Bob Cole Quarterfinals: Philadelphia Flyers vs. Hartford Whalers

[Sturminator]

Philadelphia Flyers
Coach: Claude Julien
Captain: Henri Richard
Assistant Captains: Doug Harvey, Don McKenney

Paul Thompson-Henri Richard-Larry Aurie
Lynn Patrick-Bill Cowley-Steve Larmer
Dave Balon-Don McKenney-Jimmy Ward
Camille Henry-Troy Murray-Andy Hebenton
Jiri Lala, Harry Smith, Tom Lysiak

Doug Harvey-JC Tremblay
Pat Stapleton-Lloyd Cook
Bobby Rowe-Steve Duchesne
Jack Portland

Martin Brodeur
Evgeni Nabokov​

PP1
Paul Thompson-Bill Cowley-Camille Henry
Doug Harvey-JC Tremblay

PP2
Lynn Patrick-Henri Richard-Larry Aurie
Pat Stapleton-Steve Duchesne

PK1
Henri Richard-Larry Aurie
Doug Harvey-Lloyd Cook

PK2
Dave Balon-Troy Murray
JC Tremblay-Pat Stapleton

PK3
Don McKenney-Jimmy Ward
Doug Harvey-Bobby Rowe

Vs.

Cyborg Yzerman's Whalers

GM - Cyborg Yzerman
Head Coach - Tommy Ivan
Assistant Coach - Bruce Boudreau
Team Captain: Peca
Assistant Captain: Trottier
Assistant Captain: Blake

Gillies - Trottier - Bossy
Hadfield - Ratelle - Gilbert
Lambert - Peca - Ciccarelli
Drury - Draper - Dineen
Briere

Foote-Blake
Pronovost-Morrow
Reinhart- Stackhouse
Jovanovski

Parent
Liut
Vokoun

PP1
Gillies-Trottier-Bossy
Pronovost-Blake

PP2
Ciccarelli-Ratelle-Gilbert
Reinhart-Stackhouse

PK1
Peca-Drury
Foote-Morrow

PK2
Draper-Gilbert
Pronovost-Blake​

Click to read more...

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Best of luck to my opponent. I'm currently at Nationals with my hockey team, so I probably won't be on too much for the next few days. Hopefully I can get some thoughts in.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Adam Foote on a first pairing is enough of an eye-sore. Adam Foote on a first pairing playing out of position...yikes.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I feel Philadelphia is one of the strongest team.Maybe weak offensively on the 1st line but they have Cowley on the 2nd.

You have to hand it to the Trottier-Bossy duo, even if putting Gillies with them has been called out as a bad strategy you should still expect it to be one of the best line in the league.

Then he reproduce another line on the 2nd line.Yeah I really like the Whaler's top 6, probably more than your average GM.Don't like that bottom 6 though, Peca and Draper seems redundant.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Then he reproduce another line on the 2nd line.Yeah I really like the Whaler's top 6, probably more than your average GM.Don't like that bottom 6 though, Peca and Draper seems redundant.

I think it means Peca will be glued to Cowley each and every game.

 

[Sturminator]

I feel Philadelphia is one of the strongest team.Maybe weak offensively on the 1st line but they have Cowley on the 2nd.

The weakness of the second line is that Patrick and Cowley are both among the softest players in the draft. He's asking for Steve Larmer to carry a ton of water for this unit. Larmer was a tough guy, but he was not physically dominant in an ATD sense, and he's pretty much been given one of the labors of Hercules here.

Claude Julien behind the bench also stands out as a relative weakness.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The weakness of the second line is that Patrick and Cowley are both among the softest players in the draft. He's asking for Steve Larmer to carry a ton of water for this unit. Larmer was a tough guy, but he was not physically dominant in an ATD sense, and he's pretty much been given one of the labors of Hercules here.

Agreed on this.. Larmer played all those games while not shying away from anything and doing his fair share of digging but he wasn't a guy who imposed himself physically, either.

Claude Julien behind the bench also stands out as a relative weakness.

