ToeMcDrag83
5-14-6-1
I don't think Taylor Hall has the character to overcome adversity at the NHL level.
I think he had it in spades. And the organization killed it.
I don't think Taylor Hall has the character to overcome adversity at the NHL level.
Eberle has been one of the worst defensive players in the game since he entered the league. Independent of who he plays with (mostly with Hall, for almost his entire career until this season), situation, role, etc. He bleeds more than any other player in the league (who is still a consistent NHL player). No, it isn't an issue of our defense sucking for his entire career. In fact, it is the opposite, Eberle (and Hall) drags our whole defense down defensively. People only think about it in the inverse. That our defense suck so much offensively that they drag our forwards down. No. It's the opposite. Our wingers drag our defense down defensively. And no, our defense is not good. So when you drag a bad defense down even further, you finish 30th in a 30 team league once again.
30GP filter
Jordan Eberle
GF ON/60 Rank GA ON/60 Rank ES TOI/60 Rank
2010-2011 2.22 236th / 399 3.08 357th / 399 14.10 63 / 399
2011-2012 3.63 7th / 407 3.08 374th / 407 14.00 104 / 407
2012-2013 2.98 63rd / 336 3.06 286th / 336 15.12 31st / 336
2013-2014 2.78 96th / 397 3.13 357th / 397 15.12 33rd / 397
2014-2015 2.77 107th / 411 3.10 379th / 411 15.76 3rd / 411
2015-2016 1.89 231st / 330 3.05 298th / 330 15.44 17th / 330
Averages 2.71 123 3.08 342 14.92 42
Produces 2.71 goals/60 vs giving up 3.08 goals/60, while getting top tier Ice Time at Evens.
That means every game, the Oilers can be expected to give up 0.77 goals when Eberle is on the ice at ES. They will score 0.67 goals.
2015-2016 is the first year that he hasn't been stapled to the Hall/RNH pairing, bouncing around the lineup a little bit
He remains one of the worst defensive forwards in the league, while also seeing his offense plummet. This includes his time with McDavid
Although he often does see stronger competition than, say, Bobby Butler in 2010-2011 or Derek Roy in 2014-2015, he also plays with
the top offensive threats on the team. So it helps his GF/20, while hurting his GA/20.
So, he averages about 3.08 goals against/60, which ranks him ~342nd in the league consistently ever year. The other players in his range are players that are no longer in the league. Again, players like Bobby Butler and Derek Roy, etc. Other guys whose careers are about ~2-3 years long and then drop out of the league.
But Eberle (and Hall) have been given this kind of rope for 6 years now. And awarded 6M long term contracts on top of that.
His only top tier offensive-production season was his 2011-2012 where his offensive "luck" was off the charts, but this production didn't even translate to wins or team success because he, once again, was absolutely putrid defensively. Maybe (without exaggeration) the single worst defensive player in the entire league that season.
When you give a player like this the "A" on your team, all the best minutes at ES and also PP, and then switch out your 4th liners and 3rd pairing defenders every season and wonder why nothing has gotten better, it feels like no one is even willing to acknowledge the real reasons why this team has been mired in its pit of suck, for lack of a better term.
Now, what you have to realize is that for his first ~3-4 seasons, fans loved this guy, absolutely loved him. He could do no wrong. If you criticized him in any form, you were mocked and ridiculed. So, he was given a free pass. Even coaches were fearful of fan reaction if they disciplined him (and Hall, again). When you are changing coaches every season, they know that they will lose their jobs if they are unpopular with both players and fans, and the team is losing again. So, Ebs and Hall could do anything they wanted on the ice as long as they keep leading the team in scoring, which they did.
So, they really never had any reason to change their game or their on-ice (or off) behaviors. Because everything was working great. They were stars, everyone loved them, it was the rest of the team that sucked and we just needed to improve the rest and we would be good. And here we are today, nothing has changed from day one back in 2011 or even 2010.
Eberle has been one of the worst defensive players in the game since he entered the league. Independent of who he plays with (mostly with Hall, for almost his entire career until this season), situation, role, etc. He bleeds more than any other player in the league (who is still a consistent NHL player). No, it isn't an issue of our defense sucking for his entire career. In fact, it is the opposite, Eberle (and Hall) drags our whole defense down defensively. People only think about it in the inverse. That our defense suck so much offensively that they drag our forwards down. No. It's the opposite. Our wingers drag our defense down defensively. And no, our defense is not good. So when you drag a bad defense down even further, you finish 30th in a 30 team league once again.
30GP filter
Jordan Eberle
GF ON/60 Rank GA ON/60 Rank ES TOI/60 Rank
2010-2011 2.22 236th / 399 3.08 357th / 399 14.10 63 / 399
2011-2012 3.63 7th / 407 3.08 374th / 407 14.00 104 / 407
2012-2013 2.98 63rd / 336 3.06 286th / 336 15.12 31st / 336
2013-2014 2.78 96th / 397 3.13 357th / 397 15.12 33rd / 397
2014-2015 2.77 107th / 411 3.10 379th / 411 15.76 3rd / 411
2015-2016 1.89 231st / 330 3.05 298th / 330 15.44 17th / 330
Averages 2.71 123 3.08 342 14.92 42
Produces 2.71 goals/60 vs giving up 3.08 goals/60, while getting top tier Ice Time at Evens.
