Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part X

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You think someone deserves to eat crow after a 5-10 game hot streak during which a player has double the shooting percentage he had the last two seasons?

You remind me of the people I was arguing with earlier this year that thought Tierney was back to being a good player after he had 4 goals practically bounce in off of him in his first 6 games, and those who thought Sanford was a quality pickup immediately following his hattrick against the Avs

I'd say the difference is the way Brady has been playing. Like another poster said, he's playing a much smarter game right now. Is this his new normal, or is he playing a bit above his head? Who knows. But the last half dozen games or so have been very encouraging.

 

[bert]

I don't think my post was that ridiculous. Maybe a little spicy, but Hughes does have more talent than Brady and like 99 percent of the league. And I really had not seen a Hughes like impact game from Brady at that point.

However Brady's next two games were by far the best two efforts I have seen from him and I haven't even seen the hat trick game. He is fully playing at a top line level over the last two weeks, having a 200 ft impact I have not seen from him before .

Much more focused defensive effort and showing a lot more poise when he makes plays instead of spamming shots. Basically all the things that I was being critical about him, so why would I be upset now that he seems to be improving on those things?

You thinking I am trolling is because you have put emotion into this when all we are doing is discussing a hockey players ability.

I mean they were all pretty bad. You don't seem to have the ability to project out on this type of player. Maybe you can learn from this? Big guys take longer, longer development curve. Felt you always sold his hockey iq short. Hockey iq isn't always displayed the same way. He goes to the right spots in the offensive zone and has good vision with short passes.

Jack Hughes for example will not take the middle of the ice if there is any resistance. Maybe it's because he knows that his body won't be able to handle the physicality, maybe it's because he is scared? I am not sure but his peak abilities due to his size and skillset aren't far off. He is going to have to get alot stronger to have success in this league. I personally am skeptical. His brother Quinn doesn't play that way and they have similar body types. I'd be real worried if I'm a jersey fan. His talent and skill is easy to identify as he is naturally gifted but I don't like what I've seen from his game. Where im a huge Quinn Hughes fan. Doesn't mean Jack can't change but he is going to have to.

you must be confusing me with someone else. I never said that there was no possibility I could be wrong or that Brady was a no skill 3rd line guy.

Where are you getting that from and why are you attributing it to me?

No you said he was low skill, bad defensively 2nd line guy. Then talked about your ability to project players due to their skating.

You made your opinion on Brady very clear. Just own it, your PR campaign isn't working.

This is good advice.

 

[bert]

You think someone deserves to eat crow after a 5-10 game hot streak during which a player has double the shooting percentage he had the last two seasons?

You remind me of the people I was arguing with earlier this year that thought Tierney was back to being a good player after he had 4 goals practically bounce in off of him in his first 6 games, and those who thought Sanford was a quality pickup immediately following his hattrick against the Avs

These situations are nothing alike. Tkachuk is a young players that has shown consistent improvement and projects like most powerforwards and big players to have a longer development curve.

 

[umma gumma]

Which Tkachuk provides but Batherson does not?

I don't think I said anything about Batherson?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Anyone else find he has a unique skating style? Almost like a grizzly bear coming at you on the forecheck.

He's got the cele down

 

[Adrianopolous]

I don't think I said anything about Batherson?

Well their contracts are very different, so I am just trying to understand your "something more than points" comment ..

 

[NyQuil]

We still aren't a very good team, so we might as well enjoy the winning streaks while we can.

Dumping on Tkachuk for being "hot" and "scoring well above his average" and his "unsustainable shooting percentage" seems a bit silly.

Of course things will balance out, but it's nice for him to put some points in the bank early and get ahead of the curve a bit.

Plus I'm seeing some definite chemistry between him, Batherson and Norris. Part of the reason the line is working is that all three have fundamentally different skill sets that complement each other well.