I don't think he'd get along very well with Cowley that is for sure.
Agreed

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Regarding Julien: He's going to love 90% of my roster, it's laden with two-way gritty players. Every team needs skill to be able to win, and Julien knows that. That line is going to get incredibly soft and favorable matchups and zone starts, almost all in the offensive zone. They're so insulated throughout the rest of the lineup that I think it's plenty workable.

For the record, here are where Julien's teams ranked in terms of goals against in his time as head coach: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5, 10, 10, 12, 12, 23

And one of the 12s and the 23 were partial seasons. That's an average of 7.33 per season. That's better than Babcock (8.58), Quenneville (7.58), Trotz (10.67), Laviolette (17.5), Vigneault (7.5), Tippett (11), Hartley (15.42), and Boudreau (14.89). Only Darryl Sutter and Hitchcock are better.

If people really don't like my second line, I can swing Lynn Patrick up to the first line, and Thompson to the second to make a balanced top six.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Forward Breakdowns

First Line: Trottier-Bossy is an unreal duo to start a first line in this thing, and they by themselves give the Whalers an advantage in first lines. Gillies is a huge weak spot on a first line in this draft, but he brings the requisite toughness and known chemistry. The Whalers' group is better offensively and overall, Philadelphia's is worlds ahead defensively.

VsX

Gillies: 59.7
Trottier: 93.5
Bossy: 96.6

Total: 249.8

Thompson: 83.2
Richard: 86.2
Aurie: 72.7

Total: 242.1

VsX is also not the best measure to look at Henri Richard considering he got considerably less PP time than probably every other 1st liner in the draft. Despite that, the Philadelphia unit isn't that far behind numbers-wise. I think it's advantage Whalers because of Trottier-Bossy, but it's not by that much, especially considering how strong Philadelphia's line is defensively.

2nd Line: Another known commodity with a strong C-RW duo, and a very weak LW in terms of offense for the Whalers. Both units are average at best defensively with Larmer and Ratelle carrying the loads, and Hadfield and Larmer supplying all the physicality. Hadfield's tougher than Larmer so the Whalers are more physical overall, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because Philadelphia's line is definitely ahead offensively.

Hadfield: 62.9
Ratelle: 88.5
Gilbert: 80.2

Total: 231.6

Patrick: 80
Cowley: 97.4
Larmer: 72.1

Total: 249.5

Advantage Philadelphia.

3rd Line: Lambert and Balon are pretty similar players in terms of style, but Balon is a step above offensively and defenisvely. He has a 7 year VsX of 53.5 with only 17% of his points coming on the PP, and Lambert has a score of 49.4, but 25% of his points came on the PP. Since neither will be playing the PP here, offense is an advantage to Balon. Both were strong two-way players that played a willing physical game. My read on it is Balon was used to check star RWs, whereas Lambert was more of a strong up-and-down winger that backchecked hard. I think Balon is the better player.

Peca is a much better defensive center and is more physical, McKenney is much better offensively. I think the gap offensively is bigger than the gap defensively (VsX of 75.8 with 23.5% of points coming on the PP vs. 48.4 with 22.8% of points coming on the PP). But Peca won two Selkes, which is something very few players can say. May come down to preference which people prefer, I'd rather have McKenney.

Ward and Ciccarelli are similar in terms of VsX (Dino has a slight advantage 69.9 to 60), but Ward is a much better two-way player. Overall, Ward is a better player.

Advantage Philadelphia. Ward and Balon are definitely superior players, with the centers being more a matter of preference. Philadelphia's line is better offensively, and they're about even in terms of defense and toughness.

4th Lines: Drury is a great two-way player with grit, but I'm surprised at how weak of an ES scorer he was. A whopping 38% of his points came on the PP, and he averaged just .40 ESPPG. Henry averaged .42 ESPPG, despite playing in a lower scoring era. Drury's two-way play and grit make him better at ES overall despite worse offense, but Henry's overall impact on the series will be bigger considering his important role on my first PP and his prowess there.

Draper and Murray are basically the same players, physical two-way players that each won a Selke Trophy. They're about even.

