WJC: Bob McKenzie's WJC Solution

[Aaron Vickers]

Via his twitter:

Very simple format change for WJC would make for a more competitive tournament and fewer blowouts. Here's how it would work:

Top 5 seeds play single round robin against each other to determine 1-5 placement. Bottom 5 seeds do same. Promote one team from bottom 5.

1 and 2 get byes into semis. 3 vs. 6 and 4 vs. 5 in QFs. 7 thru 10 play in relegation. Games would be closer and more competitive.

So what's the problem. It would be difficult to sell tickets in the 6-10 tier. That's the only shortcoming. Hockeywise, its great.

Thoughts? It would make for some great hockey.

Click to read more...

 

[bruinsfan46]

I actually really like the idea. He is right about selling tickets for the second group, but maybe the increase of marquee games in the first group which will sell better will offset the losses? And how exactly are the seeds for each year determined?

 

[jessebelanger]

There's a problem with the WJC?

 

[Siberian]

Actually great idea!!!! I would support it, no doubt. Also I would eliminate disadvantage to the Q-final participants that they have to face fresh semifinalist without any rest.

 

[Stripes]

I don't like a format where the Top 5 seeds are guaranteed medal round games. I don't think those round robin games would be terribly entertaining because of that. That, and if one of those teams shows up and completely ****s the bed, they won't have to save themselves from relegation. They will still get a QF spot.

I agree that something needs to change, because 16-0 blowouts are not fun to watch. However, this proposal is not what needs to be done. I would rather see this tournament go back to 8 teams instead of 10.

 

[Caesium]

A format like this would make mostly everything except the medal rounds meaningless and it would prevent the lesser hockey nations from getting hot and being a dark horse. It would further ensure that teams coming up from relegation never get a shot at a medal.

 

[theaub]

I would like it better if the top two teams from the lower pool got into the QF and the last place team from the top pool had to play in the relegation tier. I mean, if you finish last in the first group you're probably not good enough to win anyways, and it gives some extra importance to the round robin games.

So 1/2 in Group "A" get byes, and then 3A plays 2B and 4A plays 1B.

 

[surshot*]

Pointless just keep it the same. The Czechs got blown out by Sweden and they are considered to be the fifth best team. Plus we should be able to play the bottom teams so they have a measuring stick for there programs. Nothing wrong with the odd blow out and its made to much of a big deal anyways.

 

[GKJ]

There's a problem with the WJC?

Yeah. Blowouts.

We don't want competitive athletes to have their feelings hurt too much.

 

[Freudian]

Sounds more like cosmetics to pretend the hockey world has more parity than it really has.

There are only 2, possibly 3, teams that have the quality to make the finals each year. Canada is one of them. It is just the way things are. There will be blowouts no matter how much we cuddle the best on the way to the finals.

 

[kingfisher]

or, they could make it so countries could trade players and sign free agents to contracts with appealing offers

 

[Stripes]

Yeah. Blowouts.

We don't want competitive athletes to have their feelings hurt too much.

It's not about that.

As a hockey fan, I wouldn't buy a ticket to a game that I know is going to be a blowout. They are not entertaining.

Games like Canada vs. Latvia don't help the Latvians get better and they don't do anything but pad stats for the Canadians.

As I said before, this tournament should be an 8-team event with one team going down and one team coming up every year.

 

[Aarex]

I think those countrys relish the chance to play power house teams, how do you improve without playing against hard competition.

 

[GKJ]

It's not about that.

As a hockey fan, I wouldn't buy a ticket to a game that I know is going to be a blowout. They are not entertaining.

Games like Canada vs. Latvia don't help the Latvians get better and they don't do anything but pad stats for the Canadians.

As I said before, this tournament should be an 8-team event with one team going down and one team coming up every year.

Lativa will never beat Canada if they never play them.

Good for you if you don't want to buy the ticket for the game. Looks to me that plenty of other people would love to go in your spot. It's not so much for your entertainment as it is in the spirit of competition.

