Bob Cole Quarterfinals: Los Angeles Sharks vs. Kenora Thistles

[Sturminator]

Coaching Staff : Cecil Hart and Father David Bauer
Captains : Geoffrion, Cashman, Orr
Alternates :

Wayne Cashman (A) --- Peter Forsberg --- Bernie Geoffrion(A)
Vyacheslav Starshinov--- Vladimir Petrov --- Bernie Morris
Pavol Demitra --- Craig Conroy --- Ed Litzenberger
Dave Trottier --- Steve Kasper --- Mike Foligno

Ex. Billy Boucher(RW), Alexei Yashin (C)

Moose Johnson --- Bobby Orr (A)
Ted Green --- "Bullet Joe" Simpson
Dallas Smith --- Don Awrey

Ex. Doug Young (D)

Georges Vezina
Seth Martin

PP1
Vyacheslav Starshinov --- Peter Forsberg --- Bernie Morris
Bobby Orr --- Bernie Geoffrion

PP2
Pavol Demitra --- Vladimir Petrov --- Ed Litzenberger
Ted Green/Bobby Orr --- "Bullet Joe" Simpson

PK1
Steve Kasper --- Dave Trottier
Moose Johnson --- Bobby Orr

PK2
Craig Conroy --- Peter Forsberg/Vladimir Petrov
Don Awrey --- Dallas Smith



​

Estimated Minutes:

Forward| ES | PP | PK | total
Peter Forsberg|15|4|1.5|20.5|
Bernie Geoffrion|15|4|0|19|
Wayne Cashman |15|0|0|15|
Vyacheslav Starshinov|14|4|0|18|
Bernie Morris|14|4|0|18|
Vladimir Petrov|14|3|1.5|18.5|
Ed Litzenberger |10|3|0|13|
Pavol Demitra |10|3|0|13|
Craig Conroy |10|0|3|13|
Dave Kasper |7|0|4|11|
Dave Trottier |7|0|4|11|
Mike Foligno |7|0|0|7|
Total | 138 | 25 | 14 |177

Defense|ES|PP|PK|Total
Bobby Orr|18|5|4|27|
Moose Johnson|20|0|4|24|
"Bullet Joe" Simpson |15|3|0|18|
Ted Green|16|2|0|18|
Don Awrey |10|0|3|13|
Dallas Smith |13|0|3|16|
Totals|92|10|14|116

Vs.​

Kenora THISTLES
1907 Stanley Cup Champions

Home Rink: Thistle Rink (1920), Kenora, Ontario
GM: papershoes & BenchBrawl


Dick Irvin

Tommy Phillips - Elmer Lach (A) - Maurice Richard (C)
Sergei Kapustin - Jeremy Roenick - Helmut Balderis
Alexander Yakushev - Jonathan Toews (A) - Ron Ellis
Dennis Hextall - David Backes - Stan Smyl

extra: Craig Janney, Steve Sullivan

Bill Gadsby - Tom Johnson (A)
Joe Hall - Jimmy Thomson
Viktor Kuzkin - Zinetula Bilyaletdinov

extra: Bryan McCabe , Alexander Gusev

Chuck Rayner
Hap Holmes​

Powerplay:
PP1: Alexander Yakushev - Jeremy Roenick - Maurice Richard - Viktor Kuzkin - Bill Gadsby
PP2: Tommy Phillips - Elmer Lach - Helmut Balderis - Joe Hall - Bill Gadsby/Jimmy Thomson

Penalty Kill:
PK1: Tommy Phillips - David Backes - Jimmy Thomson - Tom Johnson
PK2: Ron Ellis - Elmer Lach - Zinetula Bilyaletdinov - Joe Hall
PK3: Toews - Smyl

Noteworthy: We play Yakushev, our 3rd best winger, on the 3rd line to balance the offensive capabilities of our top 9.Kapustin takes his place on the 2nd line.

The Kenora Thistles
"...an early amateur men's ice hockey team based in Kenora, Ontario, Canada and formed in 1885 as a senior team by a group of 'Lake of the Woods' lumbermen. The club is notable for winning the Stanley Cup as an amateur team in 1907. The town is the smallest in population to have ever won the Stanley Cup"

Click to read more...

 

[ResilientBeast]

This will be a good one, good luck gentlemen I'll begin my attack some time tonight or tomorrow.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Hopefully papershoes can come back and help me with the debates because I have a lot of stuff going on, but I have some time now to comment on the series.

