Boucher and his system are a joke

[Spazkat]

I think it can work very well but i also think its very hard for the players to commit to it over many seasons. Its boring for the players aswell, atleast i thought that when i was playing. All teams do it pretty much every game because it can be very effective and its a good way to slow down the opponent but having it as the main strategy must be horrible for the players.

I'm surprised to find out that professional hockey players would rather "have fun" than play a system that wins them games. Who knew?

 

[CCM19]

Hey look it’s a bunch of guys on the internet who think they know more about systems than this NHL coach.

Fun.

How many NHL games have you guys won again?

 

[JD1]

I get that it must be frustrating, but these players are supposed to be professionals. If he got them to game 7 double OT of the ECF, you'd think they would get enough faith in his system to not collapse completely like they have

this right here might be the most credible post by a leaf fan about the Sens I've seen on this board

 

[Korpse]

Okay. Check their offensive zone possession time and let me know where it ranks. Also check their offensive zone puck retrievals and entries and where those ranks.

They fall into a defensive posture and hope to create on the counter too often.

Yes, literally conceding offensive zone play.

I'm not denying that they spend more time defending than they do attacking, thats clear as day. Personally I attribute it more to their DZ coverage, its very passive and leads to the opposition spending a lot of time on the perimeter. Which is why their SA is so much better than their CA, last year they were 24th in CA while being 12th in SA. Right now they sit 19th in CA and 6th in SA.

6 years. And it shows how they line up in the neutral zone quote clearly.

Ottawa it's more of a 1-2-2 with the defensemen stepping up as the play approaches the redline, they also line up with a 1-1-3 with three players on their blue line.

 

[Pookie]

I (sarcastically) like the word "unsustainable"

Your team plays a different team each night. Those opponents may or may not be healthy. They may adjust to your team's tendencies as part of what is known in some circles as a "game plan."

Shocker alert: they may even adjust between periods.

They may play a back up goalie. They might be coming off a road trip or be well rested. Winning streaks always end. Losing streaks always end (well except for the Oilers ). And so on.

So many variables yet in some circles they seem to think this is a game where you pick a system just put it into "auto play" mode for every game and every shift against every opponent and you will win the Cup.

Apparently the least useful members of a hockey staff are the video staff, scouts and analysts that prep for each game... or should I say each independent event?

Unsustainable? Glad this beautiful game is more complex than that.

 

[aufheben]

Hey look it’s a bunch of guys on the internet who think they know more about systems than this NHL coach.

Fun.

How many NHL games have you guys won again?

Were you under the impression that this was a forum for NHL coaches?

 

[Pookie]

Funny though. No one thinks their team traps.

My Leafs do it whenever they have a lead. I'm sure your teams do as well.

The single point is way too valuable to give up.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Ottawa doesn’t play a 1-3-1, and every team plays some sort of trap.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I'm surprised to find out that professional hockey players would rather "have fun" than play a system that wins them games. Who knew?

Well the 'system' isn't winning the Sens much games this year

 

[Korpse]

Funny though. No one thinks their team traps.

My Leafs do it whenever they have a lead. I'm sure your teams do as well.

The single point is way too valuable to give up.

Only reason Boucher gets attention for it is because it gets talked about in the pre game shows. Ottawa surprised some people last year and there were questions as to why.

 

[Pookie]

Only reason Boucher gets attention for it is because it gets talked about in the pre game shows. Ottawa surprised some people last year and there were questions as to why.

Yeah. I think the pregame shows in most markets serve to foster the Urban Legend that "Possession hockey" wins games.

The trap is seen as anti-possession and for some reason some fans can't get it through their visors that there are many ways to play this game. And teams change it up frequently.

Yet the fallacy is that the Possession crowd also believes in Score Effects to explain the fact that teams get outshot and win.

It's said teams play conservative with the lead. I can buy that. (I don't buy the notion of weighting shots as less significant when losing to help prop up the hyopthesis but that's a side bar).

But if we accept teams alter their style with a lead, we can acknowledge that at times they trap then?
- No, they are a possession team.

A possession team that traps at points in the game with the lead?
- No, the trap doesn't win games

And the losing team with the puck more and lion's share of the possession can't tie the game up?
- Right. Because they aren't a good possession team. They are a trap team.

?

 

[MasterDecoy]

Its why his players eventually give up on him.

Its a system that destroys your owns teams talent, and is frustrating to play with for those guys with skill.

montreal should have hired boucher. we don't have any skills.

 

[martin langlois]

the real joke is mike babcock he like more hyman rthan marner and nylander nd play crap like bozak and hyman with them because he is an idiot with his ugly women he had this clown behind the bench

 

[WesMcCauley]

Funny though. No one thinks their team traps.

My Leafs do it whenever they have a lead. I'm sure your teams do as well.

The single point is way too valuable to give up.

All teams trap and all teams do it every game. Difference between doing it in certain situations and having it as your main strategy.

 

[NyQuil]

I like how no one can find a clip of Boucher coaching Ottawa so they keep showing the exact same years-old clip of him coaching Tampa Bay as some form of evidence.

