Brampton in trouble

[Captain Crash]

These teams in small markets are constantly in trouble. Especially in today's game. I don't think its if teams like them, Kalamazoo and Elmira will disappear, its when.

Ah, yes, now that you have rebutted my series of facts central to the financial reality of the team with your opinion based on hasty, unsubstantiated generalization, I see your point.

 

[crimsonace]

Ah, yes, now that you have rebutted my series of facts central to the financial reality of the team with your opinion based on hasty, unsubstantiated generalization, I see your point.

According to SE, all leagues that aren't the old UHL/CHL are awful and dying. Yes, you can see the irony in that statement.

 

[royals119]

The nailers have fans?!

Watching on TV I thought they had a quality feed. I wasn't expecting much. Maybe the best one I've seen this year. Its up there anyway with South Carolina, Florida and Toledo.

Some of the worst are Wheeling, Kalamazoo, Manchester, Reading and Adirondack.

I'm curious how you rate the feeds and how you are watching it.

In the Reading area the local cable system broadcasts the away games using the feed from ECHL-TV/Neulion, so we watch most of the away games that way.

My wife had surgery last week and couldn't get to the home games this weekend, so we watched a couple of Reading home games on Neulion. I streamed it to my laptop and used Chromecast to put it up on the TV. Looked great. Good quality image, no stuttering or freezing. It is a little different from most other arenas in that there is no center ice camera due to the luxury boxes, so the view switches between two cameras located around the middle of each offensive zone. Otherwise I found the quality to be much higher than most of the away games I've watched this year. I'm going to try a couple of road games that way instead of watching via Comcast to see if there is a difference. I'm interested in why you think Reading has a "bad" feed - maybe you haven't watched any games this season? They did put in all new HD cameras this year and upgraded the in arena video system to support the new video scoreboard. Last year they were using the new board with the old cameras and equipment, so the quality was lower.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I'm curious how you rate the feeds and how you are watching it.

In the Reading area the local cable system broadcasts the away games using the feed from ECHL-TV/Neulion, so we watch most of the away games that way.

My wife had surgery last week and couldn't get to the home games this weekend, so we watched a couple of Reading home games on Neulion. I streamed it to my laptop and used Chromecast to put it up on the TV. Looked great. Good quality image, no stuttering or freezing. It is a little different from most other arenas in that there is no center ice camera due to the luxury boxes, so the view switches between two cameras located around the middle of each offensive zone. Otherwise I found the quality to be much higher than most of the away games I've watched this year. I'm going to try a couple of road games that way instead of watching via Comcast to see if there is a difference. I'm interested in why you think Reading has a "bad" feed - maybe you haven't watched any games this season? They did put in all new HD cameras this year and upgraded the in arena video system to support the new video scoreboard. Last year they were using the new board with the old cameras and equipment, so the quality was lower.

Same way you're watching. I don't think most teams do it. I know wheeling also did it(they may have been the first)not sure how "costly" it is.

My ranking system isn't anything spectacular but obviously delays are a part of it. A couple of places I have noticed a lag where they are ahead in the call but the footage is like 2 seconds behind. This happened at Wheeling and atleast one Florida game. Some places just don't seem like they necessarily come in with a clear feed. What you said there's no center ice cameras. I guess it's not a gigantic deal but it was a little unusual. I guess its something you could adjust to if you saw it often it probably wouldn't register. The scoreboard that appeared on the screen wasn't the easiest to read if you had just turned the game on. I t said home and guest and was just a small box. Most of them seem to actually have the team and logo.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

According to SE, all leagues that aren't the old UHL/CHL are awful and dying. Yes, you can see the irony in that statement.

Slowly and painfully they are. While affiliations have cut the costs they have brought the quality down because teams have to use unqualified players to fill spots at times. There's also no rivalries because teams change every off season a lot. This doesn't register to the sheep but to diehards it does.

 

[crimsonace]

Slowly and painfully they are. While affiliations have cut the costs they have brought the quality down because teams have to use unqualified players to fill spots at times. There's also no rivalries because teams change every off season a lot. This doesn't register to the sheep but to diehards it does.

Been a diehard for 30+ years ... and there's a reason the affiliated leagues have survived and the unaffiliated ones all died. The one thing the unaffiliated leagues had were tough guys who tended to stick around, and maybe 1-2 other guys, but there was significant roster turnover at every level. The ECHL at least provides some sense of stability and the teams with a lot of affiliate players are, not surprisingly, the best teams in the league (and the independents are struggling).

 

[JungleJON]

City to pledge $1.5 mil. for hockey team

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...-5m-lifeline-to-struggling-beast-hockey-club/

 

[mfrerkes]

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...-5m-lifeline-to-struggling-beast-hockey-club/

I wonder how Brampton taxpayers feel about their dollars being used to prop up an insolvent team in a market that has not supported hockey. This is a misuse of public funds, and will probably not be enough to keep the team around more than a few additional years.

What a waste.

 

[jpc7734]

I wonder how Brampton taxpayers feel about their dollars being used to prop up an insolvent team in a market that has not supported hockey. This is a misuse of public funds, and will probably not be enough to keep the team around more than a few additional years.

What a waste.

Nailed it,

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

I wonder how Brampton taxpayers feel about their dollars being used to prop up an insolvent team in a market that has not supported hockey. This is a misuse of public funds, and will probably not be enough to keep the team around more than a few additional years.

What a waste.

Agree, truly amazing.

 

[JackalsKnuckles]

Best line in the whole article:


" Councillor Gurpreet Dhillon, the only other dissenting vote, said taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook when private enterprise fails.

“I can’t support a bailout, at the expense of taxpayers, for poor planning and poor business decisions,†said Dhillon. "


Can't believe the team owner had the balls to ask for a handout in the first place.

 

[Mightygoose]

We just may have Glendale North. Though it's not fully what the Beast wanted (1.5/year) I take this will keep them in for the next three season despite the continues losses.

My understanding the Steelheads claim Brampton in their territory so no chance on another OHL team coming to town ever. Plus Raptors 905 forced the NBLC's A's up to Orangeville, they won't get another major tenant, so they caved.

Oh well, I'm not a Brampton taxpayer but it sure shows how the build it and they will come planning can be the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The City of Brampton has an operating budget of $607 million for 2016. There's also a $113 million capital budget. Half a million bucks is a rounding error. The payback in taxes generated (payroll taxes, sales taxes, lodging taxes, etc.) is probably a third of that. Net cost around $350,000.

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/budget/Budget-Archive/Pages/2016-Budget.aspx

I guarantee that I could find millions upon millions of wasted funds in the Brampton OP and CE budgets with my eyes closed. They could easily be found in unnecessary or duplicate services-and that's just scratching the surface of budget inefficiencies.

The moral indignation about this subsidy is comical. Much ado about nothing.

 

[mfrerkes]

I guarantee that I could find millions upon millions of wasted funds in the Brampton OP and CE budgets with my eyes closed. They could easily be found in unnecessary or duplicate services-and that's just scratching the surface of budget inefficiencies.

Well, then I guess every failing business owner in Brampton should just line up in front of city hall and ask for their free $500,000 every year for the next three years. If that's the precedent they're going to set, I don't see why anyone wishing for a handout should be denied.

I'd support propping up a team (temporarily) if there's a strong case that one could make for doing so. However, history shows Brampton couldn't make the OHL work. Their lack of fan support in the ECHL is equally disturbing. Pouring over $1,000,000 of public funds into an already proven loser isn't going to change the eventual outcome.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Well, then I guess every failing business owner in Brampton should just line up in front of city hall and ask for their free $500,000 every year for the next three years. If that's the precedent they're going to set, I don't see why anyone wishing for a handout should be denied.

I'd support propping up a team (temporarily) if there's a strong case that one could make for doing so. However, history shows Brampton couldn't make the OHL work. Their lack of fan support in the ECHL is equally disturbing. Pouring over $1,000,000 of public funds into an already proven loser isn't going to change the eventual outcome.

I happen to think that The Beast won't survive even with this amount of subsidy-unless they affiliate with the Leafs. Even that might not be enough. The hockey market is very crowded in the Greater Toronto Area and that there really is no fundamental need for an ECHL franchise in the area-even if they are affiliated with the Leafs.

I also know that it's the equivalent of 4-6 hours of the city's spending when annualized. It's an even smaller amount when one considers aggregate governmental-city, province, federal and whatever constitutes a county in Canada-spending in Brampton. The subsidy probably comes to less than 15 minutes of yearly aggregate governmental expenditures in Brampton. It's a needle in a hay stack.

Governments prop up all sorts of losing propositions-many over extremely long periods of time. It's not a political board so I'll leave it at that. So when they toss money at a sport I enjoy in a league which I follow, it doesn't bother me in the least. It wouldn't bother me even if were a Brampton taxpayer.

 

[GindyDraws]

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...-5m-lifeline-to-struggling-beast-hockey-club/

Sorry, I kinda laughed a bit when I saw that.

I can understand it in some ways, but the fact of the matter is that Brampton just isn't a hockey town. The demographics of the city lean more towards Asians, who aren't as interested in hockey as other boroughs of the GTA. Also, it doesn't help when you had an OHL team for 15 years that couldn't draw flies, and you have had a really bad hockey team, which doesn't help for attendance because who wants to pay good money to see a chronic loser?

