Confirmed with Link: Boucher: to return or not to return, that is the question

[Tuna99]

If Crawford handling the 5v5 implies a completly different system, it's almost as though Boucher got demoted and Crawford is the HC now. Not sure that's what's happening here. I suspect minor tweaks, and a change of duties at practice.

Not really. Jacques Martin runs the Pittsburg 5 on 5 system, the same one he’s run forever, and he’s an assistant.

When Crawford had Quenville as his assistant Quenville was running the show, it’s very common

 

[Micklebot]

Not really. Jacques Martin runs the Pittsburg 5 on 5 system, the same one he’s run forever, and he’s an assistant.

When Crawford had Quenville as his assistant Quenville was running the show, it’s very common

Ok, fair enough. It's more the switching mid stream thing that I think is odd, but if you say it's not uncommon for the assistants to not only run the 5v5 but build the system being run altogether, I'll take you at your word.

 

[Tuna99]

Ok, fair enough. It's more the switching mid stream thing that I think is odd, but if you say it's not uncommon for the assistants to not only run the 5v5 but build the system being run altogether, I'll take you at your word.

I’m going to roll that back a bit.

I think it’s uncommon for a GM to throw his coach under the bus one day, say he’s a good coach the next day, question his tactics one day, threaten to fire him the next day, says he’s a good coach later that week, say you did all the talking to him in the exit meeting, then contradict yourself and say you asked a lot of questions, then happily bring him back.

The Ottawa Senators organization is not normal, assistant coaches doing the x’s and 0’s is.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Not really. Jacques Martin runs the Pittsburg 5 on 5 system, the same one he’s run forever, and he’s an assistant.

When Crawford had Quenville as his assistant Quenville was running the show, it’s very common

What's in an H? - Popular Pittsburgh

 

[Micklebot]

I’m going to roll that back a bit.

I think it’s uncommon for a GM to throw his coach under the bus one day, say he’s a good coach the next day, question his tactics one day, threaten to fire him the next day, says he’s a good coach later that week, say you did all the talking to him in the exit meeting, then contradict yourself and say you asked a lot of questions, then happily bring him back.

The Ottawa Senators organization is not normal, assistant coaches doing the x’s and 0’s is.

The more I think about it, the more I can think of examples where the assistants are the x's and o's guys. I guess it's the idea that we brought in Boucher to be the x's and o's guy, and have now decided to have him focus on something else. Maybe this is more of an acknowledgment that Boucher was taking on too much himself, and needs to use the assets he has (Crawford) more so that everyone can contribute to their fullest. That's about as much sunshine and rainbows as I can put on this...

 

[Tuna99]

The more I think about it, the more I can think of examples where the assistants are the x's and o's guys. I guess it's the idea that we brought in Boucher to be the x's and o's guy, and have now decided to have him focus on something else. Maybe this is more of an acknowledgment that Boucher was taking on too much himself, and needs to use the assets he has (Crawford) more so that everyone can contribute to their fullest. That's about as much sunshine and rainbows as I can put on this...

Last year Boucher only talked about leadership and team. That same narrative didn’t exist this season. But everyone got drunk in PEI at Dion’s house and bombed the pre season game so we thought the team was unified and ready to get back to the system. Never happened.

I’m happy Boucher is back just because I know that if I was working at a job and in the (you know what), Boucher would be the guy who showed up early, worked late and had your back at all times. I know that sounds simple, but Ottawa needs that example now. Within an organization that’s in chaos, you need a guy who you know is always going to be respectful, be hard working and have your back

 

[Cosmix]

When does Dorion extend Boucher? If we get off to a good start ? sooner than later?

If Boucher has a very good start, with points well into playoff contention, then Dorion may extend him at mid-season. If we see another gong show performance, then 20-30 Games is all that he will get as Dorion needs to blame someone other than himself for failure. I am not optimistic that things will change for the better within 20 to 30 games.

 

[Cosmix]

I'd like to see the plan and where we are on it... Moved Brassard for futures so far .. Are there more roster changes for futures coming ... (other than possible buy outs (Burrows,Gaborik)).

Da plan, da plan, I want to see da plan!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Boucher realizes he's a lame duck here. I guess he is pretty desperate to save his name and career. I also think Boucher can talk circles around Dorion when it comes to tactics on the ice. Dorion can say he wants more up tempo play and Boucher can tell him 15 ways he will achieve that and Dorion can only laugh and say ok Guy that's what I want make it happen.

 

[JD1]

Completely different in ethos, too.

Crawford and Boucher, historically at leadt, before they were on the same coaching staff together, have had completely different philosophies about coaching. Boucher has always been a "tight systems" guy. Crawford has historically been a "run & gun" kind of coach that promotes a fast, relentless attacking system. Basically the antithesis of a Boucher team.