First of all congratulation on a strong team Resilientbeast.

-

1st line: Kenora's first line is much more dangerous and has just as much "intangibles" as LA's first line.They simply do not have a Maurice Richard kind of firepower to compete.Forsberg is better than Lach, but not in the same way Phillips is better than Cashman, who is one of the worst first liner in the entire league.This is especially puzzling as Forsberg-Geoffrion doesn't strike me as a duo in that much of a need for a "board" or "puck digger" specialist.LA's first line is physical enough but our 1st line is made of warriors not afraid of anything, and that's not to mention our defensive squad is very physical so won't be intimidated by anyone.

2nd line: I think LA's second line is better.I prefer Petrov than Roenick, I'm struggling to rank Morris in general.Basically it boils down to the fact Kapustin being a weaker winger.The rest is more balanced.

3rd line: There's a gulf between Kenora's and LA's third line.Kenora is vastly superior.Yakushev is a legit low-end 1st line LWer adding tremendous firepower for a 3rd line.Toews is much bettert han Conroy.The comparison of these lines is not close at all.

4th line: You have a good defensive line I have a good physical line, don't feel like splitting hairs for 4th lines especially since mine will see limited ice-time.

-

1st pairing: Obviously LA is much better.You have the best #1 and your #2 is better.This is the main strenght of LA's team.You will live or die by your 1st pairing.That being said I still have a legit #1 and a legit #2 and my pairing isn't weak.

2nd pairing: Kenora is better, Thomson is a low-end #2 high-end #3 and because of him my pairing is better.You have nobody on your 2nd pairing comparable.

3rd pairing: Smith is good for a 3rd pairing, Awrey meh.I think these pairing are about equal.Maybe yours is better due to Smith.That being said my spares at D are quite good with McCabe and Gusev.

-

Goalies: You have a good goalie while I don't.Vezina is clearly better than Rayner or Holmes.At least I have one of the best backup so injuries are not a concern.

-

Overall good match-up.I think my offensive firepower at the forward position is much better than yours, true you have Orr but I also have a good offensive defenseman in Gadsby to support my forward superiority at offense.My offense is dangerous and distributed over 3 lines, and it will be hard to put Orr against the 3 of those.

LA's strenght is the first pairing and goaltending.Kenora's strenght is offensive depth, character and one of the strongest group of wingers with four legit 1st line wingers in the squad.Maurice Richard is also one of the cluthiest player of all-time and he plays with his usual center Elmer Lach (R.I.P.).

Best of luck to everyone involved.

 

[ResilientBeast]

3rd line: There's a gulf between Kenora's and LA's third line.Kenora is vastly superior.Yakushev is a legit low-end 1st line LWer adding tremendous firepower for a 3rd line.Toews is much bettert han Conroy.The comparison of these lines is not close at all.

Depending on how much time Yakushev actually gets on the ice, you're likely wasting him putting him down on your third line.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Depending on how much time Yakushev actually gets on the ice, you're likely wasting him putting him down on your third line.

He's not going to see his ice-time decline.I will not play my 4th line that much so my 3rd line should see some reasonable amount of ice-time.If there's something that takes away from their ice-time Yakushev will be double shifted occasionnaly on Roenick's or even Lach's line.My power at the winger position enables me to easily rotate the line-up at will, as I have 3 LWers who can play top 6 duties.

Phillips,Yakushev and Balderis will see more or less the same amount of ice-time at even-strenght.Only Richard might play more and Kapustin a little less.

I can also play Phillips with Toews and Ellis for a more defensive minded squad if needed and put Yakushev with Lach and Richard which actually boost the defensive abilities of my 3rd line as well as boosting the offensive abilities of my 1st line.

 

[ResilientBeast]

He's not going to see his ice-time decline.I will not play my 4th line that much so my 3rd line should see some reasonable amount of ice-time.If there's something that takes away from their ice-time Yakushev will be double shifted occasionnaly on Roenick's or even Lach's line.My power at the winger position enables me to easily rotate the line-up at will, as I have 3 LWers who can play top 6 duties.

I'd love to see a minutes chart if either of you have a chance would really help me compare our teams.



Really need to emphasize how big the difference is between our top pairings.

Gadsby is a legitimate number one defenceman however he is completely overshadowed by Orr.