Brady Tkachuk is still very much a project - patience will be required for all young players who use their frames in physical fashion in the NHL as they continue to grow into their bodies and put on muscle over time.

 

[DueDiligence]

The BT dissenters are clinging to anything they can to defend their arguments. But their opinions are becoming less and less valid. The reality is that he is playing at a higher level right now and is scoring and making plays without sacrificing anything from his physical game. His overall game is better and one major point people gloss over is that he is the best faceoff man on the team. It's no surprise that Batherson and especially Norris benefit from BT's presence on the ice.
Is he worth his contract? Time will tell but if he just stays at his current level of play I would say yes.

 

[Dionysus]

Moving along the trajectory to be a dominant power forward in the league. I think he follows in the footsteps of guys like his dad, Todd Bertuzzi, Rick Tocchet, Cam Neely, Brendan Shanahan. Big strong skilled players who complement other top players and will put up points playing on a top line.

 

[TheDebater]

We aren't speaking in hindsight. Tkachuk absolutely did not deserve his contract. He 1000% was going to live up to it, I echoed that profusely-- even if its .5 too much. I was the biggest advocate to draft him and his biggest fan since day 1. But I am also realistic in managerial expectations.

With your logic, Batherson should have gotten 8 million as well cause I very well was insistent on here that he was going to be an elite top liner soon. But he got 5 million due to his production up to date. Tkachuk did NOT deserve 8.25 for his production to date.

Fact of the matter is we paid Tkachuk for what he COULD be(which is what we are seeing glimpses of now) instead of a mix of that plus his previous output.

Come on man, what is this argument?

Nobody thought Tkachuk or let me re-phrase that, nobody in their right mind ever hands out a big contract to a star RFA with the idea that this 22 year old player has done enough to deserve it. The whole point of locking in RFA's is based on potential and what we (management, fans) project that player to do after signing that contract.

You cannot come here and say you did not think Brady deserves that contract, but also that you think he will live up to it (with a give or take of ~500K)....that is called hypocrisy, and if you are trying to use that argument to defend other members here, trust me, the endless pages of debate regarding Brady's future contract had little to do with what he had done up to that point, but moreso the endless criticizing by some that he he would never live up to 7-8 million a year.

 

[TheDebater]

It is typical, first the argument was that Brady is a max 55-60 points guy with InTanGiBleS, and you "do not pay for intangibles", now when he is actually playing like an 8 million dollar player, the same folks are having a hard time with it, so now they want to call what he is doing a "hot streak" because that somehow gives them hope that Brady is not actually this good, and that he will go back to being.....what exactly?

Brady has been scoring goals since the day he got to the NHL at 19, there is absolutely ZERO reason to believe that he cannot continue to do so at age 23-28. This is not a hot streak, this is Brady Tkachuk as a player, and we have not seen his peak yet; I will definitely love to hear the arguments at the end of the year when Brady hits 30 goals and 40 assists...

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Come on man, what is this argument?

Nobody thought Tkachuk or let me re-phrase that, nobody in their right mind ever hands out a big contract to a star RFA with the idea that this 22 year old player has done enough to deserve it. The whole point of locking in RFA's is based on potential and what we (management, fans) project that player to do after signing that contract.

You cannot come here and say you did not think Brady deserves that contract, but also that you think he will live up to it (with a give or take of ~500K)....that is called hypocrisy, and if you are trying to use that argument to defend other members here, trust me, the endless pages of debate regarding Brady's future contract had little to do with what he had done up to that point, but moreso the endless criticizing by some that he he would never live up to 7-8 million a year.

It's not called hypocrisy, it's called negotiation.

I literally gave you the example of Batherson too and you flung right by it. Players are paid based off what they contributed and what they could contribute Not solely off what they could become. You nuts? It's why Mackinnon only getting paid 6.3 million and so on.

Tkachuk not only got paid what he could become, he got paid close to "what if he reaches his full potential" money after not having broke 50 points yet.

