Bob McKenzie on last night's broadcast: "Are [the Leafs] going to win the Cup? No."

[GalacticaActual]

Did anyone find that odd? I don't think the Leafs are going to win the Cup, but it would have been better to say "Probably not" instead of saying outright "No". If you make it in, anything can happen. The Leafs are in a comfortable wild card spot right now. They are the highest scoring team in the league. They are red hot, winning 10 of their last 12 games. They are getting superb goaltending from both their starter Bernier and their backup Reimer.

Most important of all, their team is not playing like the Leafs teams of past years. In the past they would run 3 lines, depend heavily on the Kessel line, and could never cycle the puck. This year, the Kessel line is still a little weak defensively and does not cycle, and as usual they are performing very well offensively. But on top of that Kessel success, the other three lines are all cycling and forechecking hard. Kadri especially has god-like possession numbers, if you follow Corsi and Fenwick at all. Bottom six players like Santorelli, Winnik, and Komarov have added a unique kind of grit to the lineup. They won't fight players like Orr and McLaren, but they hit, battle, forecheck, backcheck, and cycle for the puck extremely well - they will take a hit and make hits to win a battle for the puck, which is extremely important in today's NHL.

I'm not saying the Leafs are going to win the Stanley Cup. But I am saying that they are playing well this year, and not the kind of "they're playing well" we've seen in years past, where they depend on one line and collapse at the end of every game. The Leafs are actually playing decent hockey this year. They still have a lot to learn, but they have what it takes to make the playoffs, and I think once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen.

No, I don't think they're going to win the Cup. But when someone asks "Will the Leafs win the Stanley Cup?" I wouldn't say unequivocally NO. I would say "Not bloody likely" at worst, or "Anything can happen" at best. I just think it's a bit arrogant to confidently state they will not win as if it's a fact.

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[Pi]

Bob McKenzie is an assclown, I think we all should know that by now.

Correction: arrogant assclown.

 

[Ciao]

No reason they can't win. It was very odd.

 

[Bluelines]

Did anyone find that odd? I don't think the Leafs are going to win the Cup, but it would have been better to say "Probably not" instead of saying outright "No". If you make it in, anything can happen. The Leafs are in a comfortable wild card spot right now. They are the highest scoring team in the league. They are red hot, winning 10 of their last 12 games. They are getting superb goaltending from both their starter Bernier and their backup Reimer.

Most important of all, their team is not playing like the Leafs teams of past years. In the past they would run 3 lines, depend heavily on the Kessel line, and could never cycle the puck. This year, the Kessel line is still a little weak defensively and does not cycle, and as usual they are performing very well offensively. But on top of that Kessel success, the other three lines are all cycling and forechecking hard. Kadri especially has god-like possession numbers, if you follow Corsi and Fenwick at all. Bottom six players like Santorelli, Winnik, and Komarov have added a unique kind of grit to the lineup. They won't fight players like Orr and McLaren, but they hit, battle, forecheck, backcheck, and cycle for the puck extremely well - they will take a hit and make hits to win a battle for the puck, which is extremely important in today's NHL.

I'm not saying the Leafs are going to win the Stanley Cup. But I am saying that they are playing well this year, and not the kind of "they're playing well" we've seen in years past, where they depend on one line and collapse at the end of every game. The Leafs are actually playing decent hockey this year. They still have a lot to learn, but they have what it takes to make the playoffs, and I think once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen.

No, I don't think they're going to win the Cup. But when someone asks "Will the Leafs win the Stanley Cup?" I wouldn't say unequivocally NO. I would say "Not bloody likely" at worst, or "Anything can happen" at best. I just think it's a bit arrogant to confidently state they will not win as if it's a fact.

Yes or No. Do you think Toronto can beat LA, Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series?

 

[Ciao]

Yes or No. Do you think Toronto can beat LA, Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series?

Yes.

 

[GalacticaActual]

Yes or No. Do you think Toronto can beat LA, Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series?

For some reason, they have Anaheim's number. But the playoffs are a different beast.

I say "Probably not" to all three teams. If I am only allowed to say "Yes" or "No" (and those are my only two choices) then I have to choose No. But that's only because of the way you structured your question. No one put a gun to Bob McKenzie's head and said "Yes or No?"