Johnson vs Moose is a little closer but I can't find a great bio that outlines his accomplishments well enough, but a quick glance at TDMM's old bio and HockeyReference really makes Moose look far better.
My top pairing is stacked compared to yours. Both my D are capable of playing nearly half the entire game and Moose will be taking additional shifts with my bottom pairing to help boost his EV minute count. I'd love to see how you plan to contain Orr. Usually the plan is forecheck him heavily and make him rely on his partner to move the puck. Except you're incapable of doing that since Moose is also an excellent skater and great puck mover.

Your D features to solid puck moving defencemen however only Gadsby is known for leading a rush, and my heavy forechecking style will key into Gadsby and force Johnson to move the puck more often. This will limit your D's ability to rush the puck a luxury I can with my top pairing.

Sure the inclusion of Yakushev gives your 3rd line a solid advantage however I'd argue that my top pairing is nearly the same advantage going to other way.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Is there a bio somewhere for Ron Ellis because I'd be curious to see some notes on his defensive play. Because his offensive numbers aren't very inspiring.

Pavol Demitra 75.2
Ed Litzenberger 70.8

These two are in no way slouches offensively and since I'm running a more top heavy minute chart their limited offensive output isn't that much of a detriment.

Toews is better offensively than Conroy and to this point their Selke records are quite similar. Yakushev is the only part of your third line that gives you a decisive advantage in third lines, but then gives my second line a larger advantage than if you lined up your lines normally.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Also going deeper into comparing our second pairings

Ted Green -

Norris summary: 3, 7, 9, 13.
All Star voting record: 3rd(1969), 6th(1965), 6th(1968), 10th(1966)

While Green is best known as a nasty, stay at home defenseman, he developed into a good outlet passer and finished 2nd, 2nd, 3rd and 8th in points among defensemen during his career.

Jimmy Thompson
AST Voting Record:
1947-48: 5th (Cup winner)
1948-49: 6th (Cup winner)
1949-50: 6th
1950-51: 3rd (Cup winner)
1951-52: 4th
1952-53: not top-4 (but played in all-star game as non-Cup winner - so 5th - 8th)
1953-54: 6th

Comparable, in peak but there is an edge since Thompson's peak is longer.

Joe Hall Vs Joe Simpson is a little more interesting however

- WCHL 1st All-Star Team (1922, 1923, 1925)
- WCHL 2nd All-Star Team (1924)
- Twice in the top-10 in WCHL goalscoring (4th, 8th)
- Three times top-3 in WCHL assists (2nd, 2nd, 3rd)
- Three times top-10 in WCHL points (2nd, 6th, 7th)
- Four times top-2 in WCHL scoring among defensemen (1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd)
- 4th in points among NHL defensemen (1930)

Bullet Joe has a large quantity of personal accolades and point finishes, Joe Hall has one 10th in assists finish and a 4th and 5th in points amongst D. Joe Hall is a tough and mean SOB, but so is Ted Green. My D is built similarly to your first pairing. One guy can rush the puck or move it up ice with speed, and the other can make a good outlet first pass.

I don't see that large of a difference here at all.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'd love to see a minutes chart if either of you have a chance would really help me compare our teams.

I might work one if I find the time.I can hierarchize it now without the numbers though:

Richard
Lach
-
Phillips
Balderis
Yakushev
Roenick
-
Toews
Kapustin
-
Ellis
-
4th line

This is obviously prone to double shifts and skipped shifts and depends of the flow of the game but this is in importance to the club.

Really need to emphasize how big the difference is between our top pairings.

Gadsby is a legitimate number one defenceman however he is completely overshadowed by Orr.

Well no ****

My top pairing is stacked compared to yours. Both my D are capable of playing nearly half the entire game and Moose will be taking additional shifts with my bottom pairing to help boost his EV minute count. I'd love to see how you plan to contain Orr. Usually the plan is forecheck him heavily and make him rely on his partner to move the puck. Except you're incapable of doing that since Moose is also an excellent skater and great puck mover.

I fail to see how Moose will be able to play half the game.If your plan is to give 30 minutes of ice-time to your #2 defenseman then more power to my offense which is licking it's chops.Orr can play 30 minutes sure, and that's exactly the beauty of having 1st line level players distributed over three lines.

Your D features to solid puck moving defencemen however only Gadsby is known for leading a rush, and my heavy forechecking style will key into Gadsby and force Johnson to move the puck more often. This will limit your D's ability to rush the puck a luxury I can with my top pairing.

