Bravo Benning. The D is pretty much rebuilt.

[Hit the post]

Juolevi is closer to OEL than Hamhuis

In a few years - having "another Hamhuis" is hardly a bad thing in any event.

 

[Pavel96]

In a few years - having "another Hamhuis" is hardly a bad thing in any event.

Haven't heard how bad it is. Just keep hearing how much better it would have been had we not reached for this pick.

Can we really compare Virtanen to Tkachuck? Seems like we reached for Virtanen and Tkachuck would have 'fallen' to us.

 

[Wisp]

Juolevi is closer to OEL than Hamhuis

are you fantasising or just being optimistic? hamhuis was quite the dynamic scorer in his CHL draft year himself.

Compare the two's draft year.

WHL 62 13 46 59
OHL 57 9 33 42

Pretty similar. Good CHL scoring for D means NHL calibre puck moving. Most of the guys we think as "Stay at home" (Hamonic, Vlasic, Hamhuis) in the NHL were CHL scorers.

I think OEL is a little optimistic. Hamhuis calibre seems about right. And we'd be lucky if he was - Hamhuis was a top pairing, shut down d-man for a long time.

 

[Raistlin]

This is so baseless. McKenzie had Juolevi as the consensus #6 pick and 9 out of 10 scouts he surveyed had him going in the top 10. The TSN crew on NBC stated that Calgary liked Juolevi and Tkachuk. There was no trading down and getting the same player. I mentioned this already. Why do you keep repeating your points without looking into it or providing support?

the TSN crew that also said Edmonton was going to take a D at #3? Right after Chia said there are no #1D in the draft? Why would any GM do that to the confidence of his ideal top pick by imposing a ceiling on them? Oh wait, Benning and his always yapping mouth said the same thing! Imagine how Olli feels when he discovers his new GM clearly does not see greatness in him?
Most posters know that Juolevi is a good player, but we are lacking everywhere, and our only offensive engines are 36, we have a relatively young D core that is serviceable after the Gudbranson deal. Now we have exactly 1 possibly elite offensive option in Boeser. That's it. The only way towards respectability for our forwards is by signing Stamkos, good luck doing that with 28 other teams eyeing the same carrot.

In this situation, we need BPA, and clearly, no matter what media says other teams are favoring, Juolevi is NOT BPA. You take an Elite forward, which is more projectable and develops quicker. Or you do a trade and maximize your assets, good GMs make it happen consistently, moving contracts was supposed to be extremely hard, you didn't see Holland saddled with Datsyuk's contract now? what did Benning promise after completely botching the TDL and trading #33? He's going to recoup draft picks today, he sure changed his tune pretty quickly.

Clearly, Benning tries to do all that, and clearly he fails to do so despite his best efforts. There are some people that is honest and trusting, those people manage ice cream trucks and gets all the kids' love. Unfortunately, you are competing with 30 other GMs that are smart and tactical, in a cutthroat corporate environment where every advantage has to be immediately seized, you cannot afford to be simple Jack. FINE, be true to yourself and stay out of the fray and draft yourself a powerhouse, like Poile, Holland, McPhee, but for gods sake, stop telling everyone about your simple plans!!! OMG, how did we go from Gillis the guy that tries to screw everyone, to Dim Jim? Is Aqua blind? Or does he simply want to marionette everything from the dark and is content with his dummy management?

As a passionate fan, we see the best way forward is a complete rebuild. So no, management doesn't want that, okay, retool it is, but... you need deft management of your resources to accomplish a feat like that. How are you going to manage a retool with a fool at the helm making mistakes, revealing your plans and missing opportunities? All these thousand cuts kill your fanbase in such an agonizing way that just wilts your passion like creeping gangrene. Whats left are fans that think our D is rebuilt after adding a potential #2D down the line, instead of a franchise guy which was within reach after the season. Its. Just. Beyond. Frustrating.

 

[Raistlin]

are you fantasising or just being optimistic? hamhuis was quite the dynamic scorer in his CHL draft year himself.

Compare the two's draft year.

WHL 62 13 46 59
OHL 57 9 33 42

Pretty similar. Good CHL scoring for D means NHL calibre puck moving. Most of the guys we think as "Stay at home" (Hamonic, Vlasic, Hamhuis) in the NHL were CHL scorers.

I think OEL is a little optimistic. Hamhuis calibre seems about right. And we'd be lucky if he was - Hamhuis was a top pairing, shut down d-man for a long time.

and FYI, Boogaard is the only NHL talent on that cougars team, no Dvorak, no Tkachuk and certainly no Marner. Hammer was picked #12, not top 5.

 

[Mad Brills*]

ok, and they have few scoring prospects

 

[iFan]

Not at all. You're wrong. Drafting Tkachuk would have given us that elite forward prospect and elite scorer that we desperately need. Instead we take a defenseman who's tools project as a Dan Hamhuis.