If Crawford is indeed the 5v5 guy, it could look like a completely different team.

crawford being the 5 on 5 guy was in an article I read yesterday that was linked on this site. I think SoA might have originally posted it. The article was referencing PD'S 1200 interview this week.

 

[bert]

Boucher realizes he's a lame duck here. I guess he is pretty desperate to save his name and career. I also think Boucher can talk circles around Dorion when it comes to tactics on the ice. Dorion can say he wants more up tempo play and Boucher can tell him 15 ways he will achieve that and Dorion can only laugh and say ok Guy that's what I want make it happen.

Great point, probably why he still has his job. As much as I dissagree with Bouchers tactical style and handling of young players I am extremely confident he understands the game much better than Dorion.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

You may dislike Dorion as a GM but I would say that the consensus is Dorion is a good scout, no?

Do scouts have to be good at understanding the game to be good at their job?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You may dislike Dorion as a GM but I would say that the consensus is Dorion is a good scout, no?

Do scouts have to be good at understanding the game to be good at their job?

Yes but not to the same degree as an NHL coach and its a completely different skill set. Can you imagine Dorion getting behind the bench and delivering a comprehensive way for his team to play?

 

[Micklebot]

You may dislike Dorion as a GM but I would say that the consensus is Dorion is a good scout, no?

Do scouts have to be good at understanding the game to be good at their job?

I don't know how you could be a good scout without a good understanding of the game...

 

[Ice-Tray]

“There is so much disinformation floating around, that it's enough to get the mildest folks wound up as we see in here.”

Who, in your opinion, are the “mildest folks” as opposed to “the others”? Honestly, no sarcasm. Really wondering what your call is...

I've been around here a long time, my point is that all of the swirling negative news, along with the rumours and innuendo has changed the way lots of people tend to post over the years. Obviously with tougher times come tougher moods, but this seems to be different. A dark funk has descended over the board leading to most posts being sad, unhappy, nervous, upset, cynical, and endless jabs at all aspects of the team. It didn't used to be this way, though we also didn't used to have such turbulent ownership.

Something has to steady the ship, and I'm hoping it's a great draft, excellent signings, and a hopeful looking roster heading into next season.

As for a list of 'who'? Come on man, I'm not about to create a list. I'm not looking to call people out or make this into an accusatory post, lots of parts, me included, have made a general shift, it reminds me of a slowly listing ship before it sinks beneath the cold unforgiving waves.

 

[bert]

You may dislike Dorion as a GM but I would say that the consensus is Dorion is a good scout, no?

Do scouts have to be good at understanding the game to be good at their job?

From what I understand Dorion is a good amateur scout yes. He hasnt done much pro scouting, when he was assistant GM his job was to direct the amateur scouts. I dont think his trades or signings have reflected an executive that understands the pro game at an elite level no. He is out of his element as an NHL GM and it has showed.

Scouting amateur and understanding the pro game are very different traits. Boucher played hockey at a high level has coached all different levels he has far more tangible experience than Dorion. Dorion never even played Jr B. I dont think he has a very good hand on how dressing rooms work or what makes a pro tick.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You should definitely feel that way. There was/is a clear rift between Boucher and EK. I would say the probablity of EK being moved has risen to maybe 90% from 75% previously. It may even be a done deal already.

Are you suggesting, because of your speculation of a "rift" between GB & EK65, that the Senators have chosen GB over EK65?

If that is your assertion, then it's the worst possible decision, not only by the Senators, but by any NHL franchise in the history of the NHL.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Are you suggesting, because of your speculation of a "rift" between GB & EK65, that the Senators have chosen GB over EK65?

If that is your assertion, then it's the worst possible decision, not only by the Senators, but by any NHL franchise in the history of the NHL.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

From what I understand Dorion is a good amateur scout yes. He hasnt done much pro scouting, when he was assistant GM his job was to direct the amateur scouts. I dont think his trades or signings have reflected an executive that understands the pro game at an elite level no. He is out of his element as an NHL GM and it has showed.

Scouting amateur and understanding the pro game are very different traits. Boucher played hockey at a high level has coached all different levels he has far more tangible experience than Dorion. Dorion never even played Jr B. I dont think he has a very good hand on how dressing rooms work or what makes a pro tick.

Also its one thing to watch and evaluate aspects of a player. Speed, Power, Edges, Shot velocity, Release, IQ, Vision, Positioning, Physicality, Strength, Attitude, Discipline but another to game plan, situational schemes (systems), practice plan, lineups, roles, opponent matching plus all the soft skills a coach needs to communicate effectively.

 

[aragorn]

Unless they bring in new players or the players they have now on the roster play better I just don't see a whole lot of difference between next yr's team & this past yr's team when it's basically all the same players & coaches. There are three areas that I think need to improve next season but whether these players or these coaches can improve it will remain to be seen. Are they rebuilding or going for it again? Does anyone know? Do they?

