Brendan Shanahan Versus Luc Robitaille

[GlitchMarner]

Just vote for the better player, taking into account peak, prime, longevity, talent, accomplishments, awards etc.

Start of round two.



Bracket A:


Elias (4-1: defeated Hejduk, Naslund, Tkachuk and Recchi; lost to Alfredsson in round one. 0-1 in round two: lost to Fleury))
Fleury (4-0: defeated Kovalev, Marleau, Roberts and LeClair in round one. 1-0 in round two: defeated Elias)

Palffy (4-1: defeated Bondra, Nolan, Demitra and Damphousse; lost to Robitaille in round one. 0-1 in round two: lost to Naslund))
Naslund (4-2: defeated Bondra, Bertuzzi, Kovalev and Demitra; lost to Alfredsson and Elias in round one. 1-0 in round two: defeated Palffy)

Hossa (3-2: defeated Recchi, Tkachuk and Mogilny, received a bye; lost to Robitaille and Shanahan)
Alfredsson (4-0: defeated Naslund, Hejduk, Elias and Marleau)

Robitaille (4-0: defeated Hossa, Palffy, Recchi and Brind'Amour)
Shanahan (4-0: defeated Tkachuk, Recchi, Hossa and Mogilny)



Eliminated players:

Nolan (0-4: lost to LeClair, Bondra, Palffy and Whitney)
Allison (0-4: lost to Zhamnov, Tanguay, Yashin and Smyth)
Recchi (1-4: defeated Mogilny; lost to Shanahan, Robitaille, Hossa and Elias)
Amonte (1-4: defeated Gagne; lost to LeClair, Hejduk, Roberts and Whitney)
Gagne (1-4: defeated Smyth; lost to Amonte, Zhamnov, Yashin and Tanguay)
Bertuzzi (1-4: defeated Whitney; lost to Roberts, Marleau, Naslund and Brind'Amour)
Smyth (1-4: defeated Allison; lost to Roberts, Gagne, Whitney and Weight)
Hejduk (2-4: defeated Amonte and Tanguay; lost to Elias, Alfredsson, Bondra and Kovalev)
Tanguay (2-4: defeated Allison and Gagne; lost to Marleau, Weight, Hejduk and Zhamnov)
Roberts (3-4: defeated Smyth, Bertuzzi and Amonte; lost to Fleury, Marleau, Koivu and LeClair)
Tkachuk (3-4: defeated Demitra, LeClair and Weight; lost to Shanahan, Hossa, Elias and Mogilny)
Yashin (3-4: defeated Allison, Gagne and Zhamnov; lost to Demitra, Koivu, Damphousse and Weight)
Whitney (3-4: defeated Smyth, Nolan and Amonte; lost to Bertuzzi, Mogilny, Bondra and Zhamnov)
Koivu (3-4: defeated Yashin, Zhamnov and Roberts; lost to Weight, Damphousse, Demitra and Brind'Amour)
Marleau (3-4: defeated Tanguay, Bertuzzi and Roberts; lost to Fleury, Alfredsson, Mogilny and Damphousse)
Demitra (3-4: defeated Yashin, Zhamnov and Koivu; lost to Tkachuk, Palffy, Naslund and Bondra)

Click to read more...

 

[SotasicA]

Both scored a ton of goals. But I never saw Luc punch people in the face.

Shanny.

 

[Felidae]

Here's the obligatory statistical comparison

Robitaille

Points

1987-88 NHL 111 (5th)

1988-89 NHL 98 (10th)

1991-92 NHL 107 (5th)

1992-93 NHL 125 (9th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

PPG

1987-88 NHL 1.39 (9th)

1991-92 NHL 1.34 (8th)

1992-93 NHL 1.49 (10th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Goals

1986-87 NHL 45 (9th)

1987-88 NHL 53 (4th)

1988-89 NHL 46 (10th)

1989-90 NHL 52 (6th)

1990-91 NHL 45 (7th)

1991-92 NHL 44 (7th)

1992-93 NHL 63 (4th)

1998-99 NHL 39 (10th)

1999-00 NHL 36 (9th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

GPG

1987-88 NHL 0.66 (7th)

1989-90 NHL 0.65 (8th)

1990-91 NHL 0.59 (8th)

1992-93 NHL 0.75 (5th)

1999-00 NHL 0.51 (7th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Assists
1991-92 NHL 63 (10th)



Brendan Shanahan

Hart finishes: 9, 15, 16, 19

Selke finishes: 43, 65


Points
1993-94 NHL 102 (8th)
1996-97 NHL 88 (10th)

Goals

1993-94 NHL 52 (5th)

1996-97 NHL 47 (6th)

1999-00 NHL 41 (6th)

2001-02 NHL 37 (9th)

