Proposal: Bos-Ott Ullmark for Norris, Forsberg + pick

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,912
2,272
So what Boston fans are saying is that on Ottawa he would have the same numbers ? You think any goalie in the league would win a Vezina playing for Ottawa right now ? Also I see talk of having to pay for an in division trade, Boston biggest need is a center so the same can be said for them. You want a center from Ottawa be prepare to over pay. All arguments have 2 sides to consider.

Just for the record . I hate the Sens and wanted Edmonton to get Ullmark when he was in Buffalo. Goalies just don't have the value the OP is asking for. Also going by Norris current season is short sighted as I am sure his injury has some lingering effects

Ullmark had better numbers it Buffalo than the current Sens goalies. Were the Sabres a power house as well? I'll reitirate. Ullmark would be the second best goalie in franchise history for the Sens.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dugg133

Registered User
Jan 11, 2023
1,388
3,475
It's the other way around. Boston makes their goalies better than they actually are.
Swap Korpisalo and Ullmark and there would be minimal change in the current standings.
this was true in the past, but not anymore. Our defensive structure has kinda collapsed this season, the goalies has been the reasoning we're winning games more times then not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AngryMilkcrates

Sting

Registered User
Feb 8, 2004
7,917
2,919
I don't think the Sens are in a position to give up young assets (though debatable that Norris is an asset) for a soon-to-be 31 year old who is an UFA in a year. Just makes no sense.

Having said that, the Korpisalo/Forsberg tandem need to go. I think they'd actually be right in the playoff mix had it not been for league-worst goaltending this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SweSensFan

bruins4thecup65

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
4,126
2,031
Norris gets paid 7.950 for 6 more years after this one, and is on pace for roughly 25g and 50p. There's no way in heII he doesn't currently have negative value, and that's coming from a Sens fan.

There's Certainly a chance he turns it around and becomes the player he was in 2021-22 but I'd certainly be quite surprised if Boston went all-in on that bet.

Pinto is the only realistic name Boston would probably entertain for one of their goalies.
Pinto and a 1rst , plus a top prospect maybe gets you Ullmark
 
  • Haha
Reactions: BradyTkachucky

Big Muddy

Registered User
Dec 15, 2019
8,642
4,115
I don't think the Sens are in a position to give up young assets (though debatable that Norris is an asset) for a soon-to-be 31 year old who is an UFA in a year. Just makes no sense.

Having said that, the Korpisalo/Forsberg tandem need to go. I think they'd actually be right in the playoff mix had it not been for league-worst goaltending this year.
Depends on what you mean by "right in the playoff mix". Even if they win all their games in hand, they'd still be 10 points behind the last wild card seed in the Conference. I haven't seen the rest of the team play well enough on a consistent enough basis to close that gap plus we'd need a significant amount of cooperation (losing) from a bunch of conference teams to get there as well. Even when we went on that decent winning stretch of 8 - 2 - 2, we still only managed to leap frog one team (Columbus).
 

Adele Dazeem

Registered User
Oct 20, 2015
8,754
5,041
On an island
Exactly! Well said.

People love to try and state Boston goalie's are a product of their system whenever it's convenient for their argument. That may have merit most years, but Boston is underwater in Corsi, Fenwick, Scoring chances etc. All of these stats fall in the bottom 3rd of the league. Jim Montgomery said during multiple winning streaks early this season, and I'm paraphrasing, that "he's happy their winning but the goalies are bailing them out on a nightly basis and this is unsustainable."

This argument also ignores that Ullmark hasn't always played for Boston. The guy put up very respectable numbers on an abysmal Buffalo team for 6 years.

Ullmark career Buffalo numbers: 2.78 GAA and .912 S%
Korpisalo this year Ottawa numbers: 3.41 GAA and .887 S%
Forsberg this year Ottawa numbers: 3.32 GAA and .892 S%

Those numbers show that even behind a bad defense, Ullmark puts up numbers that make him a starter.