I was considering Dineen when I selected Hebenton, and they're both similar players. Both are hard workers that backchecked hard, and had some grit. Hebenton had a VsX of 61.4 with 28% of his offense coming on the PP, and Dineen 54.1 with 28% of his offense coming on the PP. Hebenton is better offensively, Dineen more physical. They're about even as players overall.

4th lines are basically a wash. Draper/Murray and Dineen/Hebenton are pretty much even, and while Drury is a better overall ES player, Henry contributes more to the series overall when you look at his PP work.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Defense

Defense is the bread and butter of the Philadelphia team, and its strength really shows through in this matchup. Since we've taken a different approach to distributing our best defensemen throughout our pairings, I'll compare the #1 to #1, #2 to #2, etc.

#1 (Harvey vs. Blake): Massive advantage to Philadelphia, Blake is a high end #2 here gallivanting as a #1, and Harvey is the second best defenseman of all time.

#2 (Tremblay vs. Pronovost): moderate advantage to the Whalers, both are high end #2 defensemen but Pronovost has better top end award recognition.

#3 (Stapleton vs. Foote): clear advantage to Philadelphia. I'm not sure who the #3 here is for the Whalers, my guess was Foote considering he's on the top pairing. In an ideal world, I would put both Foote as a #4 and Morrow on a bottom pairing. Stapleton has significant awards recognition (3 2nd team AS appearances) that the other two can't come close to matching.

#4 (Cook vs. Morrow): advantage Philadelphia. Cook was recognized as an elite player in his day (3x 1st team AS, 3x 2nd team AS) in the PCHA, and Morrow received two votes for the Norris Trophy in his entire career.

#5 (Rowe vs. Reinhart): advantage Philadelphia. Rowe is a similar quality defenseman to Cook with 3 1st team AS selection and 2 on the 2nd team. Reinhart was a strong offensive defenseman that received scattered voting support, but struggled to stay healthy en route to playing an average of 59 games a year.

#6 (Duchesne vs. Stackhouse): Duchesne is better offensively, Stackhouse better defensively. Duchesne has a much better voting record, but those should not be totally taken at face value. I'd rather have Duchesne, but could see why some would prefer a more well rounded Stackhouse.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I'll be posting my thoughts tonight, I was away for the weekend in Raleigh, do I apologize about the delay. Also, best of luck to my opponent as well.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Goaltending

Both Brodeur and Parent were known for being money in the playoffs, so they'll both be at the top of their game. Brodeur gives Philadelphia a pretty clear goaltending advantage. He's #5/6 all-time in my books, and Parent is about average, somewhere between 15-18.

PP1

Henry and Gillies are the net guys on each PP, and Henry is much better. His 7 year VsX of 68.6 is much better than Gillies' 59.7, and has the following top 10 finishes in PPG: 1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 5, 6, 7, 9. Gillies has a 7th and 8th place finish.

At center, Cowley comes out ahead of Trottier 97.4 to 93.5. Advantage Philadelphia at center.

The other wings are a clear advantage to the Whalers, as Bossy blows Paul Thompson out of the water.

Harvey is a much better PPQB than Blake, and Pronovost/Tremblay seem about even. Nobody has calculated Pronovost's finishes in a bio, and I'm not putting the work into doing it and I can't imagine he comes out looking better than JC Tremblay.

First units are an advantage to Philadelphia.

PP2

If you add the VsX up across the board for the forwards, it's virtually identical with Philadelphia having 238.9 and the Whalers having 238.6. So the forwards are a wash, and it comes down to which group has the superior defensemen.

Here are the top 10s of each guy:

Stapleton: 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 9
Duchesne: 2, 4, 4, 5, 9, 9

Reinhart: 2, 4, 5, 6
Stackhouse: 3, 6

Philadelphia clearly has the superior group, and therefore gets a moderate advantage on PP2.

PK

Richard>Peca, Aurie>Drury, Harvey>Foote, Cook>Morrow. Philadelphia advantage.

Balon<Draper, Murray>Gilbert(did he ever kill penalties?), Tremblay<Pronovost, Stapleton<Blake. Whalers advantage.

