WJC: Bring back the bye to semifinals for the group winners!

[Canuck21t]

Of course it was a just result and Slovakia beat Finland fair and square. But sometimes "steals" do happen: the other side dominates, gets plenty more good scoring chances, controls the game and the pace, but just can't score to save their lives and the opponent punishes from the few chances they get.

In a series the dominant team would probably easily win but in a single game, steals do happen - and I'm not saying that it's not fair or undeserved, the opposite in fact, but single games are not always exact when measuring the strengths of the two sides...

Steals and surprises are part of any sport. To expect everything to work as on paper is ridiculous; that's why we play the games. It is utterly pathetic to whine about the steals and the unexpected because that's exactly what this thread is really about.

 

[lamini]

In a series the dominant team would probably easily win but in a single game, steals do happen - and I'm not saying that it's not fair or undeserved, the opposite in fact, but single games are not always exact when measuring the strengths of the two sides...

Yea, but even in best of 7 you have weak teams advancing thanks to hot goalie. You can't eliminate luck and the decision that remains is how much time you want to spend to reduce its impact...best of 3, best of 5....or just round robin where every team plays every team 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.... times?

 

[llwyd]

Steals and surprises are part of any sport. To expect everything to work as on paper is ridiculous; that's why we play the games. It is utterly pathetic to whine about the steals and the unexpected because that's exactly what this thread is really about.

Hey, hold your horses - I didn't realize that I "whined" about anything. I just said that regardless of the group table, as a Swede I would rather pick Slovakia than Finland. I don't think that's whining at all, especially as I specifically admitted that Slovakia beat Finland fair and square. I think many Swedes would agree with this opinion.

 

[llwyd]

Yea, but even in best of 7 you have weak teams advancing thanks to hot goalie. You can't eliminate luck and the decision that remains is how much time you want to spend to reduce its impact...best of 3, best of 5....or just round robin where every team plays every team 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.... times?

Nope, I absolutely wouldn't. Finland's success in the past tournaments is very much based on our capability of winning best of one games. But these short tournaments do give rather surprising playoff match-ups. I don't think it's a big problem but sometimes it's annoying to a team that has done especially well in its group to meet a strong team that has been coasting in its. Like, say, you win your tough group and get the USA in the quarters instead of being second and getting Denmark etc. etc. Just as an observation.

 

[FiLe]

Hey, hold your horses - I didn't realize that I "whined" about anything. I just said that regardless of the group table, as a Swede I would rather pick Slovakia than Finland. I don't think that's whining at all, especially as I specifically admitted that Slovakia beat Finland fair and square. I think many Swedes would agree with that opinion.

Most likely many would, and it's indeed no "whining" to admit that.

Calling for a change in the system or a chance to cherry-pick your opponent however, is. Sometimes the cards fall as they may and the draw may end up being unfavorable. The system still works well enough in the big picture that there is little reason to do things differently.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

s. I would rather play a team that has lost 3 out of 4 games (Finland) than a team that has lost 2 out of 4 (Slovakia).

Finland is miles better then Slovakia. Dominated that game just couldnt score.

 

[Tomas W]

Yes it does. It just makes me think that some Swedes fear Finland in this tournament. Have to say I like that.

We did eat some humble pie last tournament. Obviously each year got different rosters but I'm not going underestimate Finland. Both teams need to be at their best to get the win. The one that performce at 90% lose.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I have no idea how rare it is, but I proved it does occur and that it could potentially have been an issue in games in this tournament. Even if it wouldn't be a factor you should still see some sort of advantage in winning the group. As to the idea of choosing your opponent, it's real simple; winner of group A would have the option to choose from the two lowest seeded teams in group B who have advanced to the QF's, i.e 3 and 4. The winner from group B would get to choose from the two lowest seeded teams in group A. Is it perfect? No, but it's an improvement.

unfair to Slovakia(or any team who finishes 3rd and gets picked by the 1 team). They beat Finland fair and square so they get rewarded by... facing the same team they would have faced if they lost. Sounds pretty stupid to me.

 

[FinRuutu]

If I was a Swede (thank god that I'm not) I would be damn happy to get a chance to revenge the last years game.

Swedes needs to score 1 goal and then take penalties until the game ends.

 

[FiLe]

Swedes needs to score 1 goal and then take penalties until the game ends.

Two if they wish to end it before SO.

 

[Scotty B]

You certainly won't see any flag burning in the actually inhabited parts of Finland. They have their mostly harmless border rivalry up in Tornedalen and these sort of idiotic visits happen on both sides.

Hope Suomi brings more fire power than we saw in round robin. Hope it turns into a real barn burner. Hope they crash net at every opportunity, get into lots of scrums after whistle, plus park a man fearlessly in front of nettie on pp ( steada just doing the ole & feebly waving stick as puck sails past ). In short, they gotta score greasy goals today, and really get into Soderstrom's kitchen. Much like our Boyz did to Divestrom ( or whatever his name was? ) in 2009, which totally discombobulated Tres Kronor.

Gonna be cheering heartily for Suomi + Yanks. All things being equal, I would never cheer for Yellow-Bellies or CCCP (unless their winning somehow worked in Canada's favor, which only happens once in a blue moon )

 

[aphyro]

Hope Suomi brings more fire power than we saw in round robin. Hope it turns into a real barn burner. Hope they crash net at every opportunity, get into lots of scrums after whistle, plus park a man fearlessly in front of nettie on pp ( steada just doing the ole & feebly waving stick as puck sails past ). In short, they gotta score greasy goals today, and really get into Soderstrom's kitchen. Much like our Boyz did to Divestrom ( or whatever his name was? ) in 2009, which totally discombobulated Tres Kronor.