Your forechecking won't work that well against a defensive squad as physical as mine.All my defenseman except maybe Kuzkin are very tough, especially Joe Hall who was just a maniac and nasty.By the way Hall could certainly rush the puck (there's a couple of quotes but here's one since I have it bookmarked: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=iSgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4097,1927089&hl=en ) , and Thomson had great first passes.

(the quote about Joe Hall says: "Joe Hall puts some life into the play near the end of the period with a spectacular lone rush all the way down, the only player he didn't beat was Holmes")

Sure the inclusion of Yakushev gives your 3rd line a solid advantage however I'd argue that my top pairing is nearly the same advantage going to other way.

I agree, but I also think my 1st line is clearly better than yours.Maurice Richard is the 2nd best RWers of all-time (or 2nd/3rd if you want to split hairs) who also happen to enjoy scoring in the playoffs.He also has his natural center and Tommy Phillips on the other side who could be argued to somehow ressemble Toe Blake as a player (I understand there's a difference).Cashman is out of place big time, and I don't even feel he's that useful given Forsberg and Geoffrion are not soft players.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I have a hard time comparing our 3rd pairings but my players did play in the best league in the world and have a couple top 10 finishes in All Star Voting and Norris Voting. So I agree that I most likely have an advantage there.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Toews is better offensively than Conroy and to this point their Selke records are quite similar.

So now this is similar?

Conroy : 2,3,5,12,12
Toews:1,2,3,4,6

I feel like actually Toews selke record is clearly ahead.

Yakushev is the only part of your third line that gives you a decisive advantage in third lines, but then gives my second line a larger advantage than if you lined up your lines normally.

Toews is clearly a better player than Conroy.Toews has a smythe and a stronger playoff resume not to mention Olympic resume.I see no possible way to see Conroy as anything less than weaker than Toews.

Even with Yakushev out of my 2nd line replaced with Kapustin the difference of our 2nd line is not really that big.Not even close to the difference in our 1st and 3rd line at least.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I have a hard time comparing our 3rd pairings but my players did play in the best league in the world and have a couple top 10 finishes in All Star Voting and Norris Voting. So I agree that I most likely have an advantage there.

Fair enough.But I don't see neither of our pairing being that weak or that good.The series is not in play via this comparison.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I fail to see how Moose will be able to play half the game.If your plan is to give 30 minutes of ice-time to your #2 defenseman then more power to my offense which is licking it's chops.Orr can play 30 minutes sure, and that's exactly the beauty of having 1st line level players distributed over three lines.


I agree, but I also think my 1st line is clearly better than yours.Maurice Richard is the 2nd best RWers of all-time (or 2nd/3rd if you want to split hairs) who also happen to enjoy scoring in the playoffs.He also has his natural center and Tommy Phillips on the other side who could be argued to somehow ressemble Toe Blake as a player (I understand there's a difference).Cashman is out of place big time, and I don't even feel he's that useful given Forsberg and Geoffrion are not soft players.

Well Moose is only playing 24 minutes and those who reviewed my team agree my minutes chart is adequate so he's playing an appropriate amount.

3 Maurice Richard 105.7
10 Bernie Geoffrion 91.4

Definite edge there to Rocket no disagreement there,

11 Elmer Lach* 95.4
17 Peter Forsberg 90.9

Lach was a wartime star and and had his numbers inflated by playing with the Rocket while Forsberg got to play with Kamensky and C.Lemieux. I think this is a clear edge to Forsberg in this matchup combined perhaps a small edge to Lach - Rocket vs Forsberg - Boom Boom.

I agree Cashman is miscast in his role and is probably my biggest regret of this draft, but since Hart's offensive strategy revolves around a speedy and strong forecheck Cashman will out there to help dig even more for this duo and keep players on honest around my stars.

Philips is clearly better than Cashman no contest, it's not even close.

Your top line is better for sure no disagreement, but I don't see the gap nearly as big as the gap between our top pairings.

So now this is similar?

Conroy : 2,3,5,12,12
Toews:1,2,3,4,6

I feel like actually Toews selke record is clearly ahead.

Toews is clearly a better player than Conroy.Toews has a smythe and a stronger playoff resume not to mention Olympic resume.I see no possible way to see Conroy as anything less than weaker than Toews.