Glad you prefer building around second pairing defensemen rather than top line forwards though. Sure-fire way to keep the team in the basement.

Yes we should follow the Oilers method... Build with forwards and forget about the D.

 

[ahmon]

Cant really use hamhuis numbers in the chl to say juolevi only has his upside.


Hamhuis scored like seth jones in the chl. Hell ekblad put up similar numbers.

Ds develops differently. The positive is the hockey sense.

Juolevi is really really smart.

 

[iFan]

It's interesting...

We draft Horvat and fans *****
We draft Virtanen and fans *****
We draft Juolevi and fans *****

Fans ***** that we need a big 2 way centre with leadership and top line potential (Horvat)
Fans ***** that we need a offensive power forward forward (Virtanen)
Fans ***** that we need a potential top pairing D man that can do it all (Juolevi)

All three of them have great potential let them develop and let's see what they can be

 

[Hit the post]

It's interesting...

We draft Horvat and fans *****
We draft Virtanen and fans *****
We draft Juolevi and fans *****

Fans ***** that we need a big 2 way centre with leadership and top line potential (Horvat)
Fans ***** that we need a offensive power forward forward (Virtanen)
Fans ***** that we need a potential top pairing D man that can do it all (Juolevi)

All three of them have great potential let them develop and let's see what they can be

Not interesting with respect to Horvat considering who we gave up to get that pick (Vezina capable Schneider). It's to be expected.

With Juolevi - it's to be expected (given the anti-Benning bias of which I will admit I have - though hardly without reason).

 

[ugghhh]

Since the lockout here are the top selected Ds. If a defenseman was taken first overall I will add the 2nd defenseman taken in the same draft.

2005 - Brian Lee 9th overall
2006 - Erik Johnson 1st overall, Ty Wishart 16th overall
2007 - Thomas Hickey 4th overall
2008 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2009 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2010 - Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall
2011 - Adam Larsson 4th overall
2012 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2013 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2014 - Aaron Ekblad 1st overall, Haydn Fleury 7th overall
2015 - Noah Hanifin 5th overall
2016 - Olli Juolevi 5th overall

So given the history of the last 11 years. Knowing this draft not hyped up as a dmen draft as it were in 2008 and 2012, nor was there a dmen contending for 1st overall at any point during the draft year as it were in 2006, 2009, 2013 we're looking at Juolevi being somewhere here:

Brian Lee
Ty Wishart
Thomas Hickey
Erik Gudbranson
Adam Larsson
Haydn Fleury
Noah Hanifin

This is possibly the most skewed analysis I've seen this month.. and that includes **** from reddit

 

[Yossarian54]

It's interesting...

We draft Horvat and fans *****
We draft Virtanen and fans *****
We draft Juolevi and fans *****

Fans ***** that we need a big 2 way centre with leadership and top line potential (Horvat)
Fans ***** that we need a offensive power forward forward (Virtanen)
Fans ***** that we need a potential top pairing D man that can do it all (Juolevi)

All three of them have great potential let them develop and let's see what they can be

I think you're going to run into issues if you characterise the 'fans' as having one specific reaction to everything.

For instance, I quite liked the Schneider trade and Horvat draft, hated the Virtanen pick, and am wholly ambivalent on the Juolevi pick.

So demanding consistency of message from a group of people who don't have wholly concordant opinions... When you're misrepresenting some of their views in the first place. Yeah, nah.

But sure, I agree with your last sentence.

 

[CurtisLoew]

Remember that time Jim Benning inherited a decent D-core in 2014? Then he proceeded to trade Garrison for a 2nd=Vey=nothing. Then we to allow 220 goals in 2015, up from 216 in 2014 actually. Hamhuis gets old and being unable to trade him was fun too. So was signing Bartkowsi. Then we broke the bank for Gudbranson, who is inferior to Garrison in every way but we sold the farm for him. Then, cause we suck cause of Benning we land with the 5th overall pick. Even though logic dictates you should go for the BPA and forward need on your offensive record breakingly bad team you pick a Jouveli. Why? Cause you broke the defence in the first place.

I actually don't remember that. I remember Bieksa playing horrible and everyone hating on Garrison. I remember being satisfied with Stanton on the team.

I don't even remember breaking the bank for Gudbranson, I thought we traded a guy who will never make it a centre in the NHL and a 2nd round pick for a stud d-man. Sold the farm, how so?

 

[Hit the post]

I actually don't remember that. I remember Bieksa playing horrible and everyone hating on Garrison. I remember being satisfied with Stanton on the team.

I don't even remember breaking the bank for Gudbranson, I thought we traded a guy who will never make it a centre in the NHL and a 2nd round pick for a stud d-man. Sold the farm, how so?

Stud d-man is a #4 D nowadays?