2005-06 NHL 40 (10th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

GPG

1992-93 NHL 0.72 (7th)

1993-94 NHL 0.64 (8th)

1996-97 NHL 0.58 (10th)

1999-00 NHL 0.53 (5th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Well, Robitaille was clearly a more consistently elite goal scorer and point producer with higher peaks as well. In spite of this however, Robitaille has no hart consideration in comparison. I'd surmise that to be attributed to Gretzky's arrival in LA during Robitaille's most productive years. On the contrary, Shanahan did receive minimal hart consideration but surprisingly his highest hart finishes weren't during his most offensively productive years, they were on his tenure with detroit. He was also known for being quite a physical player to my knowledge, so my best guess is that contributed to his hart finishes as well.

Anyways, another close poll imo. I think selecting whomever is determined by how much you attribute Robitaille's higher point production to Gretzky, and whether you think Shanahan's physicality compensates for Robitaille's consistency in goalscoring.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Here's the obligatory statistical comparison


Well, Robitaille was clearly a more consistently elite goal scorer and point producer with higher peaks as well. In spite of this however, Robitaille has no hart consideration in comparison. I'd surmise that to be attributed to Gretzky's arrival in LA during Robitaille's most productive years. On the contrary, Shanahan did receive minimal hart consideration but surprisingly his highest hart finishes weren't during his most offensively productive years, they were on his tenure with detroit. He was also known for being quite a physical player to my knowledge, so my best guess is that contributed to his hart finishes as well.

Anyways, another close poll imo. I think selecting whomever is determined by how much you attribute Robitaille's higher point production to Gretzky, and whether you think Shanahan's physicality compensates for Robitaille's consistency in goalscoring.

While playing with Gretzky was always a luxury, Robitaille did prove that he could produce without him.

In 1987 (his rookie season), he finished ninth in goals and won the Calder. The following season, he finished fifth in points in the NHL and fourth in goals.

Then later in his career, he placed in the top ten for goals in both '99 and '00.

In 1993, Gretzky missed about half the season and Luc still finished in the top five for goals and in the top ten for points.


Anyway, I think that for a single game, I'd rather have Shanahan in beast mode than Robitaille at his best. I've heard accounts of how much of a force Shanahan was when he was "on" and about how hard he was to contain. For a playoff run, I'd probably want Shanny as well.

However, I do think Robitaille was a better offensive player regardless of the Gretzky effect.

I'll go with Shanahan because of his more complete game and the facts that he helped vault the Wings to the next level and played a greater role in DET's Cup win in 2002 than Robitaille did, but this is a tough call and I can certainly see an argument for Robitaille.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I agree that it's a close comparison. I keep on going back and forth.

Robitaille has a better offensive prime. He has 10 of the top 14 regular seasons between them (measured by where they ranked in the scoring race). That's a huge advantage.

The reality is they played the same position, and their careers overlapped almost perfectly (Robitaille started one year earlier, and Shanahan played 2.5 years later). Robitaille was named best player at his position 5 times, second-best 3 times, and third-best once (nine times total). Shanahan was named best player at that same position twice, second-best once, and third-best twice (five times total). That's another huge advantage for Robitaille.

On the other hand, Shanahan gets a lot of credit (and rightfully so) for being one the key players that put the Red Wings over the top during their quest for the Stanley Cup. At a first glance, Robitaille appears to have the better playoff numbers (0.80 PPG vs 0.73 PPG). But Shanahan played many more games when he was past his prime. Their numbers are very close if you stop at age 35. That obviously excludes the physical element that Shanahan brought.

It's a strike against Robitaille that he never got a single Hart trophy vote during his entire career. He might even be the best player in NHL history to get zero Hart consideration (among players who spent most/all of their careers in the NHL - so this excludes Makarov, Fetisov, etc). Shanahan didn't get very much either, but at least he garnered votes four different times, peaking at 9th overall (and 6th among forwards) in 2002.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Shanahan takes it.

 

[Statto]

I didn’t vote and I’m a Kings fan so I happily admit to some bias. I like both players and Shanahan was always a favourite non-King player of mine.

However I’d take Robitaille. The guy not only didn’t need Gretzky to produce he didn’t need anyone of note. The guy produced goals out of nothing constantly. There’s a reason he was called ‘lucky luc’. Right in the middle of the dead puck era he scored 39+35 in 82 games. He had more goals than anyone had points for the Kings and most of that season his Centre was Josef Stumpel. At 33 yrs old he carried that team almost on his own. Apart from one short stint he was a consistently reliable scorer.

I think people forget how good he was as he went about his work quietly with no pomp or fuss. Until Ovi came along he was the best LW I had seen in hockey. I start watching the game 33 years ago.