Meanwhile, everyone seems to beat the Senators and their "system" except for the Rangers.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I never understood how anybody could criticize the Lightning in that Flyers game. Isn't the incentive to move play on the team that actually possesses the puck? Could you imagine a football team refusing to snap the ball because they don't like how the defense is lined up? Or a batter refusing to step in the batters box because they don't like a defensive shift?

 

[Root]

to be fair that system led to the Senators playing well above their head last year and making it farther in the playoffs than their talent should have let them go.

if you average out their projected record this year with their record last year it would probably even out to what they really are...a team that is just outside the playoff picture (even with Karlsson playing out of his mind).

 

[Sky04]

We saw the same thing in Tampa. He had the team play well for the first season only to decline the year and a half after. It appears he can be figured out.

Yeah not like having no offensive depth, a defense lead by Eric Brewer/Brett Clark and a 2 sub .900 goaltenders had anything to do with it. Should get your facts straight, look at the goaltenders he had while in Tampa. Besides MSL, Stamkos and Lecavalier didn't have a problem producing under him. He didn't hinder Stamkos one bit.

The year he got canned in TB, he had Anders Lindback 2.9GAA .902sv% as his starting goaltender, backed by Garon 2.9GAA, .897sv%.

In 2011 for their ECF run, he had Mike Smith 2.90GAA, .899sv% and Dan Ellis 2.93GAA .899sv% for 50+ games before they acquired Roloson who looked like a godsend by posting average numbers.

Year after that Tampa finished 10th in the conference with Roloson(40 games) .886 sv% 3.6GAA, Garon (48games) 2.85GAA .900sv%, Tokarski .879 sv% 3.45GAA, Caron .877 sv% 3.12GAA, his best defenseman were Eric Brewer and Brett Clark.

Find me a coach in the past decade who had worse goaltenders to work with in a 3 year span.

 

[JianYang]

I've never heard high risk and Boucher be said in the same sentence like the OP just did.

While his stints in Tampa and Ottawa are following a similar trajectory, I think it's a coincidence more than anything else.

He didn't have a goalie in Tampa. You can't coach your way out of that in the long run. In Ottawa, his world class player has hit a wall, which is predictable given the nature of his injury. Again, it's hard to coach your way out of problems on that team if karlsson isn't karlsson.

 

[sr edler]

My favorite game from that season.

 

[sr edler]

I've never heard high risk and Boucher be said in the same sentence like the OP just did.

High risk of curing insomnia.

 

[Pookie]

All teams trap and all teams do it every game. Difference between doing it in certain situations and having it as your main strategy.

Let's challenge that notion of a main strategy.

- this assumes that a team selects 1 main style of play for every opponent and every game AND that this style of play is the same .... if that's true, why have scouts and video analaysts?

- In a hockey game, you are likely on the PP for 6-10 mins a game. You are on the PK for 6-10 mins a game. This is up to 1/3 of the game on special teams. You also roll 4 lines with a variety of skills for the rest of it.

I'm not at all suggesting it's unlikely that a team may set up a trap right from the get go. A trap from the drop of the puck would make sense to me if you are coming off a road trip or have injuries. But I don't think a team picks a style of play on day 1 of preseason and sticks to that forever.

It's more realistic that they practice different systems, breakouts, d coverage forecheck, etc and employ them on a game by game or even shift by shift basis. On the latter, maybe you Trap Crosby's line but why bother doing it to the 4th line?

I think teams get labeled as trap teams (or possession teams) in the court of popular opinion which in most cases doesn't fully understand the game.

And let's be honest, how many that weigh in on this subject have spent time watching any team other than their own?

 

[These Are The Days]

And it's only gonna get worse folks.... A LOT worse. The Lightning weren't exactly a stellar team but Boucher's categorical refusal to adjust exacerbated every issue we had tenfold. Teams figured out how that all they had to do was skate faster than us and get behind our coverage on the dump and chase and we were dead in the water. Every weakness we had defending was exposed. And then the next thing to go was our power play. Once teams figured out "cover Stamkos" our power play just consisted of passing back and forth without shooting. I have never seen a coach so utterly mind f***ed before. Days turned into weeks, into months and he was mercifully let go.

To Boucher's credit he's rarely using the 1-3-1 lately -especially during the losing streak. He just runs a 1-1-3 or 3-1-1 however you want to say it. But the same problem in continuity continues.... he's so concerned about creating offense though neutral zone turnovers that the Senators literally never get to touch the puck to attack because other teams have figured out how to not screw up against them.

And when they do get the puck holy moly it's bad. It's such a cluster..

 

[TeamRenzo]

All teams trap and all teams do it every game. Difference between doing it in certain situations and having it as your main strategy.

Why wouldn't a team play some sort of trap? Why would you allow your opponent to slice through the neutral zone and come into your zone with speed? Oh yeah, some kid on the internet said it sucks...

 

[Riddum]

Oh this thread again, with the exact same video every time. Hilarious.

I agree. How about OP shows Sens videos to back his claims??