 

[Dreakmur]

PP1

Henry and Gillies are the net guys on each PP, and Henry is much better. His 7 year VsX of 68.6 is much better than Gillies' 59.7, and has the following top 10 finishes in PPG: 1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 5, 6, 7, 9. Gillies has a 7th and 8th place finish.

At center, Cowley comes out ahead of Trottier 97.4 to 93.5. Advantage Philadelphia at center.

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. Even on the PP, you have to actually get the puck before you can score with it. Yes, once the puck is on Philadelphia's stick, they'll Henry and Cowley are better than Gillies and Trottier, but they are going to be much less effective in getting it in the first place.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Henri Richard better than Peca on the PK?

I think Peca was a mini-reach overall when drafted due to lack of offense, but come on.

 

[Sturminator]

Henri Richard better than Peca on the PK?

I think Peca was a mini-reach overall when drafted due to lack of offense, but come on.

Considering that Henri basically never played on the penalty-kill in his actual career, yeah, that's a little strange. Penalty-killing is a skill, peeps, one you have to practice to get really good at. This is the reason people like Bill Hajt and Kelly Miller can play on ATD PKs without it seeming strange. I don't really know what to make of Henri Richard as a penalty-killer seeing as he clearly didn't practice this skill, but I'd have to rate him lower than a number of other scoringline guys of his generation who clearly did regularly kill penalties like Howe, Keon, etc.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Huh, I guess I assumed Richard killed penalties because he was such a strong two-way player. Forgot that those Habs always had the role players take care of those duties, and Richard only had 3 SHP his whole career so he definitely didn't PK much. Would people think Murray would be a better option there? Even with Richard/Murray being worse than Peca, Philadelphia still has the superior unit.

In terms of puck retrieval, Gillies will certainly win more dump-ins and battles in the corner than Henry, but does that nullify the fact that Henry is that much more effective when the puck is in front of the net? Tremblay and Harvey were both extremely good at rushing the puck and controlling the pace of play, so hopefully that first unit will rely more upon carrying the puck in and getting clean zone entries with possession rather than dumping it in.

 

[seventieslord]

Defense

Defense is the bread and butter of the Philadelphia team, and its strength really shows through in this matchup. Since we've taken a different approach to distributing our best defensemen throughout our pairings, I'll compare the #1 to #1, #2 to #2, etc.

#1 (Harvey vs. Blake): Massive advantage to Philadelphia, Blake is a high end #2 here gallivanting as a #1, and Harvey is the second best defenseman of all time.

#2 (Tremblay vs. Pronovost): moderate advantage to the Whalers, both are high end #2 defensemen but Pronovost has better top end award recognition.

#3 (Stapleton vs. Foote): clear advantage to Philadelphia. I'm not sure who the #3 here is for the Whalers, my guess was Foote considering he's on the top pairing. In an ideal world, I would put both Foote as a #4 and Morrow on a bottom pairing. Stapleton has significant awards recognition (3 2nd team AS appearances) that the other two can't come close to matching.

#4 (Cook vs. Morrow): advantage Philadelphia. Cook was recognized as an elite player in his day (3x 1st team AS, 3x 2nd team AS) in the PCHA, and Morrow received two votes for the Norris Trophy in his entire career.

#5 (Rowe vs. Reinhart): advantage Philadelphia. Rowe is a similar quality defenseman to Cook with 3 1st team AS selection and 2 on the 2nd team. Reinhart was a strong offensive defenseman that received scattered voting support, but struggled to stay healthy en route to playing an average of 59 games a year.

#6 (Duchesne vs. Stackhouse): Duchesne is better offensively, Stackhouse better defensively. Duchesne has a much better voting record, but those should not be totally taken at face value. I'd rather have Duchesne, but could see why some would prefer a more well rounded Stackhouse.

hard to disagree with any of this, except at the end. I think Stackhouse was definitely a better all-around defenseman than Duchesne.

 

[Sturminator]

Philadelphia wins in 5
- Three stars: Harvey, Bossy, Brodeur