Again, we can have honest arguments around "are goalie's worth a top-6 player" or "what's the cost in division to trade these pieces" or "who is really available from either team?" etc. But let's not start with a dishonest premise that Ullmark isn't miles better than what Ottawa has even behind that Ottawa defense.

You are one thing and that's a cherry picker.
I mean unfortunately that fan probably isnt wrong. If we trade for Ulmark he immediately falls off a cliff. How many goalies have been way worse in Ottawa over the last few years then they were elsewhere. Korpse went from 12.7 to -16 goals saved above expected. Talbot did a similar thing. If you want to see just how bad Ulmark can be, trade him to the sens.

This is what stat watchers don't pay attention to, and I have no time breaking it down to them.

Ullmark for Norris

Out-of-context HF bullshit

Ullmark has a year left, Norris is coming back from an injury and is locked up to a hefty contract that may or may not pay off.

Even with that caveat, these two players aren't in the same stratosphere of value.
 

Adele Dazeem

Registered User
Oct 20, 2015
8,754
5,041
On an island
this was true in the past, but not anymore. Our defensive structure has kinda collapsed this season, the goalies has been the reasoning we're winning games more times then not.

I like to value a player's worth over multiple seasons. Especially goalies where one year they're Stanley Cup champions and the next are getting sent to the AHL...Ottawa fans are quite familiar with the story hence my Korpisalo being maybe a tier below Ullmark and the difference making little change in Ottawa's current standing take.

Ottawa needs a couple solid D, a couple of veteran bottom-6 players and a coach who is going to whip them to shape. Only then can they go through a goalie carousel.
 

SweSensFan

Registered User
Feb 15, 2019
248
205
I like to value a player's worth over multiple seasons. Especially goalies where one year they're Stanley Cup champions and the next are getting sent to the AHL...Ottawa fans are quite familiar with the story hence my Korpisalo being maybe a tier below Ullmark and the difference making little change in Ottawa's current standing take.

Ottawa needs a couple solid D, a couple of veteran bottom-6 players and a coach who is going to whip them to shape. Only then can they go through a goalie carousel.
Respectfully I disagre. First of all there is a wide gap between the career stats of Ullmark and Korpisalo, easy to look up if you doubt me.

Second: Any team could upgrade their team but I would say Ottawas bottom 6 is ok right now. A very strong third line and a not so good 4th line. Could add 1 or two more fitting 4th liners and that is easy to find.

Then we need 1 solid rd. We will be fine with branny + chychrun as third pair or could swap Branny for a similarly prised bottom pairing D.

And most desperatly we need a goaltender that can play with some consistensy.

As for coach I'd say keep JM and Alfie for this season and maybe get someone like Berube in the summer.
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,130
2,825
It's the other way around. Boston makes their goalies better than they actually are.
Swap Korpisalo and Ullmark and there would be minimal change in the current standings.
This is such a tired argument. This is has been the story since Tim Thomas. The goalies were never as good as the stats show because of Boston’s system or d core. That’s two gm’s and three coaches at least at this point
 

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,130
2,825
You are one thing and that's a cherry picker.


This is what stat watchers don't pay attention to, and I have no time breaking it down to them.



Ullmark has a year left, Norris is coming back from an injury and is locked up to a hefty contract that may or may not pay off.

Even with that caveat, these two players aren't in the same stratosphere of value.
You’re right Ullmark is wildly more valuable. I love that Bruins fans are stat watchers describing our goalie. Maybe we know what he is and can attest to what he would bring to the Sens. As has been pointed out he was still great with the Sabres who weren’t exactly world beaters. You’re obviously allowed to oppose a trade or trade target and Ullmark being on his last year is a valid concern. You don’t need to add in the homerism. I guess I could say Norris would never put up big points again playing in a defensive system compared to what he did in his big offensive season.