 

[Cacciaguida]

People complaining over paying these taxes will complain that their taxes are going towards something else.

Then others will complain there's no local sports team and a lack of community.

This is the same city that bought a giant screen to watch Leaf games.

 

[Cacciaguida]

Sorry, I kinda laughed a bit when I saw that.

I can understand it in some ways, but the fact of the matter is that Brampton just isn't a hockey town. The demographics of the city lean more towards Asians, who aren't as interested in hockey as other boroughs of the GTA. Also, it doesn't help when you had an OHL team for 15 years that couldn't draw flies, and you have had a really bad hockey team, which doesn't help for attendance because who wants to pay good money to see a chronic loser?

Whaler fans

The team needs to stick around and not be a mickey mouse organization. Still waiting on a winning season in the ECHL.

 

[uncleben]

The ECHL needs investment from the NHL.


What I would like is for Brampton to be purchased by MLSE and run as Leafs property.
Solidify that affiliation and show the fans that there is an ownership group that cares, and that could go a long way.

 

[mfrerkes]

I happen to think that The Beast won't survive even with this amount of subsidy

You're probably correct. That's why it's an even bigger waste of money, IMO, because it won't really achieve the desired objective. The people of Brampton have already voted with their feet, and the results of that demonstrate they're not really into ECHL hockey. I doubt the city's interference in this matter will change the final result all that much.

So when they toss money at a sport I enjoy in a league which I follow, it doesn't bother me in the least. It wouldn't bother me even if were a Brampton taxpayer.

I'm sure it wouldn't. Socialism is great, as long as it supports the particular things you want. Even so-called conservatives in America love having a socialized military. However, I believe government functions best when it sticks to the very basics. Extraneous ventures (like minor league hockey) aren't life-saving services, so using public funds to keep them around seems like an abuse of the taxpayer's trust.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I'm sure it wouldn't. Socialism is great, as long as it supports the particular things you want. Even so-called conservatives in America love having a socialized military. However, I believe government functions best when it sticks to the very basics. Extraneous ventures (like minor league hockey) aren't life-saving services, so using public funds to keep them around seems like an abuse of the taxpayer's trust.

It hasn't done that since the 1930s. Get used to it

 

[LeafChief]

People complaining over paying these taxes will complain that their taxes are going towards something else.

Then others will complain there's no local sports team and a lack of community.

This is the same city that bought a giant screen to watch Leaf games.

Just wait until the Leafs are good. That screen will need to quadruple in size.

 

[jason2020]

The ECHL needs investment from the NHL.


What I would like is for Brampton to be purchased by MLSE and run as Leafs property.
Solidify that affiliation and show the fans that there is an ownership group that cares, and that could go a long way.

I think Mlse would move them out of Brampton.

 

[Flukeshot]

As a soon to be Brampton tax payer, this is a joke. What's the average attendance? 2,500? I hate that my money is going to be given to a millionaire to help stroke his ego and owning a minor league hockey team. He's clearly not a good businessman if he agreed to a lease the team can't afford all of three years later. So frustrating that he used the line you'll never get a team again. No one cares! If the OHL failed what chance does the ECHL have?

The city would be better off buying $500,000 worth of tickets and handing them out for free to the public or schools.

The population of Brampton is about 500,000. I guarantee if you held a referendum people would vote to save $1 each than have the team.

In regards to the outdoor big screen, more ppl watch it than the Beast. It's centrally located. The arena complex is all alone in a field and many predicted from the beginning that would prevent any team from drawing well. There are no other businesses benefitting from the team.

 

[jason2020]

As a soon to be Brampton tax payer, this is a joke. What's the average attendance? 2,500? I hate that my money is going to be given to a millionaire to help stroke his ego and owning a minor league hockey team. He's clearly not a good businessman if he agreed to a lease the team can't afford all of three years later. So frustrating that he used the line you'll never get a team again. No one cares! If the OHL failed what chance does the ECHL have?

The city would be better off buying $500,000 worth of tickets and handing them out for free to the public or schools.

The population of Brampton is about 500,000. I guarantee if you held a referendum people would vote to save $1 each than have the team.

In regards to the outdoor big screen, more ppl watch it than the Beast. It's centrally located. The arena complex is all alone in a field and many predicted from the beginning that would prevent any team from drawing well. There are no other businesses benefitting from the team.

Say Brampton buys the arena saves the team and next year attendance drops to 1500 and the owner says we need more money my point is the city could be opening a door they might not want to open.