Player Discussion Braden Holtby Appreciation Thread

[txpd]

Holtby started games vs Boston, Phily and Colorado, took like twenty goals in first rounds and left the cage to heroic Samsonov who did a good job in this games. Important is not to start the game, important is to fiinish it.

BS. Dont try and sell me that coming into a game trailing 4-0 is the same as playing 3 games in a week against division rivals where you need wins. He got like one of those games and it was not a good result.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

BS. Dont try and sell me that coming into a game trailing 4-0 is the same as playing 3 games in a week against division rivals where you need wins. He got like one of those games and it was not a good result.

BS. The only difference is the number of games.

 

[maacoshark]

Rather have Jose Threeormore or Olaf Kolzig for one more year. Thankyou Holtby and goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye..

Samsonov played (finished) 32% of his gamed vs Top10 teams in the League and 64% vs Top20. Holtby played (finished) 36% of his games vs Top10 teams and 70% vs Top20. Samsonov played vs Boston, Colorado, Tampa, Philadelphia, Pittsburg, Carolina, Isles, Dallas and Toronto. Both Holtby and Samsonov played the ~same percentage of weak and strong teams.

It is a good example of a drunk misbelief to think that Samsonov had easier matchups. He played less games nevrless.

You just posted the numbers. They weren't the same.
It would help if you actually read what was posted. Samsonov was put in good situations early in the season. He definitely got weaker competition early and they sheltered him by playing a more defensive style in front of him. By watching those early games you could tell the coaching staff was trying to shelter him early. Later in the season he wasn't getting sheltered as much and he struggled.
Sorry to rain on your parade but at this point Holtby is a better goaltender than Samsonov. Samsonov does have the potential to be a star but he isn't there yet. And it is possible that he never developes into the goalie we all hope he becomes.
He has some flaws in the technical part of his game. At times he is out of position or doesn't cut down angles and tries to rely on his athletic ability. I think his biggest issue was that he would lose his net. Too many times when he moved from post to post he ended up way outside the net. A common mistake for young goaltenders.

 

[maacoshark]

BS. Dont try and sell me that coming into a game trailing 4-0 is the same as playing 3 games in a week against division rivals where you need wins. He got like one of those games and it was not a good result.

I have to agree with txpd believe it or not.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

You just posted the numbers. They weren't the same.
It would help if you actually read what was posted. Samsonov was put in good situations early in the season. He definitely got weaker competition early and they sheltered him by playing a more defensive style in front of him. By watching those early games you could tell the coaching staff was trying to shelter him early. Later in the season he wasn't getting sheltered as much and he struggled.
Sorry to rain on your parade but at this point Holtby is a better goaltender than Samsonov. Samsonov does have the potential to be a star but he isn't there yet. And it is possible that he never developes into the goalie we all hope he becomes.
He has some flaws in the technical part of his game. At times he is out of position or doesn't cut down angles and tries to rely on his athletic ability. I think his biggest issue was that he would lose his net. Too many times when he moved from post to post he ended up way outside the net. A common mistake for young goaltenders.

Team gave up in multiple games because of Holtby. How terrible he was. Then Holtby was pulled out in a game and replaced by Samsonov, team turned to play again. No one trust in Holtby. In playoffs we played 20 meters lower to protect our horrible cagetander. This 'was protected' fable is a joke. One had only HDSA and the other only LDSA? Holtby is a disaster.

Player	5v5 HDSV%
Ilya Samsonov	0.835
Bag of Potatoes	0.800
Braden Holtby	0.786

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Team gave up in multiple games because of Holtby. How terrible he was. Then Holtby was pulled out in a game and replaced by Samsonov, team turned to play again. No one trust in Holtby. In playoffs we played 20 meters lower to protect our horrible cagetander. This 'was protected' fable is a joke. One had only HDSA and the other only LDSA? Holtby is a disaster.

Player	5v5 HDSV%
Ilya Samsonov	0.835
Bag of Potatoes	0.800
Braden Holtby	0.786

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You know another team is involved in a hockey game right?

When leading 3-0 or 4-0 most teams will begin to recede into a more conservative style. It's absolutely ludicrous to infer that the last 20 minutes of a 4-0 game presents the same offensive chances as the first 40.