 

[jessebelanger]

Lativa will never beat Canada if they never play them.

Good for you if you don't want to buy the ticket for the game. Looks to me that plenty of other people would love to go in your spot. It's not so much for your entertainment as it is in the spirit of competition.

Agreed.

Bob McKenzies solution is, in my opinion, pretty short sighted. It's going to result in 5 teams pouring tons of time and money into their team knowing that, between the 5 of them, there is only 1 spot to move on. That's hardly encouraging OR fair.

 

[Stripes]

Lativa will never beat Canada if they never play them.

Good for you if you don't want to buy the ticket for the game. Looks to me that plenty of other people would love to go in your spot. It's not so much for your entertainment as it is in the spirit of competition.

What competition? That's my point. There is no competition in these games. It doesn't help either team. All that talk about measuring yourself against a powerhouse is bull****. Teams like Latvia won't get better by being blown out by Canada. They're just going to get relegated and be back to where they started 2 years ago in the never-ending cycle for the 2nd tier teams at the U20 level. Occasionally one of these teams gets lucky and stays up, but that happens on a rare occasion and it never lasts for more than 2-3 years. They don't get better because they don't have the resources and the amount of elite players to choose from that the "powerhouses" do.

The only games worth watching in this tournament are the medal rounds. The round robin at this tournament has become pretty damn predictable. In that sense, I can understand where Bob Mackenzie is coming from with his suggestion. That said, the games still have to be played and I understand that. I'll just watch games that I feel will be hockey games and not glorified scrimmages for one team.

 

[GKJ]

What competition? That's my point. There is no competition in these games. It doesn't help either team. All that talk about measuring yourself against a powerhouse is bull****. Teams like Latvia won't get better by being blown out by Canada. They're just going to get relegated and be back to where they started 2 years ago in the never-ending cycle for the 2nd tier teams at the U20 level. Occasionally one of these teams gets lucky and stays up, but that happens on a rare occasion and it never lasts for more than 2-3 years. They don't get better because they don't have the resources and the amount of elite players to choose from that the "powerhouses" do.

The only games worth watching in this tournament are the medal rounds. The round robin at this tournament has become pretty damn predictable.

That's because no one can friggen beat Canada. Canada is that far ahead of everyone else. It was only earlier this decade that Canada went through a drought because they didn't win for 7 years in a row. Canada has won the tournament 5 years in a row. Maybe we should shut down the whole tournament since no one can beat Canada. It's not competitive for the other teams.

You want to be entertained. The other teams just want to play. I can see why Canadians only want the tournament to be pared down to 8 teams. One day Canada, for whatever reason, is going to lose and that team will be looked at as a national disgrace. No one was talking about contracting the tournament when Canada wasn't winning it.

 

[octopi]

i suggested something like this, only his is more intricate.

Basically, theres really no point in having obvious beatdown games, is there?

 

[Drake1588]

The biggest problem with the format is that there is a system in place wherein the last slots at the tourney are decided by a round held a whole year earlier, such that the team that earned the berth passes on, and a team that is made up of younger and now eligible players enjoys the fruits of that victory.

It penalizes the players who earned that berth, unjustly rewards players that didn't, and sends a team that may or may not be the best of the second/third tier to the U20 WJCs every year.

Automatic berths for the top seven (Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA, Czech Republic, Slovakia). Re-schedule the qualification tourney for, say, November of the same year as the U20 and you might see fewer teams that don't belong on the same sheet of ice at the WJCs. It's not a complete solution, but it would be an improvement. Not only do you have the teams that are the current 'best of the rest' making it, but those squads have had a unifying experience about six weeks or so prior to the U20s. Rather than an All-Star Team, with the requisite unfamiliarity, those countries send genuine teams that have played together in the recent past.

The problem with this proposal to create two tiers is that the federations in the countries concerned aver that they benefit from the drubbings at the hands of the top tier. They believe those experiences help those countries to improve, and this would take away that opportunity.

