Player Discussion BoJesus-Jangles Horvat

[Megaterio Llamas]

Nah, anything below McDavid's a steal.

LOL. I realize I have sort of called everyone out here for low balling Horvat based on what I perceive to be the inflationary market. Pretty bold of someone like me who pays scant attention to the business side of hockey I realize.

But hey, what can I say. That's what I see going on here. And don't worry, if I'm way off and he signs long term for under say, 6, I'll be back to eat a big slice of humble pie

 

[The Drop]

He has enough leverage to ask anything. Canucks are a joke.

You said he wouldn't sign here. You ever going to own up to all the nonsense you continue to post?

 

[me2]

LOL. I realize I have sort of called everyone out here for low balling Horvat based on what I perceive to be the inflationary market. Pretty bold of someone like me who pays scant attention to the business side of hockey I realize.

But hey, what can I say. That's what I see going on here. And don't worry, if I'm way off and he signs long term for under say, 6, I'll be back to eat a big slice of humble pie

Wennberg is the market setter for Horvat. $4.9m x 6.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Wennberg is the market setter for Horvat. $4.9m x 6.

Ah, but would you trade Horvat straight up for Wennberg? I certainly wouldn't. I have read this theory that Wennberg=Horvat in a few places but I don't believe it to be true personally. It's going to be interesting to see what the final figure is though, I have a hunch it'll be north of that.

 

[Street Hawk]

Now I wouldn't use him as a comparable if I'm on the side of wanting the cheapest deal possible but a 53 point 22 year old with career 0.57 points per game seems like a pretty good comparable to a 52 point 22 year old with a 0.51 points per game. And given first one was essentially suspended by his team a year or so ago and banished to the AHL well it makes some sense that could be the floor of the second player (if you ignore the other contracts around the league of course!)

Why the canucks are using that as a starting point (I didn't see that info so taking you at your word) is ridiculous. It should be where they ended up. If it was their starting point then I'd expect something close to a Monahan deal.

I personally don't get the view point of getting a cheap deal for the team. I'm past that point since every team blows a contract or two so I don't see it beneficial for a player to get under or over paid.

Like have the twins have really performed up to $21 million each over the past 3 seasons? At most, they were worth around $17 million over that time. Eriksson at $6 million?

I don't want to see a guy locked into a deal that underpays him like Jossi at $4 million per when he's a top 8 Dman in the league. Nor, do I want to see him get overpaid.

You figure out what he should be able to produce over the term of upcoming contract. You use what he has done in his ELC to give you a certain level of confidence that he will be able to hit that target going forward.

 

[DL44]

Ah, but would you trade Horvat straight up for Wennberg? I certainly wouldn't. I have read this theory that Wennberg=Horvat in a few places but I don't believe it to be true personally. It's going to be interesting to see what the final figure is though, I have a hunch it'll be north of that.

Elliot Friedmon had an excellent take on this on 650...

Canucks: Wennberg sets the bar.. same #'s.. $4.9
Horvat's agents: but Horvat is a waaaay more important youngen to your team than Wennberg is to his. Where is Van without Horvat vs CBJ without Wennberg with Johansen, Dubios, Jones, Werenski, etc..


Basically.... Wennberg created a FLOOR for Horvat.. not a comparable... (maybe)

 

[Zombotron]

i.e., today

 

[Hemty]

Finally.

 

[Peter10]

Isn't Friday normally the day you announce bad news? Maybe it is a bridge deal after all.

 

[tantalum]

Wennberg is the market setter for Horvat. $4.9m x 6.

One deal isn't a market setter. Several deals that typically span a significant range set the market. Columbus likely got a good deal on Wennberg but it's no guarantee the Canucks can or will get a similar good deal. There are poorer contracts out there for similarly aged players with similar stats over the last 120 or so games.

 

[Kickassguy]

Now I wouldn't use him as a comparable if I'm on the side of wanting the cheapest deal possible but a 53 point 22 year old with career 0.57 points per game seems like a pretty good comparable to a 52 point 22 year old with a 0.51 points per game. And given first one was essentially suspended by his team a year or so ago and banished to the AHL well it makes some sense that could be the floor of the second player (if you ignore the other contracts around the league of course!)

Why the canucks are using that as a starting point (I didn't see that info so taking you at your word) is ridiculous. It should be where they ended up. If it was their starting point then I'd expect something close to a Monahan deal.