First, goaltending has to improve, without good goaltending not only will they not make the playoffs they will be a bottom feeder again next season. Second, special teams have to also improve, they had all kinds of trouble scoring last yr & keeping the puck out of their net. Improving special teams even a little could mean the difference between being in the playoffs or being bottom of the league again.

Third, coaching, I'm hoping that this season was a humbling experience for GB & that he will have learned something. The fans hate his systems, the players seem to hate the systems & they seem to complicated for the players he has. He needs to simplify & find a way for his players to execute better on the ice.
The players also have to be better & stop trying to be so cute with the puck & attack the net much more often. Less passing around the horn & more shooting the puck at the net to create more chances. They need to play more of a north/south game & less of a east/west game & they have to stop the blind passes & giving it away for no reason. Puck possession & puck protection needs to be a priority.

They also need to start inserting youth into the lineup & removing older players sooner rather than later. And I personally don't want to see another one of GB's former players on this roster, that experiment was not very successful last yr, no need to repeat it again this yr.

 

[BonkTastic]

I also think Boucher can talk circles around Dorion when it comes to tactics on the ice. Dorion can say he wants more up tempo play and Boucher can tell him 15 ways he will achieve that and Dorion can only laugh and say ok Guy that's what I want make it happen.

I know it's a meme around here to insinuate that Pierre Dorion is a blithering, drooling moron, but I have to draw a line in the sand here and call this out.

I don't like Dorion as a General Manager. Most of us don't... but this is a thoroughly ludicrous 3 lines of text.

I'm with you on a lot of things, SoA, but I have to get off the meme train here.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I know it's a meme around here to insinuate that Pierre Dorion is a blithering, drooling moron, but I have to draw a line in the sand here and call this out.

I don't like Dorion as a General Manager. Most of us don't... but this is a thoroughly ludicrous 3 lines of text.

I'm with you on a lot of things, SoA, but I have to get off the meme train here.

Fair enough

 

[BonkTastic]

Are you suggesting, because of your speculation of a "rift" between GB & EK65, that the Senators have chosen GB over EK65?

I think there is the possibility that Karlsson has already chosen Free Agency/ silently requesting a trade over the Senators (through indirect channels, of course), or that Karlsson has let it be known that his salary demands will be more than Melnyk is willing to stomach, and plans are already in place to move on from the EK era.

If this hypothetical scenario were real, then it really doesn't matter what the team does with Boucher as it relates to Karlsson. I would be less "choosing Boucher over EK", and more "Well, EK's as good as gone, let's figure the rest of this mess out".

 

[aragorn]

If we trade EK, then we are nowhere close to a bubble team on the rise. We MAY get a decent package in return if we don't tie an anchor contract to the deal, but that package will be futures based and won't help for next season when we won't have our pick and the reward for sucking.

The bottoming out will have just begun and with an owner not willing to invest in the team, suspect goaltending, a coach with a noose around his neck and Dorion at the helm your optimism flies in the face of reason.

Terrifying is a far better word for this offseason.

I would expect that with any EK deal that a 1st rd pick for next season would be part of the deal. Having said that though, where it will rank is a different story & could be further back than the pick Col will have. However, they could always take that new 1st rd pick & add a player of some significance (Pageau or Smith or both) to try & move up. Or stock pile some more picks by moving those players & others.

It seems a decision needs to be made as to what this team is doing. Are they rebuilding for the future or tweaking the roster for another playoff run? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that yet. If they are rebuilding then moving out the older players & inserting the younger players makes sense & should be done starting now & throughout next season.

If they are tweaking than I assume they are trying to improve certain positions & when the team has as many weaknesses as this team, this strategy seems like a much harder path. As fans, what is our expectation for next season? IMO most fans would be happy with bringing up more prospects & not care as much how the season goes. In fact, that might be a good way to rid of GB. However, if people expect to make the playoffs next season then I'm not sure playing prospects will work out & it's more likely they bring in different vets. And while we don't know what direction this team is taking for next season, IMO rebuilding is the better option. I just don't see a long playoff run from this team given budget & personnel. I guess we'll see.

 

[aragorn]

Yes but not to the same degree as an NHL coach and its a completely different skill set. Can you imagine Dorion getting behind the bench and delivering a comprehensive way for his team to play?

I have no idea what PD behind the bench would look like but we have seen it numerous times in the NHL where a coach is fired & the GM completes the season as GM & coach. Who knows he could be better than GB.

That didn't go well for Montreal, did it? Roy went on to win a couple of cups with Colorado after that. And it's a great example of the team siding with the coach who was terrible when they should have sided with the player & fired Tremblay. Ottawa had the same problem with Clouston & should have fired him & made Heatley happy, instead they traded Heatley, their only 50 goal scorer in recent history & went downhill from there.