You don't believe that currently the Selke is the best two way forward award, whichever center scores the most point while being positive defensively wins it?

Conroy 3rd finish - Behind Lehtinen and Peca
Conroy 5th finish - Behind Lehtinen, Arvedson, Peca and Yzerman
Conroy 2nd finish - Beind Peca

Lehtinen and Peca are clearly better defensively than Toews or anyone Toews competes against except maybe Bergeron and Datsyuk.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Also going deeper into comparing our second pairings

Ted Green -

Norris summary: 3, 7, 9, 13.
All Star voting record: 3rd(1969), 6th(1965), 6th(1968), 10th(1966)



Jimmy Thompson
AST Voting Record:
1947-48: 5th (Cup winner)
1948-49: 6th (Cup winner)
1949-50: 6th
1950-51: 3rd (Cup winner)
1951-52: 4th
1952-53: not top-4 (but played in all-star game as non-Cup winner - so 5th - 8th)
1953-54: 6th

Comparable, in peak but there is an edge since Thompson's peak is longer.

The difference in the pairing is clearly Thomson.Thomson was a #1 defenseman on 3 cup winners and spent seven consecutive season as a top 6 defenseman.It's true that for his cup wins he was placed in a good spot but he still did his part along with Mortson.I don't feel this is particularly close between he and Ted Green.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Overall good match-up.I think my offensive firepower at the forward position is much better than yours, true you have Orr but I also have a good offensive defenseman in Gadsby to support my forward superiority at offense.My offense is dangerous and distributed over 3 lines, and it will be hard to put Orr against the 3 of those.

LA's strenght is the first pairing and goaltending.Kenora's strenght is offensive depth, character and one of the strongest group of wingers with four legit 1st line wingers in the squad.Maurice Richard is also one of the cluthiest player of all-time and he plays with his usual center Elmer Lach (R.I.P.).

Best of luck to everyone involved.

Still Gadsby is no Orr, Orr is the best offensive defenseman of all time. Sure you've got a good one but I have the best.

My goaltender is clearly better as you said and will be more likely to steal me some games, you build teams from the net out.

- 4 Legit first line wingers? Richard, Philips, Yakushev and who?

- Boom Boom is clutch as well don't forget.

 

[BenchBrawl]

You don't believe that currently the Selke is the best two way forward award, whichever center scores the most point while being positive defensively wins it?

Conroy 3rd finish - Behind Lehtinen and Peca
Conroy 5th finish - Behind Lehtinen, Arvedson, Peca and Yzerman
Conroy 2nd finish - Beind Peca

Lehtinen and Peca are clearly better defensively than Toews or anyone Toews competes against except maybe Bergeron and Datsyuk.

Ok so Peca and Lehtinen are better than Toews defensively , and are better than his competition except Datsyuk and Bergeron.

Let's take Peca,Lehtinen,Bergeron and Datsyuk out, we have:

Conroy: 1st,1st,3rd,10th,11th
ToewsL 1st,2nd,2nd,3rd,4th

I still think these two seasons of superiority for Toews counts for a lot.That is without considering the overall accomplishments of Toews as an hockey player, which are plenty compared to Conroy.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Still Gadsby is no Orr, Orr is the best offensive defenseman of all time. Sure you've got a good one but I have the best.

My goaltender is clearly better as you said and will be more likely to steal me some games, you build teams from the net out.

- 4 Legit first line wingers? Richard, Philips, Yakushev and who?

- Boom Boom is clutch as well don't forget.

BoomBoom is clutch but Maurice Richard is in competition for the cluthiest player of all-time.

The 4th legit 1st liner is Balderis.Very low-end granted but I think he's one of the 32 best RWers of all-time.My vision is shared by enough people that he was one of the 32 best RWers voted in the Winger project at least so I'm not making a provocative out-of-the-blue statement.

And yeah, Orr is better than Gadsby.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Well Moose is only playing 24 minutes and those who reviewed my team agree my minutes chart is adequate so he's playing an appropriate amount.

Ok but 24 minutes isn't half the game, which is what you implied earlier.Even if you don't take the expression literally, I still wouldn't include 24 minutes as qualifying.More like 26-27 +.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I can also play Phillips with Toews and Ellis for a more defensive minded squad if needed and put Yakushev with Lach and Richard which actually boost the defensive abilities of my 3rd line as well as boosting the offensive abilities of my 1st line.

