in LA, Phoenix, Detroit and Toronto and still have put up a decent 3-4-1 record despite not having our best player...

 

[Harpo]

It's more or less the same story with every coach since the dawn of time really.

Kinda. But with Therrien, he's been brought in to teach "dissipline", character and "******". Once he plants his seeds, his work is done. Someone like Martin was trying to get the best results out of an average team, and was decent in that regard. Martin played it safe, got decent results for a while, then got fired once the team was exposed for what it was. Therrien will take decisions that might pay off long term (or not), but will often sink the team day-to-day. All in all, if we're planning for the future, it might be better to have this Therrien phase. Even though it's quite frustrating right now, because we always want to win NOW.

Edit: Seriously, "respect" with a k is a banned word now?

 

[TRG]

Kinda. But with Therrien, he's been brought in to teach "dissipline", character and "******". Once he plants his seeds, his work is done. Someone like Martin was trying to get the best results out of an average team, and was decent in that regard. Martin played it safe, got decent results for a while, then got fired once the team was exposed for what it was. Therrien will take decisions that might pay off long term (or not), but will often sink the team day-to-day. All in all, if we're planning for the future, it might be better to have this Therrien phase. Even though it's quite frustrating right now, because we always want to win NOW.

Edit: Seriously, "respect" with a k is a banned word now?

Lol even Red dit is banned. Look, ******.

 

[Hoople]

You see that's where you went wrong, real wrong. One of those incompetent coaches won a cup, another brought his team to the SC finals. The one we have now also brought his to the SC finals. So maybe your perception of the present is as askew as it is of the past

No. Perception of the present is very real.

Julien was a very young 43 year old first time NHL coach when he was hired. He struggled in Montreal. Excluding ties, he had a .537 winning percentage. He was in Montreal before he developed his craft to the level where it is now. (Are you better at what you do if you have 11 years of experience doing it? I think so.)

Vigneault was 37 when he became a first time NHL coach with the Habs. He struggled with the Habs and it took him 12 years to take the Canucks to the Stanley Cup. Again, he had years to improve his coaching.

And then we have Therrien.

A .500 coach with the Habs the first time. He then had 3 + years with Pittsburgh.

Therrien is not a rookie coach. So your point is not even remotely valid. And using Therrien losing in the Stanley Cup with Crosby and Malkin is not doing him any favors by the way.

 

[Habs Icing]

No. Perception of the present is very real.

Julien was a very young 43 year old first time NHL coach when he was hired. He struggled in Montreal. Excluding ties, he had a .537 winning percentage. He was in Montreal before he developed his craft to the level where it is now. (Are you better at what you do if you have 11 years of experience doing it? I think so.)

Vigneault was 37 when he became a first time NHL coach with the Habs. He struggled with the Habs and it took him 12 years to take the Canucks to the Stanley Cup. Again, he had years to improve his coaching.

And then we have Therrien.

A .500 coach with the Habs the first time. He then had 3 + years with Pittsburgh.

Therrien is not a rookie coach. So your point is not even remotely valid. And using Therrien losing in the Stanley Cup with Crosby and Malkin is not doing him any favors by the way.

You claimed we've had incompetent coaches. No we haven't. Three of the coaches we had went onto SC finals. One of them won the cup. No matter what spin you put on that, it happened.

If you're going to take away Therrien's presence in SC finals because he had Crosby & Malkin then you better dub Bylsma a bigger idiot then Therrien because with the same 2 players and at other times with a better team he missed not only the SC finals but the conference finals also. If i remember correctly he also managed not to win a single round in a year or two.

Therrien has shown he is a competent coach and if not an elite coach he is definitely in the next tier.

We have had our coaches go through a revolving door for the last decade or more. MB said he was going to bring stability to the franchise and he has done it. We are no longer the laughing stock of the league as we were in the last year of Gauthier's tenure. I'm willing to go the full extend of Therrien's contact which means another year.

 

[BRAD HABSFAN]

Well I ssooo looked forward to us driving up the 7 hours to catch this game and WWOOOWW. It was nice to see that Vanek stuck his butt in front of the goalie every chance he had. Told my wife this club has been missing that attitude for years. FB on the PP again??????????? Terrible. Unless Price comes back 100% healthy and makes MT look like a genius then we are in trouble.

 

[Hoople]

You claimed we've had incompetent coaches. No we haven't. Three of the coaches we had went onto SC finals. One of them won the cup. No matter what spin you put on that, it happened.

If you're going to take away Therrien's presence in SC finals because he had Crosby & Malkin then you better dub Bylsma a bigger idiot then Therrien because with the same 2 players and at other times with a better team he missed not only the SC finals but the conference finals also. If i remember correctly he also managed not to win a single round in a year or two.

Therrien has shown he is a competent coach and if not an elite coach he is definitely in the next tier.

We have had our coaches go through a revolving door for the last decade or more. MB said he was going to bring stability to the franchise and he has done it. We are no longer the laughing stock of the league as we were in the last year of Gauthier's tenure. I'm willing to go the full extend of Therrien's contact which means another year.

Bylsma is not our coach.

 

[Habs Icing]

Bylsma is not our coach.

And yet many on this site wanted him instead of Therrien.

Many wanted Hartley and what exactly has he done for Calgary? Many want Laviolette. And he was fired from his last two jobs. Many want Boucher and what has he done? After he left his team they became a contender.

No one player can change a team's fortune; just as no one person can make that big a difference. Hockey is a team sport that involves the players, the coaching & scouting staff and management.

You take any of the other coaches I mentioned and place them in Therrien's place and I'll bet you the Habs wouldn't be in any better position. With some of the coaches I'd say they would be in a worse position. I know this because they were unable to perform miracles with the teams they were on. What makes you think they can do it here?

I believe in giving a person enough rope so he can either corral a bull or hang himself. I think we owe it to Therrien to give him his three years and then re-evaluate his tenure.

 

[habsfanatics*]

You claimed we've had incompetent coaches. No we haven't. Three of the coaches we had went onto SC finals. One of them won the cup. No matter what spin you put on that, it happened.

If you're going to take away Therrien's presence in SC finals because he had Crosby & Malkin then you better dub Bylsma a bigger idiot then Therrien because with the same 2 players and at other times with a better team he missed not only the SC finals but the conference finals also. If i remember correctly he also managed not to win a single round in a year or two.

Therrien has shown he is a competent coach and if not an elite coach he is definitely in the next tier.

We have had our coaches go through a revolving door for the last decade or more. MB said he was going to bring stability to the franchise and he has done it. We are no longer the laughing stock of the league as we were in the last year of Gauthier's tenure. I'm willing to go the full extend of Therrien's contact which means another year.

Demers won a cup and he was one of the worst we've ever had. Cito Gaston won a few World Series titles and he is actually a brutal manager knowing very little about in game strategy.

Teams sometimes win in spite of the coach.