 

[TheDebater]

It's not called hypocrisy, it's called negotiation.

I literally gave you the example of Batherson too and you flung right by it. Players are paid based off what they contributed and what they could contribute Not solely off what they could become. You nuts? It's why Mackinnon only getting paid 6.3 million and so on.

Tkachuk not only got paid what he could become, he got paid close to "what if he reaches his full potential" money after not having broke 50 points yet.

Alright, I guess this requires getting into again, but let me pre-face what I am about to say with DRAKE IS UNDERPAID. I hope I made that clear, because most of us agree that Dorion absolutely stole that contract, but using Batherson as an example to suggest other players are "over paid" is going to be very skewed. But I digress:


Tkachuk at 19 years old: 71 gp 22 G 23 A 45 P

Batherson at 19 years old: Zero games played at the NHL level


Tkachuk at 20 years old: 71 gp 21 G 23 A 44 P

Batherson at 20 years old: 20 gp 3G 6 A 9P


Tkachuk at 21 years old: 56 gp 17 G 19 A 36 P

Batherson at 21 years old: 23gp 3G 7 A 10P


Tkachuk at 22 years old (current season): 22GP 11 G 10A 21 P

Batherson at 22 years old (last season): 56 gp 17G 17 A 34 P


Career totals:

Tkachuk 220 GP 146 points

Batherson 119GP 77 points


Batherson breaking out THIS year at 23 years old (24 in April) has absolutely zero bearing on the contract Tkachuk deserves to get. Tkachuk at 22 years old already has 100 more NHL games played and double the points that Batherson has. Brady is also a consistent leader in HITS in the NHL, he blocks shots, he fights, he is the captain of an NHL team....there is so much more to his game, we have to look at all factors here.

 

[aragorn]

Brady has always been good & has always had a super high hockey IQ. He came out of the gate good, played with Mark Stone in his first yr & had 45 pts as a rookie. There are so many plays he makes that end up as goals for that don't end up on the score sheet for him. Now we are starting to see the other guys around him (Norris & Batherson) get better & it's starting to click for them.

They have a very good top line that is only going to get better & need a second line to develop & create some secondary scoring. Hopefully, once Pinto returns they can turn him & Stutzle into a good 2nd line. They have a number of the peices in place, but still need a few more especially on defence. They also have to figure out what they will do in net.

 

[HSF]

Lol Tkachuk is already playing at a 70 pts+ level at barely 22. His $8m contract is going to look more than fair within a few years. Add to this his leadership qualities, toughness and great attitude, and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.

Maybe you're just out to lunch bro.

if he can put up 70+ for a full season I would say he is fairly paid at his caphit

He can def do it this year but 'pace' is not the answer

Lets wait a see

 

[Alex1234]

Since they signed their big contracts

Svechnikov is .808 ppg at 7.5M$ AAV playing on a much better team
Brady is .955 ppg at 8.2M$ AVV

 

[Sun God Nika]

9 goals in last 10 games.

contract looking like a bargain if Brady is a consistent 60-70 pt player for us.

 

[bert]

Since they signed their big contracts

Svechnikov is .808 ppg at 7.5M$ AAV playing on a much better team
Brady is .955 ppg at 8.2M$ AVV

Didn't see this one coming right away not gonna lie.

 

[playasRus]

I'm not a huge fan of the 8.2M contract Tkachuk signed, but I'll easily say he's lived up to it the last 10 games or so.

If he can do that for 60+ games a year x 5+ years, it won't have been a mistake. Basically living up to 75% of the value of his contract which is a 70 pt leader on the team. That's my arbritrary average Joe hard cut off.

I do note he's at a PPG right now but I don't expect him or think he needs to be an 80 pt guy to live up to his contract. If he ends up an 80 pt guy for more than 2 years on top of my threshold, THEN it's a bargain.

 

[Que]

I’d go back to school if I could bring Brady Tkachuk for ‘show and tell’