Hey tant -- yeah, Friedman brought it up on the radio the other day. Benning and the Canucks used Drouin @ 5.5 as one of their comps, and Horvat's agent came in with Barkov @ 6.

 

[baxtefer]

6 yrs @ $5.5
not bad.

 

[ItalianCanuck1]

 

[ItalianCanuck1]

Sorry I try to find a discussion about him, but I didn't find anything so I create a new thread.

 

[rune74]

Is this a new player? It's about time we had a thread

 

[WTG]

There seems to be an issue with the search function. Don't worry, I found the discussion and moved it.

Just a heads up for next time.




Threads unlocked, maybe the search function wasn't broken and the thread was just locked... I blame the new website.

 

[iFan]

We really lucked out adding a guy like Horvat to our team, can’t wait till it’s his team and he’s wearing the C, nothing against the Hank.

 

[ItalianCanuck1]

Can't stop to watch this beauty.

 

[Ace of Hades]

McDavid esque goal right there. That speed.

 

[VanJack]

Yes...Horvat was clocked at 38.7 kmh in that dash to the net.....not far off McJesus and his 40 kmh burst down the right side against the Flames in the opener, which set the hockey world abuzz.....what Horvat has done with his skating since being drafted is almost unprecedented.

 

[Melvin]

Yes...Horvat was clocked at 38.7 kmh in that dash to the net.....not far off McJesus and his 40 kmh burst down the right side against the Flames in the opener, which set the hockey world abuzz.....what Horvat has done with his skating since being drafted is almost unprecedented.

Where did you see this? Link please.

 

[platotld]

Where did you see this? Link please.

They stated in the game, the same way everyone else was told McJesus was flying at 40.9.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Yes...Horvat was clocked at 38.7 kmh in that dash to the net.....not far off McJesus and his 40 kmh burst down the right side against the Flames in the opener, which set the hockey world abuzz.....what Horvat has done with his skating since being drafted is almost unprecedented.

The only thing that compares (sort of not really) is Kesler going from a shot that couldn't bruise a naked shin to having an unreal wrister. I assume both improvements were largely the result of an incredible work ethic and the ability to acknowledge weaknesses, great combo.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Going to bump this thread:

Horvat's play has disappointed me in the early going. His PPG/Conversion is fine, but that's really never been the issue with him. He appears to trade chances too readily (I know the current metrics have him as a low event player, but the chances against seem prime opportunities for the opposition). The DAL game hit this home for me.

Going from recall, Horvat hits the post on his rush in and then Radulov goes back and scores on a similar play. Horvat is so deep in the zone that he's pushing an already gassed Baertschi to catch the 2 on 1 going back. This is one play. In regulation, Horvat's line chose to trade chances instead of maintaining a greater shot differential than the opposition. To sum up, this is risky hockey. It can make the line look dangerous, but it opens them up to looking foolish on most nights as well.

This is not good enough for him IMO. I've supported this player for his power game, his tendency to generate in-tight high danger zone chances, his burst when rushing the puck and his overall ability to convert at a 2nd line level -- but he's got to now develop his game further. The expectations have to change. Either he clamps down on the defense, or he starts to convert at a greater than 50 point pace. One of these things has to occur this year.

 

[Royal Canuck]

Going to bump this thread:

Horvat's play has disappointed me in the early going. His PPG/Conversion is fine, but that's really never been the issue with him. He appears to trade chances too readily (I know the current metrics have him as a low event player, but the chances against seem prime opportunities for the opposition). The DAL game hit this home for me.

Going from recall, Horvat hits the post on his rush in and then Radulov goes back and scores on a similar play. Horvat is so deep in the zone that he's pushing an already gassed Baertschi to catch the 2 on 1 going back. This is one play. In regulation, Horvat's line chose to trade chances instead of maintaining a greater shot differential than the opposition. To sum up, this is risky hockey. It can make the line look dangerous, but it opens them up to looking foolish on most nights as well.

This is not good enough for him IMO. I've supported this player for his power game, his tendency to generate in-tight high danger zone chances, his burst when rushing the puck and his overall ability to convert at a 2nd line level -- but he's got to now develop his game further. The expectations have to change. Either he clamps down on the defense, or he starts to convert at a greater than 50 point pace. One of these things has to occur this year.

He's got 7 points in 11 games, +2, and logging important minutes on a team that's currently hitting way above their weight.

He might've made a bad play in OT, but to be "disappointed" with Horvat so far this season is pretty silly.