Bruce Boudreau

[RandyHolt]

That is developing complaint of Bruce of mine, he didn't seem to work with his young players and develop their games. Now that said, I don't know if that is the standard for NHL coaches. Old dogs can learn new tricks it just takes longer.

Another complaint was that I suspect his players adopted BBs emotional ways, vs a Dale type that was an even keel approach. If Bruce is flying off the handle, what effect does that have on the players?

If Bruce is quick to dump his #1 goalie come playoff time someone should tell him logic would say he should be even quicker to dump the backup. Long before he is stuck in a game 7 with his #1 vet on the bench.

 

[g00n]

If Bruce is flying off the handle, what effect does that have on the players?

It depends on the coach. Some coaches I've played for have made it abundantly clear that they are the boss and you do what they say regardless of how they behave. The rules are not the same for coach and player. As a player you keep your **** together and do your job without being a jackass, leaving the coach to handle that kind of thing, worry about the refs, scream at the refs, etc.

With BB there's is definitely spillover. He doesn't draw a line the players don't cross. You could see it in 09 when the players were constantly getting pissed off about the officiating and getting that "here we go again" sense of the cards being stacked against them. It continued from there and was one of the reasons a disciplinarian was eventually brought in to replace him.

BB was the perfect coach to unleash the individual talents from the constipated Hanlon scheme. But he needs a perfect storm to succeed. I have a feeling BB will never put together a Cup winning team unless he lucks into the most talented All Star team ever, or finds a Captain or Assistant Coach that can do the dirty work for him and balance his fire.

 

[Raikkonen]

Double Nickle gets 20+ mins. Wow. How the f?

I think Muzzin got injured in the first or smth. I saw Schultz with Doughty for some shifts. Gone to sleep after the first period anyway.

 

[Capitals1974]

@cmasisak22: Semyon Varlamov was pulled at 22:13 after allowing 4 goals on 18 shots in Game 7 in 2009. Gibson? Pulled at 22:02. 4 goals on 18 shots. Wow.

Spooky.

Spooky indeed

 

[hb12xchamps]

Rolling with Gibson wore off pretty quick. You could tell the kid was extremely shaky and should have been pulled after the 2nd goal. The Kings are very good and could very well win the cup as long as they get by Chicago.

 

[marcel snapshot]

The tell on Gibson was the second goal (Lewis I think) that he let squirt through the pads in Game 6 that turned out to be the game-winner. That planted doubt for him and the Ducks - that goal alone was enough to make me think about going back to Hiller. Once doubt creeps into a guy that young and that inexperienced, cratering usually follows.

Schultz - just wow. He still looks Schultz-ish - but in the context of the Kings system his assets (reach, positioning) make him more effective and his flaws (footspeed, lack of physicality, occasional deer-in-headlights decision-making) aren't as conspicuous, because the Kings forwards don't strand their D the way the Caps do, and play a more physical and cohesive style.

 

[RandyHolt]

Why exactly is there so much resistance to the concept of coaches trying more than one goalie change in the playoffs? Coaches change goalies all year long.

I doubt the stats are there to support it. I believe it was Van and Luongo after getting yanked got back in and Van made it to the finals game 7. And I don't pin that loss on him, either. Otherwise, it seems to be a small sample size paired with countless failures by coaches like Bruce sticking to his one change.

Why does a coach turn to his clear cut backup come hell or high water, including in the face of consecutive losses, soft goals, untested work loads, etc.


About Sarge, naturally, George dumps him right when a major rule change no touch icing is implemented. That is so him. But Sarge never hustled when he was here, looked at Green like a dork to make him go get pounded / deal with every icing. I don't want a big DD man to hang his partner out to dry like that over and over. I still remember that playoff goal against, playing with Wideman, wideman jumps to catch a dump in at the blue, and misses, looks at Sarge, who is standing flat footed like an idiot, Wides races back to touch / contest. Sarge finally looligags down to the goal line as a goal was scored. That was so Sarge and that was the final straw for me.

 

[Mothra]

Why exactly is there so much resistance to the concept of coaches trying more than one goalie change in the playoffs? Coaches change goalies all year long.