Holtby is the greatest goalie we've ever had in Washington (this is from a longtime Kolzig stan). I believe in due time both 37 and 70 should be in the rafters. The only areas where Holtby is really edged out in our record books are areas where the career sample size was larger or smaller than he provided. When you read these numbers and remember the absolute roller coaster ride our defense has been during his time in DC, it's clear he's not a system goalie or whatever the argument is for his numbers.

These are all the goaltending records they keep for the team, look at how he basically wins or ties every category he's eligible for (I omitted loss records, he's not on any of those anyways).

• Most games played in a season: Olaf Kolzig, 73 (1999-00) & Braden Holtby, 73 (2014-15)
• Most consecutive starts in a season: Braden Holtby, 23 (2014-15)
• Most games played in a career: Olaf Kolzig, 711
• Most wins in a season: Braden Holtby, 48 (2015–16)
• Most wins in a season, rookie: Michal Neuvirth, 27 (2010–11)
• Most wins in a career: Olaf Kolzig, 301
• Most shutouts in a season: Jim Carey, 9 (1995–96) & Braden Holtby, 9 (2014–15)
• Most shutouts in a career: Olaf Kolzig & Braden Holtby, 35
• Most overtime losses in a season: Olaf Kolzig, 11 (2005–06), Braden Holtby, 11 (2014–15)
• Most overtime losses in a career: Olaf Kolzig, 38
• Highest save % in a season, minimum 20 games: Braden Holtby, .925 (2016–17)
• Highest save % in a career, minimum 82 games: Braden Holtby, .918
• Lowest goals against average in a season, minimum 20 games: Braden Holtby, 2.07 (2016-2017)
• Lowest goals against average in a career, minimum 82 games: Jim Carey, 2.37
• Most saves in a season: Braden Holtby: 1,887 (2014–15)
• Most saves in a career: Olaf Kolzig: 18,013
• Most shots against in a season: Braden Holtby, 2,044 (2014–15)
• Most shots against in a career: Olaf Kolzig, 19,873
• Most minutes played in a season: Olaf Kolzig,4,370:50 (1999–2000)
• Most minutes played in a career: Olaf Kolzig, 41,259:36

I'm ready to see him move on because it makes sense salary cap wise, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to it presented as if he's a trash goalie.

The shelf life for goalies playing at an elite level in the modern NHL is extremely short. You would be hard pressed to find a goalie who consistently puts up the same elite numbers every season and playoffs. As far as the modern NHL goes, Holtby is as good as they come in terms of longevity. Carey Price is literally the only goalie I can think of that has, for the most part, not experienced a season or two of significant regression. Of the last 10 Vezina trophy winners, Price is the only one to not have a serious regression in the playoffs or regular season in the years that came before or after winning. With Rask likely winning the Vezina this season I think that'll probably make it 10 for 11.


Playing goalie in the NHL is the hardest position in sports, I don't think it's even arguable. In this modern game you simply do not find a guy who can string together a career of always being top 5 in Vezina contention.


Look at the top 5 goalies in the NHL in the last calendar year:

• Binnington: Terrible 2020 playoffs
• Rask: Terrible 2020 playoffs
• Vaselsvskiy: Terrible 2019 Playoffs
• Price: Terrible 19-20 regular season, great playoffs
• Hellebuyck: Terrible 2018-19 season

This isn't baseball, you don't get an ace that just delivers Cy Young seasons one right after the other. It's not a coincidence that the last dominant goalie for multiple seasons (Brodeur) also played in the trap and his numbers are HEAVILY inflated as a result.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Michael Neuvirth, that’s a blast from the past.

 

[McVechkin]

Caps fans are about to realize how fortunate we have been to have such a backbone in net for so many years. I can be onboard with the fact that it’s time to move on and find a cheaper option rather than overpay for an aging/diminishing holtby.... But make no mistake, holtby outperformed the majority of goalies since he became and everyday goalie.

 

[BallardEra]

I can see Flames or Oilers signing him.

 

[txpd]

Caps fans are about to realize how fortunate we have been to have such a backbone in net for so many years. I can be onboard with the fact that it’s time to move on and find a cheaper option rather than overpay for an aging/diminishing holtby.... But make no mistake, holtby outperformed the majority of goalies since he became and everyday goalie.

I think past that too many think Samsonov is going to step in and be a Stanley Cup caliber goalie.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Caps fans are about to realize how fortunate we have been to have such a backbone in net for so many years. I can be onboard with the fact that it’s time to move on and find a cheaper option rather than overpay for an aging/diminishing holtby.... But make no mistake, holtby outperformed the majority of goalies since he became and everyday goalie.