A Phillips-Toews-Ellis third line would be a killer shut down line with some counterattack ability.

 

[BenchBrawl]

A Phillips-Toews-Ellis third line would be a killer shut down line with some counterattack ability.

It will happen if necessary.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Ok so Peca and Lehtinen are better than Toews defensively , and are better than his competition except Datsyuk and Bergeron.

Let's take Peca,Lehtinen,Bergeron and Datsyuk out, we have:

Conroy: 1st,1st,3rd,10th,11th
ToewsL 1st,2nd,2nd,3rd,4th

I still think these two seasons of superiority for Toews counts for a lot.That is without considering the overall accomplishments of Toews as an hockey player, which are plenty compared to Conroy.

All I'm arguing in favour of Conroy is that Toews doesn't blow him out of the water.

Also Toews offensive resume is inflated by some pretty significant power play production, while Conroy is a notable even strength scorer.

Career Wise Toews has 141 PPP and 365 ESP 27.8% of his points come from PP time, which he isn't getting on your team.

Career Wise Conroy has only 95 PPP and 447 ESP and only 17.5% of his points come from PP time

Without looking too deep into their rosters, I think Toews has had a far better supporting cast in Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith and Seabrook. Conroy played on some good teams but not with their top players like Toews.

Toews does have better finishes and is definitely better no contest just he doesn't clobber Conroy who is being asked to be a defensive presence for two solid offensive contributors.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Just to summarize what we've come too right now

First Line

Kenora >(>) Los Angeles

Second Line (This will be discussed later by me)

Kenora < Los Angeles

Third Line

Kenora >> Los Angeles

Fourth Line

Kenora = Los Angeles

1st Pairing

Kenora << Los Angeles

2nd Pairing

Kenora > Los Angeles

3rd Pairing

Kenora < Los Angeles

Goaltending

Kenora << Los Angeles

You have better First and Third Lines, while my D core as a whole is far better and I just have a flat out better goaltender.

 

[ResilientBeast]

If you'd rather look at it positionally

Center

Kenora < Los Angeles

Right Wing

Kenora > Los Angeles

Left Wing

Kenora >> Los Angeles

Defense

Kenora (<)< Los Angeles

Goaltending

Kenora << Los Angeles

 

[BenchBrawl]

If you'd rather look at it positionally

Right Wing

Kenora = Los Angeles

ahah no way in hell.My RWer position is stronger.

I have to leave for the restaurent now I'll be back later.

Edit: Im also not the biggest fan of this method of comparison nowadays, it leaves too much out

 

[ResilientBeast]

ahah no way in hell.My RWer position is stronger.

I have to leave for the restaurent now I'll be back later.

Ignoring our fourth lines since we agree they don't make or break this matchup

1st RW

Richard > Geoffrion

No arguments, but the gap isn't as crazy big as you seem to think

2nd RW

Balderis >Morris

- Stanley Cup (1917)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1920, 1924)
- PCHA First All-Star Team (1916, 1917, 1918, 1919, 1922)
- PCHA Second All-Star Team (1921, 1923)
- Top-10 in PCHA Goals 7 times (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th)
- Top-10 in PCHA Assists 6 times (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 6th)
- Top-10 in PCHA Points 7 times (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 7th)
- 6th in goals, 10th in assists, 7th in points in his one WCHL season (1924)
- Stanley Cup scoring leader (1917)
- 2nd in playoff scoring behind Howie Morenz (1924)

vs

Soviet League Champion: 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980 - [CSKA]
Soviet League 1st Team all-star: 1977
Soviet League MVP: 1977
Soviet League leading scorer: 1977, 1983

World Champion: 1978, 1979, 1983
World Championship 1st Team all-star: 1977
World Championship Best Forward: 1977
World Championship leading goalscorer: 1978


Morris has stronger recognition in perhaps a weaker league (don't know how to compare Soviet to PCHA) Maybe someone else could enlighten me, but I don't see the difference between them. If anything they are equal (maybe) and sure Balderis was voted onto the best wingers list, but Morris also played center and is primarily center, but can play wing.

3rd RW

Ellis < Litzenberger

Ellis only has a second place calder finish against this Calder winner, who has 2 top 7 Hart finishes 4 times top 10 in goals and 3 times top 10 in points. All while being an excellent leader and defensively neutral. This is a landslide victory for Litzenberger

Edit : more research done, I underrated Balderis amended my post accordingly