 

[agropop]

McKenzie's right...

Don't think they were asking Bob to wax philosophical on the topic, they wanted him to offer an opinion and commit to an answer. I agree with the one he gave.

We can all acknowledge the merits of 'anything can happen', but really, it's a non answer to virtually anything. It's what I tell myself while buying lottery tickets.

 

[ConnorTO]

**** that *****

Toronto is #1

 

[SprDaVE]

Yes or No. Do you think Toronto can beat LA, Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series?

Technically, it's possible. Realistically, probably not.

I don't think you understand the OP's point. This isn't about odds, it's about the definite answer McKenzie said that the Leafs wouldn't win. If the Leafs do make the playoffs, god forbid, then they have at least a slim chance of doing something. To say it's impossible is being pretty stupid to be quite honest.

It reminds me of 2 years ago when McKenzie said it was impossible for the Leafs to miss the playoffs. Fast forward a couple months later...

 

[Arizonan God]

It's his job to give strong opinions like that.

 

[Myke]

Bob McKenzie is an assclown, I think we all should know that by now.

Correction: arrogant assclown.

I think the majority of us would disagree with you... Generally speaking he gives honest, correct, and rational answers on topics. More so than most that's for sure.

 

[Mess]

Bob McKenzie simply believes there are better & more proven teams that are Cup competitive.

Leafs have also played 21 of their first 31 games at home which more than any other NHL team and home ice advantage and winning games is always a higher %. Leafs will now have 31 of their last 51 on the road where wins will be harder to come by.

A hot streak does not a Cup make and are we even certain the Leafs will be in the playoffs this year as we have seen what happens in the last 20 games for this team?

His opinion might change if the Leafs become a better puck possession team and give up less shots against and don't rely on high shooting and save % to win games. As long as they continue to get outworked, outshot and outplayed he will likely remain skeptical of Leafs Cup chances.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think he's wrong but over the years I've noticed he's generally less respectful and more derisive of the Leafs compared to other teams.

 

[headwire]

For some reason, they have Anaheim's number. But the playoffs are a different beast.

I say "Probably not" to all three teams. If I am only allowed to say "Yes" or "No" (and those are my only two choices) then I have to choose No. But that's only because of the way you structured your question. No one put a gun to Bob McKenzie's head and said "Yes or No?"

If the only two choices to the question are "yes" and "no", then the answer has to be yes. Anything can happen in a 7 game series. In reality, the answer is "unlikely", but given only two choices I go with "yes".

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Bob McKenzie is an assclown, I think we all should know that by now.

Correction: arrogant assclown.

 

[ULF_55]

Funny that we have some here bending over for some advanced stats for individuals, even when the stats in question are not appropriate for individual player evaluations, but want to ignore them for their true purpose, an aide to predicting future outcomes.

Based on advanced stats alone what is the expected outcome of the Leafs season? Do those stats predict a Cup performance?

What should McKenzie have done, ignore both the eye test and advanced stats and say they are going to win the Cup?

 

[Kubus]

I think McKenzie's comments have more to do with the fan base, and even the people who love to hate on the Leafs.
I mean just look at some of the silliness on this board. Some people get overly hyped because of a good streak. Lots of teams get hot and cold for a bit. Others bring up teams from the past that have nothing to do with the current roster and they believe this is a logical argument. What the organization did 3, 4, 5+ has next to nothing to do with the current roster, and how this roster will perform, but it gets brought up almost every day.

I think McKenzie took a good step back and compared today's roster/team, to the other teams as they are in the NHL today. Like he said, this team is neither a favorite to win the cup nor a lottery team. We are a team still trying to find their way.

 

[GalacticaActual]

Funny that we have some here bending over for some advanced stats for individuals, even when the stats in question are not appropriate for individual player evaluations, but want to ignore them for their true purpose, an aide to predicting future outcomes.

Based on advanced stats alone what is the expected outcome of the Leafs season? Do those stats predict a Cup performance?

What should McKenzie have done, ignore both the eye test and advanced stats and say they are going to win the Cup?

Our Corsi and Fenwick are predicting another collapse? I did not realize that.