We have invested high draft picks in goalies recently. I think we are ready for life past Holtby

 

[maacoshark]

Team gave up in multiple games because of Holtby. How terrible he was. Then Holtby was pulled out in a game and replaced by Samsonov, team turned to play again. No one trust in Holtby. In playoffs we played 20 meters lower to protect our horrible cagetander. This 'was protected' fable is a joke. One had only HDSA and the other only LDSA? Holtby is a disaster.

Player	5v5 HDSV%
Ilya Samsonov	0.835
Bag of Potatoes	0.800
Braden Holtby	0.786

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Oh my god another one of you stats fanatics. Just watch the 2 goalies play. Sorry but I really don't think Samsonov is ready to be the starter.
He might be forced to be.

 

[um]

Holtby is the greatest goalie we've ever had in Washington (this is from a longtime Kolzig stan). I believe in due time both 37 and 70 should be in the rafters.

Amen!

I hope people can remember him for the Holtbeast he was for most of his time here, rather than his last few Loltby years.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Oh my god another one of you stats fanatics. Just watch the 2 goalies play. Sorry but I really don't think Samsonov is ready to be the starter.
He might be forced to be.

There are three different discussions here:
- Holtby is not an NHL level of play goalie anymore.
- Samsonov is only 50-75% ready for a loaded starter job.
- Our team need an experienced and cheap 2G, not Holtby, Vanesek or Copley.

 

[txpd]

We have invested high draft picks in goalies recently. I think we are ready for life past Holtby

Define ready?

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Define ready?

Good goalies. Salary cap doesn’t really give us a choice.

The young goalies we got were both drafted in the top 100

 

[txpd]

Good goalies. Salary cap doesn’t really give us a choice.

The young goalies we got were both drafted in the top 100

I get the salary cap giving them no option. That doesnt mean they are ready. Being drafted high doesnt mean they are ready.

I get they have to do it but dont see how they are ready.

 

[HansonBro]

There are three different discussions here:
- Holtby is not an NHL level of play goalie anymore.
- Samsonov is only 50-75% ready for a loaded starter job.
- Our team need an experienced and cheap 2G, not Holtby, Vanesek or Copley.

Rumor is Toronto is shopping Andersen. He could fill the void for a year...what would you pay?

 

[HansonBro]

Then I could see Toronto signing Holtby

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Rumor is Toronto is shopping Andersen. He could fill the void for a year...what would you pay?

A 2nd. 1st if you retain on salary.

 

[HansonBro]

A 2nd. 1st if you retain on salary.

Get Dubas on the horn and let's get something done. I think 1 year of Andersen @5mil makes a lot of sense for you guys. I'd like to get Gudas but that's unlikely. I also like Andersen and would keep him, but rumors be rumors

 

[twabby]

I'd rather just sign a cheap UFA vet than spend draft capital on a position that is voodoo.

There are plenty of decent options as a 1A/1B: Crawford, Markstrom, Greiss, Khudobin, and Lehner are all UFAs. Some will likely get a decent deal somewhere (Markstrom and Lehner) but the others should all be reasonably priced and are similar quality to Andersen.

 

[HansonBro]

I'd rather just sign a cheap UFA vet than spend draft capital on a position that is voodoo.

There are plenty of decent options as a 1A/1B: Crawford, Markstrom, Greiss, Khudobin, and Lehner are all UFAs. Some will likely get a decent deal somewhere (Markstrom and Lehner) but the others should all be reasonably priced and are similar quality to Andersen.

I get the feeling both Markstrom and Lehner will resign (and MAF gets traded, re: the backstab).

Andersen for a 2nd seems pretty close in value compared to the Allen trade dont you think?

And Toronto could give your gently used Holtby a new home

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

2nd + Hagelin/Dowd for Anderson.

 

[twabby]

I get the feeling both Markstrom and Lehner will resign (and MAF gets traded, re: the backstab).

Andersen for a 2nd seems pretty close in value compared to the Allen trade dont you think?

And Toronto could give your gently used Holtby a new home

I think a second round pick is probably around fair value but I don't think the Capitals make sense as a team to pay that price. They either need to just draft someone with that pick or use it in a trade to upgrade a position that isn't as easily addressed by the UFA market.