Pinto and a 1rst , plus a top prospect maybe gets you Ullmark
Easy cowboy. I think Ullmark is very underrated on the boards to but this is way too much
 
  • Like
Reactions: SweSensFan

SweSensFan

Registered User
Feb 15, 2019
248
205
You’re right Ullmark is wildly more valuable. I love that Bruins fans are stat watchers describing our goalie. Maybe we know what he is and can attest to what he would bring to the Sens. As has been pointed out he was still great with the Sabres who weren’t exactly world beaters. You’re obviously allowed to oppose a trade or trade target and Ullmark being on his last year is a valid concern. You don’t need to add in the homerism. I guess I could say Norris would never put up big points again playing in a defensive system compared to what he did in his big offensive season.


Easy cowboy. I think Ullmark is very underrated on the boards to but this is way too much
I like your take man. Who knows how good Norris would be in Boston but I personally believe he will be better in the future than this season wherever he plays if he stays healthy!
 

Seachd

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
24,959
8,972
Like about 95% of the proposed trades then. But how far out of reason is it? Boston have two starters but need centers, Ottawa have 4 centres who are all to good to play on the 4th line (Stützle, Norris, Pinto and Greig) but need a starter. It did say '+ pick' in the headline.

I was looking for a debate around it, not suggesting it is a likely trade to actually happen!

“Out-of-context”.

It’s a joke based on the wording and the names. Like “McDavid for Vezina”.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
22,610
10,388
Boston needs a top 6 centreman, Ottawa needs a legit starter.

Norris is playing #2c now and has not have his best season after shoulder injury but has proven he can score at a 40+ goal a season pace. Forsberg will be a decent backup to Swayman.
Hey if Boston had confidence that Norris will bounce back as a 40ish goal guys sure but that's a huge contract to get just another 2nd line center with some injury history.
 

SweSensFan

Registered User
Feb 15, 2019
248
205
“Out-of-context”.

It’s a joke based on the wording and the names. Like “McDavid for Vezina”.
Ah I see. 😊 Yeah I would be surprised if he wins the vezina this season but I would be more surprised if he ever won the Norris!

But hey Erik Brännström is playing a ppg pace as a winger this season so never say never!
 

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
36,160
22,129
Visit site
What do you think moving a Vezina winner in division costs? If Ottawa wants him that's the cost
Lol OK have fun wasting this year with no top 6 centers and a goalie who is gonna sit on the bench who you're gonna have to dump anyway.

I hear ya! Mostly just entertaining the idea obviously. So would you consider trading Pinto for Ullmark?
No that's atrocious for Ottawa.
 

AngryMilkcrates

End of an Era
Jun 4, 2016
16,443
26,170
Yes, very simple. Simply stupid.
Ullmark is not worth a top 5-7 pick, are you nuts?
Trading the current Vezina holder to a team in their own division is certainly not worth a high 1st. <Sarcasm font>

Certainly would not change that team around either. Nope.
Keep your lottery 1st, hope he plays for you one day.

Lol OK have fun wasting this year with no top 6 centers and a goalie who is gonna sit on the bench who you're gonna have to dump anyway.

::Sits in the race for the Presidents trophy without any top 6 centers::

Ok
 
  • Like
Reactions: nbwingsfan

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
36,160
22,129
Visit site
Trading the current Vezina holder to a team in their own division is certainly not worth a high 1st. <Sarcasm font>

Certainly would not change that team around either. Nope.
Keep your lottery 1st, hope he plays for you one day.



::Sits in the race for the Presidents trophy without any top 6 centers::

Ok
Goal is to win the cup when they're this close they should be trying to make it happen. If I am a Boston fan I wanna deal Ullmark for a top 6 center. Maybe you don't think Norris is the right fit that's fine but you're wasting Ullmark on the bench and the cap. Other than Florida the east sucks. How many more years of prime Marchand are left?
 

BB79

Registered User
Apr 30, 2011
4,114
4,653
Other than Florida the east sucks. How many more years of prime Marchand are left?
It's only a matter of time before Toronto finally beats us in the playoffs. The "even a broken clock is right twice daily" law of averages is going to catch up to us. They beat TB last year, Matthews is having a career year this year. Running into Florida again will be a monumental task, I'd rather have Sway-mark in goal than only one and a shaky backup
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad