Bobby Smith

[GlitchMarner]

Could he have been better? I know he was a big guy. He had talent as well. It looks like he peaked early and then had somewhat of a second peak later on with MTL.

Can a guy like Lecavalier be considered somewhat of a comparable? Of course, Vincent was better. But I can't really think of a better modern example. I'm sure Bobby was more skilled than guys like Primeau and Holik.

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[The Panther]

I think you are right in suggesting Lecavalier as a comparable, although probably Vincent's peak (c.2006) was a little higher than Smith's. But they were both big, lanky men with great reach and good puck control.

I was actually thinking to nominate Bobby Smith in the "Great players who are almost forgotten" thread, because I feel like he is kind of forgotten. Smith outscored Gretzky in their only overlapping season in the minors (albeit Smith was three years older), and his first four NHL seasons showed ideal point increases: 74, 83, 93, and 114. That 114-point season followed the NorthStars' '81 run to the Finals, during which Smith had 25 playoff points.

That was all before my time. I watched Smith quite a bit with Montreal in the late-80s and a tad with Minnesota (again) in the early-90s. He was awesome with Montreal, just a really smart player who was strong on faceoffs and responsible defensively, as per the Habs' system then. He still managed to outscore Mats Naslund and Stephane Richer much of the time, but didn't seem to get as much media attention.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Of course, Vincent was better.

i don't see any reason to think that lecavalier was better than bobby smith, tbh

he did, however, get to play with a much better linemate than smith ever did.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Having watched them both I would say that Smith was better than VL; certainly the first half of his career. He later mirrored Lecavalier in that their compete levels dropped.

It seemed as Bobby's hair went, so did his top end game.........

With the money he made you'd think he could afford something better than that to put on his head...

 

[The Panther]

I could see Smith's career value being higher than Lecavalier's, but surely Vinnie's peak was higher, no...? Can I get a witness?

 

[Howie Hodge]

Actually I find them to be somewhat comparable. Both were productive until about 30.

Both about 6'4", and 215 lbs.

Bobby Smith played 1.077 games, putting up 1,036 points. (.96 ppg)

Vinny played 1,212 games, putting up 949 points. (.78 ppg)

Vinny played in a lower scoring era.

Pick your poison.

 

[The Panther]

Actually I find them to be somewhat comparable. Both were productive until about 30.

Both about 6'4", and 215 lbs.

Bobby Smith played 1.077 games, putting up 1,036 points. (.96 ppg)

Vinny played 1,212 games, putting up 949 points. (.78 ppg)

Vinny played in a lower scoring era.

Pick your poison.

I agree they're comparable overall, but I was talking about peak. In a three-year span (spring '04 to spring '07), Vinnie won the Cup, was MVP of the World Cup, and was a 2nd-team All Star while leading the NHL in goals -- and this with an entire NHL season in his prime wiped out. He didn't maintain that level, though.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i was never super impressed by lecavalier, though like everyone else i was certainly dazzled by him on occasion. during the 2004 world cup, he was good, but i don't think it was an especially memorable performance. i think it was more the case of a guy who had a good tournament and scored one big time memorable goal. i do, however, think he was a guy that the world wanted to make "happen," and so when he succeeded for that brief stretch, the world went out of its way to treat him like he had made it to that truly elite iginla/thornton level when really he was a step below.

i also think lecavalier was a very linemate-dependent player. he and vinny prospal had something really special, and you can see that he has his breakthrough '03 season with prospal (first line was modin/richards/MSL) then drops 12 points when prospal bolts for anaheim, then rebounds in '06 when prospal comes back. he peaks in '07 and '08, when torts stacks his top line with lecavalier between two-time art ross winner MSL and prospal, two excellent playmaking wingers. probably also worth noting that he was outscored by his playmaking winger in '03 (prospal, albeit by only a point), '04 (stillman), and '06 (prospal again).

i can't speak to bobby smith's play with minnesota the first time around, though by all accounts he was slick and not as physical as you'd like for a guy that size so probably very similar to lecavalier, but in montreal smith was a very good defensive player, albeit not taking on the responsibilities that carbonneau and skrudland did on those teams, and in his second go-around in minnesota he was excellent on a shutdown line with gaetan duchesne and stew gavin. (sidenote: one reason montreal was so dominant in the late 80s with no stars at forward? with three big huge guys at center ice, smith, carbo, and skrudland, there was only one team that could get the puck from them off the dot... that team had gilmour, and two other giants in nieuwendyk and otto.) lecavalier i don't think was ever anything defensively.

i'd be more inclined to compare bobby smith to someone like anze kopitar.

