1967th Heaven
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- Aug 31, 2012
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Brian Leetch all-time ranking among Defensemen
- Thread starter 1967th Heaven
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He probably deserved a bit more hardware. Imagine if, somehow, Leetch and Listrom were switched. Maybe Leetch walks away with four or five Norris trophies.
unfortunately the HOH all-time lists arent visible anymore because of the migration.... I suspect he was around 20-25 behind the likes of: Chelios, MacInnis, Pronger, Stevens.... was somewhere around Niedermayer.
People thinking hes top 10, remember there was LOADS of hockey before 1990. I mean off the top of my head...
Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Lidstrom
Fetisov
Shore
Potvin
Robinson
Park
Coffey
Kelly
Chelios
Clancy
Horton
MacInnis
Pronger
Stevens
Pilotte
thats 18
People thinking hes top 10, remember there was LOADS of hockey before 1990. I mean off the top of my head...
Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Lidstrom
Fetisov
Shore
Potvin
Robinson
Park
Coffey
Kelly
Chelios
Clancy
Horton
MacInnis
Pronger
Stevens
Pilotte
thats 18
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Switched what, teams? Please.... If Leetch was good enough to win 4 Norrses, he wouldve won 4 Norrises.
Not My Tempo
Registered User
I never really got a chance to see a lot of these guys, but I think Leetch was better than Stevens
yeah. Ill say thats arguable, but Leetch wasnt exactly great defensively. He had a great peak/prime, Ill give him that. Stevens had a better complete career, inculding 3 Cups as the Devils' best Dman (no knock to Nieds).
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
I'm a fan of a Leetch.
He really fell off after 1997 for some reason. He was very good at his best and had a great playoff run in 1994.
I'd say he's somewhere in the 15-25 range all-time - closer to 20th than to 25th.
He really fell off after 1997 for some reason. He was very good at his best and had a great playoff run in 1994.
I'd say he's somewhere in the 15-25 range all-time - closer to 20th than to 25th.
Absolute peak-wise? Arguable. Overall career? Absolutely not. Steven had the ability to put up better offensive numbers than he did in the mid 90s to 000s, but with likes of Niedermayer, Rafalski, and company, Stevens embraced the shutdown role while sacrificing offensive numbers. Defensively, they're not even close.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
23rd:
| 1. | Bobby Orr | 1966-1979 (CAN) |
| 2. | Doug Harvey | 1947-1969 (CAN) |
| 3. | Raymond Bourque | 1979-2001 (CAN) |
| 4. | Eddie Shore | 1924-1944 (CAN) |
| 5. | Nicklas Lidström | 1991- (SWE) |
| 6. | Denis Potvin | 1973-1988 (CAN) |
| 7. | Leonard 'Red' Kelly | 1947-1967 (CAN) |
| 8. | Viacheslav Fetisov | 1974-1998 (RUS) |
| 9. | Larry Robinson | 1972-1992 (CAN) |
| 10. | Chris Chelios | 1983-2010 (USA) |
| 11. | Brad Park | 1968-1985 (CAN) |
| 12. | Francis 'King' Clancy | 1921-1937 (CAN) |
| 13. | Paul Coffey | 1980-2001 (CAN) |
| 14. | Pierre Pilote | 1955-1969 (CAN) |
| 15. | Sprague Cleghorn | 1910-1928 (CAN) |
| 16. | Earl Seibert | 1931-1946 (CAN) |
| 17. | Tim Horton | 1949-1974 (CAN) |
| 18. | Al MacInnis | 1981-2004 (CAN) |
| 19. | Scott Stevens | 1982-2004 (CAN) |
| 20. | Chris Pronger | 1994- (CAN) |
| 21. | Bill Gadsby | 1946-1966 (CAN) |
| 22. | Börje Salming | 1970-1993 (SWE) |
| 23. | Brian Leetch | 1987-2006 (USA) |
| 24. | Aubrey 'Dit' Clapper | 1927-1947 (CAN) |
| 25. | Valeri Vasiliev | 1966-1984 (RUS) |
| 26. | Mark Howe | 1973-1995 (USA) |
| 26. | Bill Quackenbush | 1942-1956 (CAN) |
| 28. | Serge Savard | 1966-1983 (CAN) |
| 29. | Rod Langway | 1977-1993 (USA) |
| 30. | Eddie Gerard | 1913-1923 (CAN) |
| 31. | Jack Stewart | 1938-1952 (CAN) |
| 32. | Guy Lapointe | 1968-1984 (CAN) |
| 33. | Scott Niedermayer | 1992-2010 (CAN) |
| 34. | Marcel Pronovost | 1950-1970 (CAN) |
| 35. | Lionel Conacher | 1925-1937 (CAN) |
| 36. | William 'Hod' Stuart | 1902-1907 (CAN) |
| 37. | Ivan 'Ching' Johnson | 1926-1938 (CAN) |
| 38. | Jacques Laperriere | 1962-1974 (CAN) |
| 39. | Alexei Kasatonov | 1976-1997 (RUS) |
| 40. | Jean-Claude Tremblay | 1960-1979 (CAN) |
| 41. | Ernest 'Moose' Johnson | 1905-1931 (CAN) |
| 42. | Zdeno Chara | 1998- (SLK) |
| 43. | Ebbie Goodfellow | 1929-1943 (CAN) |
| 44. | Rob Blake | 1990-2010 (CAN) |
| 45. | Emile 'Butch' Bouchard | 1941-1956 (CAN) |
| 46. | Carl Brewer | 1958-1980 (CAN) |
| 47. | Albert 'Babe' Siebert | 1925-1939 (CAN) |
| 48. | Georges 'Buck' Boucher | 1915-1932 (CAN) |