What's a #4 D worth? To Jim Benning a "2nd round pick".

(actually I'll top that last one - to Jim Benning a career #7 guy [Weber] is a #4 D!)

 

[Ainec]

It's interesting...

We draft Horvat and fans *****
We draft Virtanen and fans *****
We draft Juolevi and fans *****

Fans ***** that we need a big 2 way centre with leadership and top line potential (Horvat)
Fans ***** that we need a offensive power forward forward (Virtanen)
Fans ***** that we need a potential top pairing D man that can do it all (Juolevi)

All three of them have great potential let them develop and let's see what they can be

Few people wanted Nuke over Horvat. I was really optimistic about the Horvat pick

 

[DS7]

Our defense isn't rebuilt, but we at least have a potential #1D and Elite Goalie in our pipeline for when we need them in 5-10 years time.

Because at the rate our division rivals are improving, I'm not sure our current defense can even catch them. Imagine Sbisa against McDavid and Puuljarvi from Edmonton or against Gaudreau and Tkachuk in calgary...

 

[Ainec]

I've never seen a dmen become a #1 when their own team calls him a #2 at best

Did we hear it with OEL, Rielly, Lindholm? No.

 

[crazychimp]

It's interesting...

We draft Horvat and fans *****
We draft Virtanen and fans *****
We draft Juolevi and fans *****

Fans ***** that we need a big 2 way centre with leadership and top line potential (Horvat)
Fans ***** that we need a offensive power forward forward (Virtanen)
Fans ***** that we need a potential top pairing D man that can do it all (Juolevi)

All three of them have great potential let them develop and let's see what they can be

Agreed, I honestly wouldn't mind if we drafted another d-man in the 1st in next years draft as well, we should take the opposite approach of the Oilers with building the back-end first, look at the problem they are facing now high end forwards but no d man to help them move the play up the ice and now they're in a position where they'll likely have to pay a huge price to acquire a good d-man.

 

[Ainec]

Drafting dmen over fwds is a bad move in the 1st round unless they are BPA. Look at all the top 20 Ds taken in the 2nd and later compared to top 30 F

 

[Ainec]

Meh. I wasn't one of them. I liked Horvat at that spot. But i was downright negative on Virtanen over Ehlers and Juolevi this year. Not because of Tkachuk but because the 2 Alberta teams got exactly who they wanted

 

[PG Canuck]

The Canucks defense is still missing a lot and it's the hardest pieces to acquire.

It's going to be another long year.

 

[Domecile]

Meh. I wasn't one of them. I liked Horvat at that spot. But i was downright negative on Virtanen over Ehlers and Juolevi this year. Not because of Tkachuk but because the 2 Alberta teams got exactly who they wanted

Well Pool Party wasn't exactly in our control but yea Tkachuk hurts a bit going to Calgary.

My point was their definitely were more than just a few who wanted Nuke at the time... but it's pointless to really go there so nevermind lol.

 

[Johnsie19]

Drafting dmen over fwds is a bad move in the 1st round unless they are BPA. Look at all the top 20 Ds taken in the 2nd and later compared to top 30 F

BPA is who you think it is. Benning and many others didnt like Tkachuk there it's really that simple.

 

[thenextone]

I think we are starting to get the personnel to have a competent D. I don't think we have the coaching to take it to the next level.

 

[RandV]

If you're building a D for your future, I obviously have a more lowsy build today than other teams. Trick is to make sure your core is better than your competitors 5 years now. That's what we're building up for right now, and no one knows what's happening with the other cores then and there. We just have to keep our eyes on OUR prize.

Seems like I'm always pointing this out to over excited fans on other teams, but having a good group of legit top 4 24-30 year old's playing in your lineup now is far more than an impressive prospect pool. From 2001-2015 we've had a strong team built like that, and only needed 1 good dman to crack the team every few years to maintain. There were a few impressive prospect pools that came and went in that time that never amounted to much in the end.

Now, Edler and Tanev are exactly the type of guys I'm talking about. Gudbranson has spent a number of years in the league already, and only last season did he hit a respectable 20 minute average ice time - bare minimum for a good top 4 guy. We'll need to see more of that and how he does as a Canuck. Similar deal with Hutton, who I really like, but it's only 1 NHL season at 20 minutes. His rookie season, but he went the college route so he's on older rookie. Tryamkin was a bright spot to finish last season and there's a lot of upside, but again we've seen so little of him. After that Juoliovi is a few years away and the rest are currently AHL players.

Right now with our D core it looks like we could have some solid depth of dependable defenders, but compared to other teams offense is a huge concern. Edler has never been able to be a 1 PP QB guy, and while Hutton is smooth at getting the puck out of the zone it's not clear if he or anyone else in the system can be any better. And with Tanev, Gudbranson, and Tryamkin, we're loaded up with a bunch of defense first guys.