 

[Thenameless]

Panther, as vadim has mentioned above, it was probably more the timing of Lecavalier's peak than anything else. I am a fan of the French-Canadian players, and like many, was hoping for him to break out into true greatness and somehow end up on the Habs. In all honesty though, I kind of remember Bobby Smith as being a lot more skilled than Lecavalier. He was pretty magical when he had the puck - quick, soft hands. I'm not surprised by the stat you dug up about how he outscored Gretzky in one year of Junior (advantage and all). I have a friend who grew up in the Ottawa area, and everyone there who saw him play thought that he was going to be the next big thing. I believe his junior numbers are still up there with the best of them.

Considering that Lecavalier was drafted in the media/internet age with all of the hype that goes with that, I'd say the same expectation was probably on Smith when he was drafted.

 

[GlitchMarner]

. In all honesty though, I kind of remember Bobby Smith as being a lot more skilled than Lecavalier. He was pretty magical when he had the puck - quick, soft hands.

I find hard to believe he was much more skilled than Lecavalier.

I mean, Vinny was a VERY talented guy.

Do you maybe he was simply able to put it all together more often than Lecavalier outside of VL's peak years?

You mentioned that Smith's top-level went away over time - do you think he could have been as good as someone like Savard if he had been able to stay on top of his game longer? He's a guy who isn't really talked about when the best centres of the 80s are discussed - he was below the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Trottier, Savard, Stastny, Francis, Hawerchuk and others as a player... could he have been one of the more prominent Cs of his time if he had maximized his talent level?

I think Lecavalier certainly had the talent to be better than he was. He didn't help his career that he got hurt soon after breaking out, either, though.

 

[Thenameless]

You mentioned that Smith's top-level went away over time - do you think he could have been as good as someone like Savard if he had been able to stay on top of his game longer? He's a guy who isn't really talked about when the best centres of the 80s are discussed - he was below the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Trottier, Savard, Stastny, Francis, Hawerchuk and others as a player... could he have been one of the more prominent Cs of his time if he had maximized his talent level?

I think Lecavalier certainly had the talent to be better than he was. He didn't help his career that he got hurt soon after breaking out, either, though.

Savard would certainly be a possibility, though they were very different stylistically. Savard was spectacular with his spin-o-rama's and speed rushes, while Smith was a pleasure to watch because of his long reach and fantastic stick-handling skills. Smith can comfortably be the #1 centre of an NHL team, though he doesn't measure up to those other names you mention. If he's your #2 centre, you're probably going deep in the playoffs as a Cup contender.

 

[57special]

The Payne, Smith, McCarthy line on the North Stars was terrific offensively. Smith was nothing like Savard, and not too much like Lecavalier. Sort of a poor man's Beliveau stylistically. Or a rich man's Pete Mahovlich.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

It seemed as Bobby's hair went, so did his top end game.........

With the money he made you'd think he could afford something better than that to put on his head...

Funny you say that - as soon as I saw his name... I used to carpool with a guy from Newfoundland when Smith was the GM of the Coyotes, who always used to call him "the man with the cat on his head" in that Newfie lilt...so that's what I always think whenever I see that name

 

[Howie Hodge]

Funny you say that - as soon as I saw his name... I used to carpool with a guy from Newfoundland when Smith was the GM of the Coyotes, who always used to call him "the man with the cat on his head" in that Newfie lilt...so that's what I always think whenever I see that name

That's funny as h e l l ! I mean he went from a receding hairline to that cat like appendage on his head one year, it was like .

At least Billy Smith had the sense to ditch his "cat...."