 

[shakes]

Bob McKenzie simply believes there are better & more proven teams that are Cup competitive.

Leafs have also played 21 of their first 31 games at home which more than any other NHL team and home ice advantage and winning games is always a higher %. Leafs will now have 31 of their last 51 on the road where wins will be harder to come by.

A hot streak does not a Cup make and are we even certain the Leafs will be in the playoffs this year as we have seen what happens in the last 20 games for this team?

His opinion might change if the Leafs become a better puck possession team and give up less shots against and don't rely on high shooting and save % to win games. As long as they continue to get outworked, outshot and outplayed he will likely remain skeptical of Leafs Cup chances.

The Leafs are still a very good road team. Last time I looked they had points in 8 of 10 on the road.

People keep saying "oh it's a hot streak.." as a way of discounting something but neglect to imagine that "hot streaks" can happen at any time. If they are this good during a hot streak, what happens if they have one come playoffs? It's a ridiculous answer to say out and out "No". Everyone knows that anything can happen during the playoffs. He's just saying it to get a reaction like this. It's verbal clickbait. If he were a website, he would be Buzzfeed

 

[ULF_55]

Our Corsi and Fenwick are predicting another collapse? I did not realize that.

Your only options are a collapse or the Cup?

How did you arrive at that?

 

[shakes]

Funny that we have some here bending over for some advanced stats for individuals, even when the stats in question are not appropriate for individual player evaluations, but want to ignore them for their true purpose, an aide to predicting future outcomes.

Based on advanced stats alone what is the expected outcome of the Leafs season? Do those stats predict a Cup performance?

What should McKenzie have done, ignore both the eye test and advanced stats and say they are going to win the Cup?

I'll help him..

"Are the Leafs going to win the cup? Probably not but.." and then he could go off spouting whatever it was he was trying to say. These talking heads know better than to talk in absolutes.

 

[GalacticaActual]

Your only options are a collapse or the Cup?

How did you arrive at that?

No, I thought YOUR only options were a collapse or a Cup. You misinterpreted my post as badly as I misinterpreted yours. My entire OP is full of middle ground that doesn't include a collapse or Cup.

 

[achtungbaby]

I'll help him..

"Are the Leafs going to win the cup? Probably not but.." and then he could go off spouting whatever it was he was trying to say. These talking heads know better than to talk in absolutes.

So we hate the media for pointing out the obvious and giving non-answers and now we're to dislike them for truthfully giving their opinion? If Bob had been asked if the Habs will win the cup with the same answer given I bet no one has a problem with it.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He could have said 'most likely not' instead of just 'no', but it doesn't take much thinking to realize that what he is basically saying is 'I wouldn't pick Toronto to win, and I don't think it is likely at all that they are in the race for it' which is a perfectly fair opinion.

Just because the 'No' in itself makes it sound like he said there's no chance at all doesn't mean we should ignore all context and treat it that way, that's just looking for a misunderstanding.

Do we want experts who gives thoughtful and interesting answers, or ones that are superb at making sure nothing they say can ever be misconstrued?

In general, I find that a lot of people are way too prone to go looking for a reason to misunderstand, rather than try a bit to see the point that is being made. In a society where this was done different, we would probably have less loudmouths as experts and more open and expressive players. As it is now it's hard to even write a post like this, even if you take your time to make sure you express your opinion as clearly as possible, as you know there might just be posters that will somehow manage to misunderstand in a way that makes it seem on purpose.

I respect the hell out of Bob, even when he has a negative opinion about something I care about or disagree with me on something. It's the same thing on this board. Some of the posters I respect the most are ones that I disagree with a lot.

 

[Mess]

If you're an employed Hockey Insider by profession as McKenzie is.. As such you're knowledgeable on the topic, and asked if a team that has missed the playoffs in 8 of their last 9 seasons and not won a playoff round since 2003 (12 years ago) are going to win the Cup this year and he answers "NO" in his professional opinion.

I for one am not surprised nor shocked nor offended for that matter by that answer.

Has there ever been a team throughout NHL history that has?

A 10-12 game streak over the course of a 82 game season isn't going to sway opinion dramatically, nor should it, particularly with over 1/2 a regular season left to play. IMO