 

[GKJ]

You could do that or don't allow 19YO's to play in the lower divisions. That way the team who qualifies still gets to use the guys who got them there. You'd be taking out the players who in essence set them up to fail. That or let them use those players if you're going to have the tournament the year before.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

The problem with the proposed solution, beyond that no one wants to see a 9th seed v. 10th seed game is that the seeding itself decides who makes it through the round robin automatically (the top 5 seeds) and even if 2 or 3 bottom seeds are playing well above their heads, only one of them could ever move on.

 

[I Ron Butterfly]

The biggest problem with the format is that there is a system in place wherein the last slots at the tourney are decided by a round held a whole year earlier, such that the team that earned the berth passes on, and a team that is made up of younger and now eligible players enjoys the fruits of that victory.

It penalizes the players who earned that berth, unjustly rewards players that didn't, and sends a team that may or may not be the best of the second/third tier to the U20 WJCs every year.

Automatic berths for the top seven (Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA, Czech Republic, Slovakia). Re-schedule the qualification tourney for, say, November of the same year as the U20 and you might see fewer teams that don't belong on the same sheet of ice at the WJCs. It's not a complete solution, but it would be an improvement. Not only do you have the teams that are the current 'best of the rest' making it, but those squads have had a unifying experience about six weeks or so prior to the U20s. Rather than an All-Star Team, with the requisite unfamiliarity, those countries send genuine teams that have played together in the recent past.

The problem with this proposal to create two tiers is that the federations in the countries concerned aver that they benefit from the drubbings at the hands of the top tier. They believe those experiences help those countries to improve, and this would take away that opportunity.

I don't think many club teams will release their players for well over a month.

 

[GKJ]

The problem with the proposed solution, beyond that no one wants to see a 9th seed v. 10th seed game is that the seeding itself decides who makes it through the round robin automatically (the top 5 seeds) and even if 2 or 3 bottom seeds are playing well above their heads, only one of them could ever move on.

Again with the entertainment value.

It's not about what people want to see (except when they schedule USA/Canada every year in New Year's Eve). In these tournaments, it's just as much about the spirit of the competition itself. In their mind, a meaningless 9 v. 10 game is just as important as 1 vs. 2. By your logic, who wants to see 1 v. 2 when they're going to perhaps meet again anyways (with Bob's formula, 1 v. 2 would be a game just to see who gets the last change in a potential Gold Medal Game). It would be the only tournament in the world that works in this fashion. No other tournament on the planet would have so many teams play so many meaningless games based on seeding.

 

[Stripes]

That's because no one can friggen beat Canada. Canada is that far ahead of everyone else. It was only earlier this decade that Canada went through a drought because they didn't win for 7 years in a row. Canada has won the tournament 5 years in a row. Maybe we should shut down the whole tournament since no one can beat Canada. It's not competitive for the other teams.

You want to be entertained. The other teams just want to play. I can see why Canadians only want the tournament to be pared down to 8 teams. One day Canada, for whatever reason, is going to lose and that team will be looked at as a national disgrace. No one was talking about contracting the tournament when Canada wasn't winning it.

Canada isn't that far ahead of everybody else. Russia, Sweden, USA and Finland (and up until a few years ago, the Czechs) are all capable of pulling off the upset, as long as their best players actually play and don't stay with their pro teams in Europe. Slovakia and Switzerland are usually good enough not to lose by 7 or more goals. Canada has had some damn close games during the last 5 years. Just look at last year's semi-final. Russia was 5 seconds away from knocking Canada off.

It's the games against Latvia, Austria, Germany, Ukraine, Kazakhstan (or whoever else might make it up for a year) that are utterly pointless. The call to contract the tournament back to 8 teams has been going on for a while from a lot of people.

 

[FLYLine27*]

There's a problem with the WJC?

Nope....16-0 games are so exciting!!