| 49. | Jan Suchy | 1963-1983 (CZE) |
| 50. | Larry Murphy | 1980-2001 (CAN) |
| 51. | Ken Reardon | 1940-1950 (CAN) |
| 52. | Tom Johnson | 1950-1965 (CAN) |
| 53. | Lester Patrick | 1903-1927 (CAN) |
| 54. | Art Coulter | 1932-1942 (CAN) |
| 55. | Doug Wilson | 1977-1993 (CAN) |
| 56. | Sylvio Mantha | 1923-1936 (CAN) |
| 57. | Harry Cameron | 1912-1926 (CAN) |
| 58. | Frantisek Pospisil | 1961-1978 (CZE) |
| 59. | Allan Stanley | 1948-1969 (CAN) |
| 60. | Harvey Pulford | 1893-1908 (CAN) |
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Cotton
Registered User
- May 13, 2013
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Leetch was very very good. Between 1991 and 1997 he was definitely one of the top 5 defensemen in the league. Outstanding skater and puck mover, brilliant passer, excellent instincts. He was the X factor for that ‘94 Rangers team. Seemed to control the play every time he was on the ice. He’s actually one of my all-time favorite players, as a fellow defenseman his playing style is the one I most try to emulate. I’d say he’s a top 15 defender all time, but I’m probably biased
newfy
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- Jul 28, 2010
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Lol if he switched teams he wouldnt automatically develop the defensive game Lidstrom had
djboos22
Aho (insert pun)
13-16
I mean being the Rangers best franchise player has to mean something right?
P.S. this is coming from a guy in his 30s who never really saw him play.
I mean being the Rangers best franchise player has to mean something right?
P.S. this is coming from a guy in his 30s who never really saw him play.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
But if he won a bunch of Cups, he would have automatically developed the reputation.
Not to take anything away from Lidstrom at all (he deserved his reputation) but defensive play is extremely reputation-based and reputation is based almost entirely on winning.
Agent Zub
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2015
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meh Lidstrom came into the league at the prime of Steve Yzerman and Sergei Fedorov and after that through the prime of Datsyuk and Zetterberg not to mention a number of other HHOF players sprinkled in.
I dont think a star defenceman aside from Coffey has played with so many Hall of Famers throughout their careers.
Norris trophies have a lot to do with a great defenceman being on a good to great team. Otherwise its almost impossible to win.
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Its not a coincidence the Wings were a bad team pre and post-Lidstrom, and were practically a top 3 seed EVERY year with Lidstrom.
As for the Norris winners being on "good teams", you could easily say that for the Hart, Art Ross, Vezina, and probably Selke too.
How the Wings fared before and after is irrelevant to the amount of talent on the team while Lidstrom was on the team though. He was obviously an awesome player, but having that much talent around him also meant he could play his game without overextending himself. On a lesser team it's unlikely he would be able to put up the same point totals while playing as well defensively, because he would have to take more risks offensively with less talent in front of him. We saw this a bit in '04, where the Wings lost a lot of talent and many Wings fans seem to think Lidstrom was trying to do too much instead of playing his game, which resulted in a poor season with both lower point totals and an uneven defensive performance by his standards. You'll often see this with other elite defensemen on weaker teams (like Doughty recently), and it probably hurt Leetch in the second half of his career.
In '01 for instance, he had 79 points, which led all defensemen as well as a bad Rangers team in scoring, which was 8 more points than Lidstrom and 20 more points than any other defenseman, yet he only finished 5th in Norris voting because his defensive reputation took a hit and he finished -18 on the year. Yet @Machinehead has made a post in the past breaking down that plus minus, that it's due to shorthanded and empty net goals against and that the Rangers were a far better team at ES with Leetch on the ice.
I don't know if Leetch would have or deserved to win any more Norris trophies if he played for a better team in the second half of his career, but I think his career would undoubtedly be seen as better.
Was it really a big advantage though? Leetch was much better at age 20, but Karlsson won the Norris at 21
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