I doubt the stats are there to support it. I believe it was Van and Luongo after getting yanked got back in and Van made it to the finals game 7. And I don't pin that loss on him, either. Otherwise, it seems to be a small sample size paired with countless failures by coaches like Bruce sticking to his one change.

People often talk of the loss to the Habs and how well Halak played....didnt He get yanked, then Price got yanked, then they went back to Halak?

 

[RandyHolt]

People often talk of the loss to the Habs and how well Halak played....didnt He get yanked, then Price got yanked, then they went back to Halak?

I am not sure but Price did get back in later versus Pitt and then Philly. Halak must have needed a break and it seems logical.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=85320671

So while many think one change is best, Montreal made 3 or 4 and by all opinions they exceeded expectations as an 8 seed doing that.

 

[BobRouse]

I am not sure but Price did get back in later versus Pitt and then Philly. Halak must have needed a break and it seems logical.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=85320671

So while many think one change is best, Montreal made 3 or 4 and by all opinions they exceeded expectations as an 8 seed doing that.

I remember Keenan always pulling goalies and putting them back in randomly. No one was safe from his wrath (outside of maybe Grant Fuhr that one year in St Louis)

Milbury loved lots of change too but it didn't get him very far.

Change for the sake of change isn't a good thing. It just happened to work that one year for Montreal

In a blackjack game you do not hit on a hard 17 even if the dealer is showing a face card. But lets say you do...and win....does that mean you should do that from now on?

No. Just means you got fortunate and the cards broke your way. It happens.

 

[PuqTalk]

The tell on Gibson was the second goal (Lewis I think) that he let squirt through the pads in Game 6 that turned out to be the game-winner. That planted doubt for him and the Ducks - that goal alone was enough to make me think about going back to Hiller. Once doubt creeps into a guy that young and that inexperienced, cratering usually follows.

That's exactly what happened unfortunately. It really ticks me off because Hiller did not play himself out of the net either... I honestly feel that he was the best option to go to in that series even though Andersen and Gibson had their moments. He was lights out when he played in the playoffs, but the confidence was already lost in him.

Who knows, maybe Boudreau rationalized (and maybe rightfully so) that Gibson and Andersen were in the immediate future plans and needed to experience it win or loss.

 

[DaDucks*]

As a ducks fan, I have noticed a trend of decline of physicality from players that were well known to play the game with an edge. Although the "hitting stats" suggest that we don't have a problem being physical, a recent argument on our boards came up whether the source of the problem is Bruce's system/coaching, or our players just not wanting to play a physical game. We have a very big, and occasionally dominate team that I believe is predicated on our greatest strength of overpowering the opposition physically. If you have seen our goal differential, and spread of 1 goal wins, I'm sure you can understand my frustration of my team not playing to their full capability.

Bruce has aired his frustrations about the team not hitting enough. Im just really confused on how our team is loaded with guys that loved to hit in the past, seem to have all conjointly taken a step back. I understand that Bruce's era in Washington was a pure finesse and highly oiled offensive machine, but one can only wonder if that is all he knows how to coach. I personally take his press conference complaints about the team not hitting with a grain of salt, whether or not the problem is his system, or the players tuning him out, is one in the same.

Any insight you guys have is appreciated thx

 

[hockeykicker]

BB style of play is effective when teams can skate up and down the ice and get a lot of shots off. Come playoff time, his style didnt work as teams shut down defensively and the caps got exposed year after year. (well the defense also was suspect). Washington had some grinders but were loaded with offensive guys. BB plan worked well with the hershey bears (caps ahl team) and the caps during the regular season. Its working for the ducks now too in the regular season so hes probably gonna keep that same system

You mention big tough guys, BB never really had those guys so they may be hard to use in his lots of offense ideas

 

[artilector]

In Washington, BB didn't really have the players to play that style, so I don't think one can deduce much. I don't think the Caps' grinders have played any differently really with the other coaches that came after BB. Only exception perhaps being Hunter, but that was more of a shot-blocking uptick.

Anyway, my feeling about that is that BB won't be the cause of a team becoming less physical -- but if it happens, it will be up to the players to get dialed in again. In Washington, once things started going south, BB seemed powerless to stop it, as far changing general team dynamics.

At the same time, not knowing the specifics, it wouldn't surprise me if a team like the Ducks was just saving itself for playoffs, no?

 

[DaDucks*]

In Washington, BB didn't really have the players to play that style, so I don't think one can deduce much. I don't think the Caps' grinders have played any differently really with the other coaches that came after BB. Only exception perhaps being Hunter, but that was more of a shot-blocking uptick.

Anyway, my feeling about that is that BB won't be the cause of a team becoming less physical -- but if it happens, it will be up to the players to get dialed in again. In Washington, once things started going south, BB seemed powerless to stop it, as far changing general team dynamics.

At the same time, not knowing the specifics, it wouldn't surprise me if a team like the Ducks was just saving itself for playoffs, no?

It would be one thing to have our downswing of physicality happen late in the year, but it has been theme all season. In cases like Beleskey, who thinks of himself of more of a scorer than a grinder now, there might be reason to believe that players that have benefited in BB's system have "evolved" into a more skilled game, leaving the physical game behind.

interesting, thx for the responses

 

[artilector]

[/B]

It would be one thing to have our downswing of physicality happen late in the year, but it has been theme all season. In cases like Beleskey, who thinks of himself of more of a scorer than a grinder now, there might be reason to believe that players that have benefited in BB's system have "evolved" into a more skilled game, leaving the physical game behind.

interesting, thx for the responses

Hmm... well, that does sound plausible. Although, I'm not sure it's a direct effect of BB, more like -- BB comes in, opens up the offense, team starts scoring more, grinders get goals, grinders start to think they are goal-scorers.

I don't know to what extent Anaheim's offense as a whole went up under BB.. Certainly, on the Caps, it did have an effect like that on a guy like Laich, IMO... But tbh, that seems to happen any time a grinder ends up in a position where he benefits from linemates/system that increases offensive production. It's possible that BB's system is more conducive to that effect than others..

 

[DaDucks*]

Hmm... well, that does sound plausible. Although, I'm not sure it's a direct effect of BB, more like -- BB comes in, opens up the offense, team starts scoring more, grinders get goals, grinders start to think they are goal-scorers.

I don't know to what extent Anaheim's offense as a whole went up under BB.. Certainly, on the Caps, it did have an effect like that on a guy like Laich, IMO... But tbh, that seems to happen any time a grinder ends up in a position where he benefits from linemates/system that increases offensive production. It's possible that BB's system is more conducive to that effect than others..

We led the NHL in goals last year and set a franchise record for goals scored. In the offseason, we traded for size over smaller skilled players to match against teams like the Kings , and Of Course, our offense declined this year. We recently added more offense at the deadline in Sekac, Fleischman and we have been chasing our own tail ever since. We have no identity, we don't even have set lines yet. Frustration with BB is starting to boil over.

 

[g00n]

Thread merged with previous thread with same title by ninja mod.

 

[Devil Dancer]

We led the NHL in goals last year and set a franchise record for goals scored. In the offseason, we traded for size over smaller skilled players to match against teams like the Kings , and Of Course, our offense declined this year. We recently added more offense at the deadline in Sekac, Fleischman and we have been chasing our own tail ever since. We have no identity, we don't even have set lines yet. Frustration with BB is starting to boil over.

The Caps went down a similar road, trying to get bigger to compete in the playoffs after disappointing post seasons. So far it hasn't done any good.

 

[txpd]

Hitting hurts. Players that hit in November hit less in March. Players that hit a lot at 22 hit less at 26.

 

[BobRouse]

Boudreau always stressed playing physical. He had some good quotes in his time with the Caps in that regard "13 hits. You're not going to win many games playing like that" or "I try to put a thumper on every line"

His very first year the Caps had the players like Brashear, Cooke, Bradley etc that played as such. Next year we had some guys too but in his last couple years not so much.

As the years went on it was the GM who replaced physical players with more finesse guys.

I don't believe Boudreau is anything but a proponent of physical play.

We led the NHL in goals last year and set a franchise record for goals scored. In the offseason, we traded for size over smaller skilled players to match against teams like the Kings , and Of Course, our offense declined this year. We recently added more offense at the deadline in Sekac, Fleischman and we have been chasing our own tail ever since. We have no identity, we don't even have set lines yet. Frustration with BB is starting to boil over.