Gonna be cheering heartily for Suomi + Yanks. All things being equal, I would never cheer for Yellow-Bellies or CCCP ( unless it somehow works in Canada's favor, which only happens once in a blue moon )

Wow was longtime it was called CCCP... but they atleast don't play dirty hockey with runing over goalies

or slash your best players over the ankel to break their bones

 

[Slimmy]

unfair to Slovakia(or any team who finishes 3rd and gets picked by the 1 team). They beat Finland fair and square so they get rewarded by... facing the same team they would have faced if they lost. Sounds pretty stupid to me.

And Sweden knew they would most likely get Finland in the QF's if they beat Russia. They lose they get Slovakia. Still think that's an issue.

 

[Slimmy]

That would make round robin games even less important, with exception of 1v2 and 4v5. After 2 losses to 1, they have no incentive to bother with other games, since even if they finish 4th there's no risk of them playing 1st, they'll always play second easiest team remaining. And 4th has incentive only in game against 5th, since they'd play 1st in QF even if they defeat 2nd or 3rd.

How is it less important how you finish? 1'st placed team gets to pick from 3-4. 2'nd placed team get ether of 3-4 depending on who 1 picked. The incentive is to finish as nr1 to get to pick or nr2 to not get picked and have an easier opponent in the QF's. 3-4 is QF spot. It's very difficult to get a system where every game counts. Meaningless games to one team could be a do or die game for the other team.

Edit: also about Russia being disinterrested in game against Cze...so games where team that's better on paper played below what's expected shouldn't count? should this game be replayed? who would judge that team played up to its potential or that the game shouldn't count?

Where did I ever say that?? My point is that with the current system scenarios occur where it's more favorable to lose than to win. We've seen teams tank in the past and I would like to avoid such a scenario in future tournaments. I never said I had a perfect solution. I'd like to see one where everyone's happy.

 

[Scotty B]

Wow was longtime it was called CCCP... but they atleast don't play dirty hockey with runing over goalies

or slash your best players over the ankel to break their bones

CCCP'ers never forget a slight ( Ditto 3Kr's, eg R Niedermayer on Forsberg ). Broken ankle is no biggee, just put a bandage on it, ur good to go

Bobbly Baun scored game winning goal, in OT, game 6, of Stanley Cup finals, with a BROKEN LEG

 

[Trap Jesus]

A 4-game round robin where 4 of 5 teams in the group qualify for a quarterfinal spot is a little ridiculous IMO. While I wasn't exactly the biggest fan of a team getting a bye in this short of a tournament, it was better than this.

 

[helicecopter]

Ok, so not let's forget the score and just look at how the game is played. Let's use judged to determine which teams deserves more no matter who scored more.

ok what? nothing I said implied the crap you're suggesting lol

 

[Urbanskog]

A 4-game round robin where 4 of 5 teams in the group qualify for a quarterfinal spot is a little ridiculous IMO. While I wasn't exactly the biggest fan of a team getting a bye in this short of a tournament, it was better than this.

Just add more teams.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Sitting and waiting is worse. I like it the way it is.

If you can't beat the weakest team from the other pool, you have no business winning the tournament anyway.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Just add more teams.

Tough to do that in hockey with such a shallow talent pool though (at least in terms of top teams compared to teams outside of the top 10). Maybe they could stretch it to 12 teams and have 3 groups of 4 like they do in the Olympics though (although don't have every team qualify for the playoff round).

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Tough to do that in hockey with such a shallow talent pool though (at least in terms of top teams compared to teams outside of the top 10). Maybe they could stretch it to 12 teams and have 3 groups of 4 like they do in the Olympics though (although don't have every team qualify for the playoff round).

I think they could stretch it to 12.

I do see improvement around the world. At least we have other nations competing to get into the top 10 so that countries like Japan don't qualify anymore. That was a rough year for them with Forsberg, etc. We won't see a team that bad in the top 12 anymore.

 

[Urbanskog]

Tough to do that in hockey with such a shallow talent pool though (at least in terms of top teams compared to teams outside of the top 10). Maybe they could stretch it to 12 teams and have 3 groups of 4 like they do in the Olympics though (although don't have every team qualify for the playoff round).

Expansion develops the smaller hockey nations, and it's not like Belarus, Norway or Latvia would be blown out.

 

[aphyro]

CCCP'ers never forget a slight ( Ditto 3Kr's, eg R Niedermayer on Forsberg ). Broken ankle is no biggee, just put a bandage on it, ur good to go

Bobbly Baun scored game winning goal, in OT, game 6, of Stanley Cup finals, with a BROKEN LEG

wow you canadians... so Edlers hit on Staal was okay? or is it everytime Canada do dirty hits it's "fair" and MAN UP... and when other counterys do the same it's just dirty playing hockey!

 

[lamini]

How is it less important how you finish? 1'st placed team gets to pick from 3-4. 2'nd placed team get ether of 3-4 depending on who 1 picked. The incentive is to finish as nr1 to get to pick or nr2 to not get picked and have an easier opponent in the QF's.

Well, lets say Russia finishes 2nd...they get 2nd weakest team . If they finish 3rd or 4th, there's no way Canada chooses them over CZE and DEN, so finishing anywhere between 2-4 is same for them.

Now Denmark...for them it's either relegation or 1st team from other group. The chance they surprise 2 strong teams is slim, and even if they manage to finish 3rd they are guaranteed to play against 1st team from other group.

 

[cyris]

Wow was longtime it was called CCCP... but they atleast don't play dirty hockey with runing over goalies

or slash your best players over the ankel to break their bones

There was plenty of dirty play on both sides of the summit series. Like Boris Mikhailov kicking and cutting Gary Bergman.

But yea only Canadians play dirty hockey.