That means every game, the Oilers can be expected to give up 0.77 goals when Eberle is on the ice at ES. They will score 0.67 goals.
2015-2016 is the first year that he hasn't been stapled to the Hall/RNH pairing, bouncing around the lineup a little bit
He remains one of the worst defensive forwards in the league, while also seeing his offense plummet. This includes his time with McDavid
Although he often does see stronger competition than, say, Bobby Butler in 2010-2011 or Derek Roy in 2014-2015, he also plays with
the top offensive threats on the team. So it helps his GF/20, while hurting his GA/20.
So, he averages about 3.08 goals against/60, which ranks him ~342nd in the league consistently ever year. The other players in his range are players that are no longer in the league. Again, players like Bobby Butler and Derek Roy, etc. Other guys whose careers are about ~2-3 years long and then drop out of the league.
But Eberle (and Hall) have been given this kind of rope for 6 years now. And awarded 6M long term contracts on top of that.
His only top tier offensive-production season was his 2011-2012 where his offensive "luck" was off the charts, but this production didn't even translate to wins or team success because he, once again, was absolutely putrid defensively. Maybe (without exaggeration) the single worst defensive player in the entire league that season.
When you give a player like this the "A" on your team, all the best minutes at ES and also PP, and then switch out your 4th liners and 3rd pairing defenders every season and wonder why nothing has gotten better, it feels like no one is even willing to acknowledge the real reasons why this team has been mired in its pit of suck, for lack of a better term.
Now, what you have to realize is that for his first ~3-4 seasons, fans loved this guy, absolutely loved him. He could do no wrong. If you criticized him in any form, you were mocked and ridiculed. So, he was given a free pass. Even coaches were fearful of fan reaction if they disciplined him (and Hall, again). When you are changing coaches every season, they know that they will lose their jobs if they are unpopular with both players and fans, and the team is losing again. So, Ebs and Hall could do anything they wanted on the ice as long as they keep leading the team in scoring, which they did.
So, they really never had any reason to change their game or their on-ice (or off) behaviors. Because everything was working great. They were stars, everyone loved them, it was the rest of the team that sucked and we just needed to improve the rest and we would be good. And here we are today, nothing has changed from day one back in 2011 or even 2010.
Is it though? People get fixated on the numbers and think. Theres an objective look at it.What a great post.
What i always suspected, that Eberle causes or gives up as many goals as he creates.
Eberle's GF/60 is right there as well in that post. He produces at around ~2.7 GF/60, which ranks him around ~120th league wide year-to-year. The real telling part of this is that, historically, Hall-RNH-Ebs have been together. Which means we are putting out 18M in a single line that is actually hurting our team against their distribution of matchups/competition. So, relative contributions will be flawed because the Oilers, more so than any other team, are so top heavy; they give their top players the absolute maximum opportunity to succeed, at the expense of the rest of the team. This is completely opposite to the truly elite players/teams, where their top players always "carry bums". Think Crosby's wingers. Kopitar's wingers. Prime Datsyuk's wingers. They actively "sacrifice" their top players, but their top players still rise above and (in the case of these 3 in particular) they still dominate their matchups even though they dont have the entire complement of their team's best resources to play with.
This means that when we play this line against the Bickell/Saad/Shaw-Toews-Hossa type lines of years past, we are spending more of our cap than our opponents on that power-on-power matchup. Ideally, you would win the matchup when you have your 3 most expensive assets paired together, but it isnt the case. The Toews line had a cap hit average of around ~13M, meaning the Hawks had an extra 5M to throw around on the rest of their team, to improve the rest of their team with. There is actually no other line in the league with the caphit of our historical first line (until now, with Toews's new 10.5M caphit, and Kopitar's as well). And yet, our first line consistently lost the power-on-power every single year.
So, not only are we giving our top line every opportunity to succeed, at the expense of the rest of the team, they are still not succeeding, and outright failing, to be completely honest and frank about it. So, media and fans, naturally, look to the rest of the lineup and how they are not as good, without even acknowledging that the configs of 6M-6M-6M are actively contributing to weakened team depth. No other team in the league configures their team to cater to their top players so much, and yet, our top line still doesnt outproduce.
The problem with the Oilers is and always has been it's top players. They simply are not good enough. Truly elite players carry their "scrub" linemates; they cause fans to wonder why Justin Abdelkader is playing on prime Pavel Datsyuk's wing when he has stone hands. They cause fans to laugh at Kopitar's revolving door of 10 different wingers/season. Not because Carter-Kopitar-Williams can't work, but because Kopitar doesn't need them to dominate at ES. Kopitar can take a Jordan Nolan or Dwight King or Trevor Lewis or Dustin Brown on his wing for games at a time because he will elevate them. Because with a 10M first line, he can still outplay the Oilers 18M first line.
Davidson is AHL fodder and will cost the team wins if he's even on the team next season?