Its like the goose that laid the golden egg. Bourdreau is a victim of his own success and the expectations he creates by turning decent rosters into president trophy contending teams.

The Ducks were in decline before Boudreau got there. In each of his full seasons since they have been top 3 in the NHL in terms of record.

Becareful what you wish for. If the Ducks bow out early in the playoffs then there is a good chance BB gets released. Ducks fans will celebrate. The next year the same Ducks team will struggle to make the playoffs and may miss them altogether thus exposing flaws in the roster as opposed to the coach who made the roster look better than it truly is.

 

[tycoonheart]

We led the NHL in goals last year and set a franchise record for goals scored. In the offseason, we traded for size over smaller skilled players to match against teams like the Kings , and Of Course, our offense declined this year. We recently added more offense at the deadline in Sekac, Fleischman and we have been chasing our own tail ever since. We have no identity, we don't even have set lines yet. Frustration with BB is starting to boil over.

My personal feelings on BB is that the guy is a terrible manager of players. He doesn't know the right things to say. It is why his message wore thin here, and why the guys tuned him out. He lost Ovi partly because I think he had absolutely no idea how to handle a star of his caliber. Eventually he lost the locker room. I think there is something to what I'm saying because Selanne came out and said similar things about Bruce last year. I wish Bruce well and I was hoping he would improve that aspect of coaching but everything I have read so far makes me think he's still the same old Bruce.

 

[BobRouse]

My personal feelings on BB is that the guy is a terrible manager of players. He doesn't know the right things to say. It is why his message wore thin here, and why the guys tuned him out. He lost Ovi partly because I think he had absolutely no idea how to handle a star of his caliber. Eventually he lost the locker room. I think there is something to what I'm saying because Selanne came out and said similar things about Bruce last year. I wish Bruce well and I was hoping he would improve that aspect of coaching but everything I have read so far makes me think he's still the same old Bruce.

I'm not so sure about this at all.

Our possession stats suggested otherwise prior to his departure. When he got fired and Hunter came aboard we REALLY went into the tank possession wise and it continued with Oates.

Just like the 8 game losing streak the year prior to his firing I think it was just a combo of the Caps not getting very good goaltending and the inevitable luls over the course of an 82 game season.

Ovechkin had his best years under Boudreau. Selanne was bitter at BB because he got scratched in the playoffs and a proud vet like him stands to never forget something like that. Based on what Ducks fans said at the time they completely agreed with Boudreau. Selanne was playing like crap and hurting the team.

 

[txpd]

I do think its funny that the Ducks have the best record in the NHL and their fans are complaining about the coach. "The team has no identity". Sure it does. "1st".

Only thing Boudreau is missing is playoff success. Whining about the regular season results, though.....

 

[tycoonheart]

I'm not so sure about this at all.

Our possession stats suggested otherwise prior to his departure. When he got fired and Hunter came aboard we REALLY went into the tank possession wise and it continued with Oates.

Just like the 8 game losing streak the year prior to his firing I think it was just a combo of the Caps not getting very good goaltending and the inevitable luls over the course of an 82 game season.

Ovechkin had his best years under Boudreau. Selanne was bitter at BB because he got scratched in the playoffs and a proud vet like him stands to never forget something like that. Based on what Ducks fans said at the time they completely agreed with Boudreau. Selanne was playing like crap and hurting the team.

All I remember is some of the worst stretch of hockey I've seen this team play. Weren't we on a 6 or so game losing streak when he was axed? Certainly looked like the team wasn't responding to Bruce. I don't think anyone disagreed that Bruce needed to be gone at that point.

As for Selanne... to me it sounded like he was more pissed off about Bruce not properly communicating with him. Which goes back to what I said about Bruce, that he is a terrible manager of players. We want all the players to be pros and understand everything, but athletes, in every sport, are fickle and need to be talked to like human beings.

One thing I like about Trotz, which I saw during the road to WC, was the fact that he is constantly talking to the players. The segment about how difficult it was to tell Chimmers that Trotz was gonna scratch him was a good one, then we see him actually taking the time to talk it out with him. Things like that matter to players.

Only thing Boudreau is missing is playoff success. Whining about the regular season results, though.....

Its a legitimate concern for a coach who hasn't gone past the 2nd round in the playoffs.